Osama bin Laden dead

[iyamwutiam]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Unfortunately the facts support Don's version more than anything else. The US had no qualms publicly hanging Saddam Hussein to see all over the world. In addition -I doubt very much with the glorious history of bombing many MANY nations into large cemeteries (Vietnam/Laos/Iraq/Afghanistan, etc) -that they have any 'feelings' regarding the sanctity and courtesy of 'burial'.

No doubt -after almost 11 years of 'supposedly' evading the greatest military and intelligence force (along with their innumerable ex-colonialist and satraps (Iraq/Pakistan/Saudi Arabia/Bahrain/ formerly Egypt) that they were unable to locate one man -especially given their expertise in murder and torture and corruption honed by hunting down billionaire drug lords such as Pablo Escobar. Seriously--?

This is serving to distract. For what exactly --?

But I have no doubt that Bin Laden has been dead for years -http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8120236576648647371#

Her rather untimely and convenient demise allowign for the best of both worlds. Mainly the outcome of placing her notorious Mr. 10% husband as titular head and removing any legitimate leadership at the same time closing her big mouth regarding the so-called search for Bin Laden.

And quite frankly I find it incredulous that intact passports from airplanes which simultaneously destroyed 3 buildings with admirable neatness and no collateral damage -were 'conveniently' available to simplify the case of the identity of the perpetrators.

[WildspitzE]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

http://www.nytimes.com/

Change anything?


Didn't think so.

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. " -- FDR

OBL was living in a Pakistani McMansion in the middle of a Pakistani military laden city. Sounds to me like a fruit being cultivated for consumption at an opportune time. Will this lead to the US declaring a "victory" and pulling out? Thereby also reducing the borrowed USD being spent? Sounds like two of the major issues that will come up in the elections next year.

Regardless, I would be so happy to see the boys come back home and collateral damage end.

[chr5648]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

The Sheeple's Hero

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...to-shave-beard

Click link for photo

After bin Laden death, middle school teacher finally free to shave beard

By Liz Goodwin

Plenty of Americans are rejoicing over the death of Osama bin Laden, but there's probably just one out there who has the specific cause for celebration that middle school science teacher Gary Weddle does. Weddle, who lives in Ephrata, Wash., vowed a decade ago to refrain from shaving until bin Laden was killed or captured. Last night, he wept openly because he was finally able to shave his ZZ Top-style beard.

Weddle originally figured he'd be keeping the new facial hair for no more than a month or two. Ten years later, his untrimmed beard still hung from his face like an albatross.

"I spent my first five minutes crying and then I couldn't get it off fast enough," Weddle told the Capital Press's Dan Wheat, who originally broke the story in 2002 about the hirsute 50-year-old's vow.

"He was working in his garden at home Sunday evening when a teaching colleague from Ephrata, Missy Beierman, called at 7:48 p.m. and told him bin Laden was dead," Wheat reports. "The Weddles were skeptical. Over the years, people had called saying the same thing, as jokes."

But as soon as the realization sunk in that bin Laden really was dead, Weddle began frantically cutting, and then shaving, his beard, which he had not even trimmed since the 2001 attacks. Friends and neighbors made their way over to watch Weddle in the process of shedding his symbolic beard.

"He looks 10 years younger," Weddle's wife, Donita, said. "It's a very happy moment for us. It's a very happy moment for the whole nation."

According to NWCN, the principal at Weddle's Ephrata, Washington middle school made a special announcement today to honor him in front of the school:

For 3,454 days Mr. Weddle kept his word, faithful and true. He endured ridicule, jokes and no doubt people telling him that his was a lost cause. On top of that he watched daily news reports that cast doubt weather Osama Bin Laden was even still alive, or if dead his body would never be recovered. In which case, to be true to his word Mr. Weddle would have to never shave again for the rest of his life. Mr. Weddle has taught us all an important lesson in faith, patriotism and endurance. Would any of us have put ourselves on the line in such a way? It is likely no one else in the entire world had taken such a vow.

Weddle said in 2003: "If they want to shave it off my body in the coffin, they can, but I'm going to hang onto it ... I'm not going to forget and I'm not going to let anyone forget." You can read Wheat's story on Weddle here and see what he looks like without the beard here.

(Photo of Weddle from The Daily Astorian, courtesy of Donita Weddle)

[lektrode]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way. " -- FDR

OBL was living in a Pakistani McMansion in the middle of a Pakistani military laden city. Sounds to me like a fruit being cultivated for consumption at an opportune time. Will this lead to the US declaring a "victory" and pulling out? Thereby also reducing the borrowed USD being spent? Sounds like two of the major issues that will come up in the elections next year.

Regardless, I would be so happy to see the boys come back home and collateral damage end.

+1
STRONG SECOND to the sentiment
dont see any reason whatsoever to stay in afghanistan, tho getting the hell outa there plays right into 'their plan', what/how exactly do we 'win' anything further by being there, or at any other overseas base for that matter, that wont be immed offset by shutting down the gusher of borrowed trillions that seems to me equals a far graver danger to our future than _anything_ OBL's bunch of whackos could throw at us - and hey! leave em with this thot: "if we have to return, it WONT be with the army/boots on the ground"

[lektrode]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

shows us The Sheeple's Hero

Weddle said in 2003: "If they want to shave it off my body in the coffin, they can, but I'm going to hang onto it ... I'm not going to forget and I'm not going to let anyone forget." You can read Wheat's story on Weddle here and see what he looks like without the beard here.

agree totally: and SHOW THE WTC BUILDINGS COMING DOWN _EVERY_ 11SEPT on _every_ TV channel as a reminder.

[chr5648]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

That, and I just read that it is traditional among most Muslims that the body of the deceased must be buried within one day of death.

Other high profile muslims such as husseins sons were not buried within the 1 day prescribed time frame. At least show us a video of the burial aka throwing the body overboard. Its almost as if they want to feed conspiracy theories.

[flintlock]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Other high profile muslims such as husseins sons were not buried within the 1 day prescribed time frame. At least show us a video of the burial aka throwing the body overboard. Its almost as if they want to feed conspiracy theories.

On that I can agree. Perhaps a video or some kind of convincing evidence will come out in a few days/weeks. I admit it makes it look like a conspiracy, but in this case, I don't think that is the case.

The nephew of a friend of my Mom's was one of the SEALS involved apparently. I'll tell her to ask him.

[flintlock]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Actually a comment needs to be made about how Bad the Pakistani Intelligence/MIlitary/Government is at playing 'Where's Waldo".

Imaghine for a moment a bit of revisionist history:

It's 1955

We are in West Point, New York in the US or Sandhurst, Berkshire in the UK

And the Russians find Adolph Hitler hiding amongst a relatively small community literally surrounded by thousands of current and prior service US and UK soldiers, respectively.

Not a good look is it?

IF Bin Laden was dead for years(as the birthers/"deaders" would have you think) would it make sense to so seriously embarrass Pakistan?

The US entered Pakistan without the operational cooperation/knowledge of Pakistani intelligence/military/government and killed Bin Laden within 2km of Pakistan's version of West Point/Sandhurst.

Pakistan has just been "pantsed" in front of the entire world.

IF Pakistan had ANY involvement in this(which I seriously doubt) the price would have to be insanely high(Afghanistan?).

Speaking of Afghanistan......talk about an opportunity to leverage this for all it's worth.....I doubt Bin Laden will play THAT heavily in the 2012 election.....but an opportunity to draw down Afghanistan mission and declare Mission Accomplished(also prematurely)! would play well in 2012.

It could also be a signal for a seismic and strategic shift away from Pakistan and towards a more natural alignment with India.

Cold War 2, and Pakistan is NOT a US ally.....but an ally of China.

Pakistan's days of playing all sides to it's benefit are quickly ending(I sincerely hope).

Pakistan's ISI media ops folks will be working overtime to spin this....but how can you spin to the world just an incredibly embarrassing crisis?

BIG CHANGES AHEAD.

I too, sincerely hope Pakistan's days of playing us for fools are soon over. I never thought we were getting our money's worth there.

I can't help but believe at least some faction in Pakistan's government or military knew about Bin Ladens whereabouts. A big building that stood out from others apparently. That's a hiding place? Right next to a Military complex? Why was he not in some mountain tribal region mostly off limits to the Pakistan military, unless he felt so secure he had nothing to fear from the military surrounding him. Also explains the lack of any serious security with him.

Or perhaps he was just a has-been who didn't rate a large security force?

Either way, the US needs to re-evaluate who its "friends" are. And not just in that region.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Meanwhile, back in Afghanistan…

“Operation Enduring (suffer patiently?) Freedom” is the deployment of 140,000 US-led troops in Afghanistan. Of those, 100,000 are Americans. In December, President Obama approved an additional 30,000 troops. The operation is now over nine years old, longer than the Soviet Union’s occupation.

1.) US Says Bin Laden's Death Does Not End Afghan War
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011...ef=global-home

2.) “The Americans in comparison, while fighting largely ethnic Pashtun Taliban militants, face a fragmented social landscape, which has made it difficult for troops to distinguish the enemy.”

"The Russians had a far greater political sophistication.... I think we'll see a lot of confusion the closer we get to 2014 because the Americans just don't have the cultural understanding they need to properly negotiate an exit."

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...096143/1/.html


When Ayn Rand and the Chicago boys spearheaded the push for an all volunteer army, they dismissed objections that it would “stimulate foreign adventures.” Late in life, Milton Friedman admitted his mistake.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

I too, sincerely hope Pakistan's days of playing us for fools are soon over. I never thought we were getting our money's worth there.

I can't help but believe at least some faction in Pakistan's government or military knew about Bin Ladens whereabouts. A big building that stood out from others apparently. That's a hiding place? Right next to a Military complex? Why was he not in some mountain tribal region mostly off limits to the Pakistan military, unless he felt so secure he had nothing to fear from the military surrounding him. Also explains the lack of any serious security with him.

Or perhaps he was just a has-been who didn't rate a large security force?

Either way, the US needs to re-evaluate who its "friends" are. And not just in that region.

A couple additional points:

Due to the internal security threats Pakistan suffers the highly militarized area/cantonment would have the following features:

Fixed/permanent roadblocks-checkpoints

Roving/snap checkpoints

All construction(including residential as many residents in the area are high level military retirees) would be approved/veted by military/security forces.

All residences and residents would be randomly spot checked to help prevent the development of a base of operations for attacks against military targets like the Pakistan Military Academy.

I'd bet everything I own senior leadership in the Pakistani Army, ISI, and possibly government not only KNEW about this.....but clearly supported harboring OBL in a near overt fashion.

The idea this was "staged" is insane.

IF that were the case, there is NO way in HELL the Pakistanis would allow it to happen i such an incredibly embarrassing way.

The Pakistanis aren't the Keystone Cops.....they have 30 years experience milking the US, China, Saudi, India, and everyone else for every last real or political penny.

NO WAY was this a staged setup.

Pakistan scrambled fighters to search/intercept for the helos in the op......that is not the action of a nation in the loop...or anywhere near it.

My personal opinion...but I'm stunned at a few of the posts here on iTulip:

Finance and economic: A+

Security and geopolitics: C-

[Ghent12]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Unfortunately the facts support Don's version more than anything else. The US had no qualms publicly hanging Saddam Hussein to see all over the world. In addition -I doubt very much with the glorious history of bombing many MANY nations into large cemeteries (Vietnam/Laos/Iraq/Afghanistan, etc) -that they have any 'feelings' regarding the sanctity and courtesy of 'burial'.

Are you seriously trying to compare Saddam Hussein to Osama Bin Laden? You can't possibly be serious. I can't understand why you would try to compare post-capture treatment of a regional dictator to that of the would-be caliphate, or regional folk hero, or whatever status you apply to Osama Bin Laden. Complete apples to oranges comparison, unless of course you're one of those people that think Saddam had something to do with the attacks on September 11th.

And quite frankly I find it incredulous that intact passports from airplanes which simultaneously destroyed 3 buildings with admirable neatness and no collateral damage -were 'conveniently' available to simplify the case of the identity of the perpetrators.

Your view is insane and lacks any sort of application of critical thought, and I suspect that you will never relinquish it in spite of any contrary revelation. All I will begin with is to say that your comment about "admirable neatness and no collateral damage" is completely erroneous.

[Ghent12]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

Other high profile muslims such as husseins sons were not buried within the 1 day prescribed time frame. At least show us a video of the burial aka throwing the body overboard. Its almost as if they want to feed conspiracy theories.

"High profile muslims such as Hussein's sons," really? I suspect that you have no idea what Osama Bin Laden represents to the average Muslim. I don't claim to know everything, but I would place significant money that OBL is leagues ahead of essentially every leader and their family (except perhaps one's own leader) in the esteem of the average Muslim.

[bpr]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

"High profile muslims such as Hussein's sons," really? I suspect that you have no idea what Osama Bin Laden represents to the average Muslim. I don't claim to know everything, but I would place significant money that OBL is leagues ahead of essentially every leader and their family (except perhaps one's own leader) in the esteem of the average Muslim.

I don't know everything, but this is a bit too generalized.

The "average Muslim?" That's like saying the "average" Christian or the "average" Jew.

If you're talking about radical fundamentalists, particularly in the Middle East, you may have a point. But there are plenty of Muslims that aren't from that part of the world (or aren't radical fundamentalists) and don't have that part of the world's interests at heart. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world, and I don't think Bin Laden got too many free night stays there.

Just as an experiment, I ran Gaddafi, Mubarak, and Bin Laden in Arabic through Google trends in 2010 (to filter out the uprising news), and Mubarak came out head and shoulders above the others:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=معمر+...te=2010&sort=1

I was surprised, but after some thought this is to be expected, since Egypt has the highest internet penetration and he was president there.

But look at the "regions" section and you see that the red bar (Mubarak) was also the most highly searched of the three in every country listed, including Syria, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. That's true going back to 2004, as far as Google data shows.

Not necessarily scientific, but it gives you a good sense of the level of interest. In any case, just because Osama Bin Laden is the only Muslim from the Arabic world that most Westerners have ever heard of doesn't mean he's "leagues ahead" of every other Arabic Muslim leader in the hearts of every Muslim.

[bpr]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

You obviously have no American friends, or only a very select few. Ask any American in their 20's what their FB newsfeed looks like, and you'll find something not dissimilar to what you facetiously call "spontaneous" crowds. There is literally no reason whatsoever to doubt the authenticity of those crowds.

This doesn't reek of psyops at all. There is a very remote possibility that it was, and that possibility will surely give way to the creation of "Deaders" which will become another fringe group of gullible people willing to believe the opposite of "the official story" on anything. You seem to be on the forefront of this--maybe you should found some websites and demand "the Truth!" Don't let pesky facts like helicopters get in your way though.

I was listening to the radio last night and they were broadcasting the chants from the White House and my first thoughts were right in line with Don's: they scared these people up and paid them or something to stage a "patriotic moment" for the media.

Today I logged into my Facebook account for work and saw updates from a friend in DC last night: "Going to the White House!" Whole dorms emptying into the streets, just the demographic you're talking about: a grad student in his twenties.

[Shakespear]

Re: Osama bin Laden dead

We in the "internet space" will never be sure if our adding up of "facts" is correct. That is for certain.

OBL is from the world of smoke-and-mirrors. Dialysis is mentioned. Heck, so what was stopping OBL from getting a kidney donation from his million man army. OK, he would be afraid to go under the knife. Then the option is death or driving around with dialysis machinery. Why no high resolution image of OBL? So that the "40 thieves " couldn't pray to it? It all smells like like the vanishing Nazis after the WWII who took us to the Moon and not one of the sheep realized it until many many moons later.

How can we be sure that the person snatched was OBL? Cann't. The snatch may have been of his double or perhaps some other high level Ali Baba. Why not? In the land of smoke-and-mirrors all is possible.

For me Benezir Bhutto's slip of the tongue on the Frost program is the best clue that the guy was dead long ago. She had just avoided an assassination and was days away from being finally done in. No reason to lie, but again (as in the land of smoke-and-mirrors) perhaps others lied to her.