Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Clue you answered a lot of Davids questions in your post so i dont have to. Again I don't advocate a pure gold standard and obviously you can issue more certificates than their is gold but in a modern society that will be found out quite soon and corrective action taken. This was not the case in say Roman times when they began putting less and less gold in each batch of specie they created.

I'd say that we have plenty of laws and institutions theoretically chartered with not abusing fiat.

Why do you expect the same laws and theoretical institutions/charters to not be violated in the case of a gold standard with certificates?

I strongly suggest you look more closely at the many games the US played prior to Nixon closing the gold window - even from a fully 'legal' basis there are all sorts of ways by which abuse can (and did) occur.

My view is if ultimately we need functioning institutions actually performing according to their charter, as opposed to bankrolling FIRE, frankly it isn't fiat that's the basic problem.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

This idea about white people running around the world killing non whites is ridiculous. Yes of course everyone back in the day fought for land and resources but not because they viewed the others in the prism of race. Did the Romans care if you were white? heck no they enslaved all of Europe and those people were white just like the Romans. Individuals really need to understand history. If you are not part of a certain ethnic or cultural group than you were hated no matter what color your skin was.

Whites are the only population to travel all over the world and intermarry with whatever culture they encountered. For every negative thing you think a white person supposedly did due to the color of their skin and the other persons skin I can think of 100 positives white people created for the world.

Once you step back and stop seeing everything through the prism of race you will realize that individuals in the 1600's were not trying to take over south america because the indians were tan skinned, that is such a ludicrous claim. The idea of skin color to denote race and segragation didnt even enter the minds of most writers until the 1800s even though there were slaves in America. Slavery was as old as prostitution in world history and the Europeans did not take the Africans from Africa because they were black. They took them because they had superior weapons and could take them by force just like what was done to them by others for centuries and because the native Indians were dying out due to the diseases brought over by the Europeans.

Lets play a game. Say a Frenchman of white descent kills a Danish man who is white because he dislikes his culture, language and personality. The immediate thought process for everyone that views the murder would be "wow what a tragedy, I cant believe he killed that Danish guy because he didnt like him due to X factor"

Now suppose a Frenchman who is white kills a Angolan man who is black because he dislikes his culture, language and personality. The immediate thought process for everything white or black that views the murder would be " wow that racist Frenchman killed the Angolan because he was Xenophobic and hated the black Angolans in his country"

The reason we think this way? Because we have been conditioned to think this way in our society over the last 70 years. It is such a farce I cannot believe others do not see it.

Deep down you know you think this way and I catch myself immediately going to these thoughts as well but then my rational thoughts enter my mind. Most people think anytime a white person demeans a non white or calls them ahole or says anything negative to them its because they are racist. Most people also think that anytime a black person acts out agaisnt a white person its because they are a victim and are only lashing out because the way they have been supposedly mistreated.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Of course games are played with a gold standard. And please stop saying that I advocate for a gold standard when I don't but some form of sound money is needed. A certain percent of dollars for X amount of gold in an international exchange etc.

You obviously have not read all the cases of Fiat money in history that lead to collapse?
The Song Dynasty in China was the first to issue paper money, jiaozi, around the 10th century AD. Although the notes were valued at a certain exchange rate for gold, silver, or silk, conversion was never allowed in practice. The notes were initially to be redeemed after three years' service, to be replaced by new notes for a 3% service charge, but, as more of them were printed without notes being retired, inflation became evident. The government made several attempts to support the paper by demanding taxes partly in currency and making other laws, but the damage had been done, and the notes fell out of favor.^[8]
The successive Yuan Dynasty was the first dynasty in China to use paper currency as the predominant circulating medium. The founder of the Yuan Dynasty, Kublai Khan, issued paper money known as Chao in his reign. The original notes during the Yuan Dynasty were restricted in area and duration as in the Song Dynasty.
However, in the later course of the dynasty, facing massive shortages of specie to fund their ruling in China, the Yuan Dynasty began printing paper money without restrictions on duration. This eventually caused hyperinflation. By 1455, in an effort to rein in economic expansion and end hyperinflation, the new Ming Dynasty ended the use of paper money.

[lektrode]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

ok - some more on ron paul - just ran into this one... and dunno whether to think its just more of the usual suspects trying to make him look... uh... 'wierd' and/or too far out of the 'mainstream' to be a serious contender...

Do CFL lights suck? 'Save the light bulb' campaign has Ron Paul on board

February 25, 2011 | Iris Kuo (hey! is this anybody we know?)


http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/25/li...cent-ron-paul/

It’s surprising to see people get worked up about light bulbs. But the country’s government-mandated shift to more energy-efficient lighting is raising the ire of conservatives. Congressman Ron Paul, in some circles considered the “spiritual father of the Tea Party,” isn’t too happy with the U.S. mandate that light bulbs become 30 percent more efficient by 2012 to 2014, phasing in a set of standards that will arguably ban incandescent light bulbs in favor of more energy-efficient options like compact fluorescent bulbs (CFLs), halogen and LED lighting. Paul, Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.) along with 19 other Republican members of Congress, have proposed legislation to repeal the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, according to USA Today.
The legislation was signed into law in 2007 by President Bush.
“I don’t think CFLs are going to wind up saving that much energy and they’re certainly much more harmful to public health,” said Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas) in an interview with the WSJ’s Opinion Journal, referring to mercury inside CFLs and the higher price tags. “I don’t think the country wants Congress to tell them what kind of light bulb to use.”
Some have argued that the small amounts of mercury inside CFLs, if they break, do not pose a health danger. The EPA has spoken in the past about the need to recycle CFLs to keep the mercury out of landfills; it has also argued that CFLs actually emit less mercury because they use less energy from coal-burning plants, which emit large amounts of mercury into the air.
If you wondered what Republican control of the House means for cleantech, then this is a good case to consider. The argument from politicians and certain constituents seems to be that they disagree with government limitation of their energy choices and argue that CFLs can cause health problems like headaches. There’s been similar types of antagonistic sentiment over smart meter rollouts and government support for research and implementation of renewables. If the “let me choose my own energy” side wins, though, it could slow down efforts to bring the country closer to President Obama’s goal of 80 percent renewable energy by 2035.
One political activist site, Freedom Action, released a statement calling the legislation an “outrageous ban” and “outrageous government limitation on consumer choice and intrusion into the home of every American.”

A petition to support undoing the ban can be viewed online at FreeOurLight.org. Freedom Action even created a (surely intentionally?) hilarious video, below, that shows a man buying light bulbs off an illicit “dealer” on the street. “Now that’s what I’m talking about,” he says as a man pimping cigarettes and plastic bags produces an Edison bulb out of his pocket. He then makes the buyer take a sip of Coca-Cola to prove he’s “not a cop.” The video ends ominously: “Don’t let this be America’s future.”
Not everyone knows about efficiency legislation that will effectively phase out incandescent light bulbs, although Ikea said in January it will no longer sell them.
A survey conducted by Harris Interactive this year found that 61 percent of Americans aren’t aware of this legislation. A Wall Street Journal editorial from 2009 argued that CFLs aren’t advanced enough to completely replace incandescents. LED makers have seen technological improvements and price drops over the past few years. Companies like Bridgelux say there’s increasing demand for LED solutions in retail settings, where lights are on for 16 to 24 hours and companies are looking for ways to trim their electricity bills and environmental footprint.
Is this campaign a political ploy, or do you want to see the Edison light bulb stay? Leave your thoughts in the comments below.

and just fer kicks, check this out:



along with the http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/25/li...paul/#comments

O&BTW dave - we've grounded (sparked) this one up before:
over on Rant n RAVE: http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...led+lightbulbs

tho it seemed like it generated more heat than light, it was a very interesting discussion... (and personally, still cant understand what this dustup is all about = to the point of insanity the arguments on both sides of a SIMPLE issue:
do we want to use (waste) less electricity and get MORE out of what gets burnt, or dont we? (mr paul seems 'kinda wierd' indeed, on this one, IMHO - just sayin....)

O&BTW again - it wasnt until just recently i finally figured out what somebody (T, ?) meant when he commented on something like 'thread inflation' in my direction - NOW eye know what he meant - and will try to keep my posts connected to existing threads - mahalo T, sometimes i'm a bit slow on the uptake.

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

You obviously have not read all the cases of Fiat money in history that lead to collapse?

All cases of everything in history lead to collapse.

Show me a single society which has survived without radical changes even in the last 500 years.

The idea of skin color to denote race and segragation didnt even enter the minds of most writers until the 1800s even though there were slaves in America.

Segregation didn't exist simply because black people were slaves and white people weren't. Segregation only occurred when black people were legislated as being equal to whites, whereupon portions of the United States attempted to continue the previous 2 class system under a different name.

As for skin color denoting race only in the 1800s - this is utterly false.

Ever read Othello? That was written in the 1600s, and the black person was Moorish.

What about the Curse of Ham?

[marvenger]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Anarchist can be a confusing word. Young punks running wild who identify themselves as anarchists get the most attention and hence this is what the general public thinks anarchism means.

I just think of anarchism as suspicion of the legitimacy of power and actively questioning it. It doesn't have to mean running wild with no rules. Chomsky is an anarchist who believes in a highly organised society, but an egalitarian one, one where when common people dont want to fight wars all over the world they are listened to. The ever present concern is legitimacy. No one has come up with the perfect society, so I think questioning the legitimacy of authority is the key common aspect of the various froms of anarchism. For this reason I think it has a lot in common with religious texts such as the new testament, that point to the inverse relationship between power and privilege, and truth and justice. Obviously its not going to be the top that is pointing out these imbalances, and as was realised a long time ago, an empire doesn't have to be attacked from outside forces to cumble; Babylon fell without an enemy at the gate.

[Raz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Bondage... Awakening... Faith...Courage...Responsibility...
Frugality...Prosperity...Sensuality...Sloth...Comp lacency...
Apathy...Dependency...


...back into Bondage.

[marvenger]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

a wise man once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result.

[charliebrown]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

buying gold in the open market is kind of a solution.

There is the problem with the tax code being blind to inflation.
And since gold is not the unit of account, things change wildly when priced in gold. (or maybe I am not seeing clearly)
It would be hard to run a thin household budget while holding money in gold instead of a savings account.

As long as there are no men of integrity and intelligence in control any monetary system it has its flaws.

[lektrode]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

yeah, but once ya find something that 'works', why mess around with it...

[SamAdams]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Quick glance of this thread revealed a few misconceptions about Paul:

1. "Return to gold standard would be a disaster" - Paul does not advocate a "return to the gold standard" as detractors are describing. Instead he wants the market to create what is deemed currency worthy. He wants to legalize gold as something that can be used, not make the feds designate it as THE currency. That will be just as open to manipulation as any other centrally controlled, cartelized, money system http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/gol...-ron-paul.html

2. "would not support Alt energies" - we have had a DOE for over 30 years to supposedly remove us from dependency on oil. It has supported numerous alt energies. It has been a complete failure. Paul would wish to eliminate all of these subsidies. How about, as Paul supports, we pull out of Iraq, Iran et al completely and stop providing naval security for oil companies? That would raise the price of oil and free up private investment for all kinds of alternative energies that would be in demand as the price of oil escalates. Certainly I think it is worth a shot as the path we are on now is certainly going to fail and prevent alternatives from being developed until it is too late.

3. Racist stuff? Other's have addressed this. Paul however seems to be the only candidate capable of getting a nomination that is not willing to bomb/detain brown people at the will of the executive branch or imprison them for possessing so-called illegal plants.

4. Campaign finance - this system is already broken regardless of corporate ability to finance politicans- how about we eliminate corporate protections and also federal programs that subsidize and protect corporations? Paul would be in favor of that. If there was not the pot of gold at the end of the lobbying rainbow, corporations would not have as much incentive to be involved in politics. The campaign contributions are a pittance relative to the amount Congress-criminals earn from insider trading as a result of knowing how the rules will be made.

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

1. "Return to gold standard would be a disaster" - Paul does not advocate a "return to the gold standard" as detractors are describing. Instead he wants the market to create what is deemed currency worthy. He wants to legalize gold as something that can be used, not make the feds designate it as THE currency. That will be just as open to manipulation as any other centrally controlled, cartelized, money system http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/13/gol...-ron-paul.html

This statement would be so much more credible if Ron Paul explicitly divorced himself from both his own past writing and the von Mises institute.

He has not.

The campaign contributions are a pittance relative to the amount Congress-criminals earn from insider trading as a result of knowing how the rules will be made.

Campaign contributions are what get a Congress-person into office and keeps him/her there.

Insider trading is merely a perk of office.

There is a huge difference between the two.

Removing the perk doesn't fix the insidious effect campaign contributions have on politicians.

Furthermore it is quite unclear to me if making a couple million bucks personally is really better than getting the average of $1.1M every 2 years for a House seat or $6.5M every 6 years for a Senate seat provided for you by outsides (i.e. corporations and wealthy contributors).

Mr. Paul in fact would have been the 2nd or 3rd largest spender in terms of campaign contributions in the entire House in 2008:

http://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topraces.php

Raised

1.	Minnesota District 06	$14,620,558
2.	Ohio District 08	$9,256,679
3.	New York District 26*	$8,168,296
4.	Florida District 22	$6,277,993
5.	Virginia District 07	$3,374,793
6.	Connecticut District 05	$3,371,810
7.	Nevada District 02*	$3,213,512
8.	California District 36*	$3,086,109
9.	Texas District 33	$2,548,819
10.	California District 30	$2,397,710

Spent

1.	Minnesota District 06	$16,589,153
2.	New York District 26*	$7,688,138
3.	Ohio District 08	$5,562,514
4.	Nevada District 02*	$3,063,617
5.	Florida District 22	$2,881,451
6.	California District 36*	$2,818,898
7.	Virginia District 07	$2,201,634
8.	California District 44	$1,699,335
9.	New York District 09*	$1,330,707
10.	Connecticut District 05	$1,144,462

*Special Election

And in this upcoming election cycle, he isn't slacking off either:

http://www.dailypaul.com/182962/poli...paign-spending

Ron Paul’s 2012 campaign has ramped up faster than his 2008 bid, hiring staff in key states and making paid media buys earlier than last time.
That’s costing a lot of money.
Paul’s heavy campaign burn-rate emerged in his third-quarter campaign finance report filed Saturday, which showed him raising about $8.2 million for the period but also spending $7.5 million. He finished the quarter with $3.6 million in the bank. The largest costs came in the form of more than $2 million spent on TV and direct-mail advertising, for airtime and mail pieces that are running well past the quarter’s closing date last month.

[davidstvz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

1: fine

2: I wouldn't say it's been a complete failure. It's just a very difficult problem. Progress is being made. Meanwhile, if we don't use the oil, other countries will take it and use it to gain the power that we currently have. The industrial world is constrained by oil. Unless Ron Paul became emperor of the universe, this idealistic scenario wouldn't play out.

3: agreed (it doesn't matter what Ron Paul thinks in his head if all of his policy decisions would help people)

4: this is another unrealistic situation. Let's say Ron Paul magically gets congress to cooperate in eliminating all subsidies. What happens when he term is over? We need a more permanent protection.

Despite all this, I plan on contributing to Ron Paul's money bomb today.

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

[SamAdams]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

As was noted previously with Ron Paul's views on the 'market' solving everything, equally his views on 'right thinking' politicians being immune to gifts of campaign money is equally ludicrous.

As noted previously nothing solves everything and anyone thinking they can devise a system to do so is also ludicrous. Government is simply a means to force others to do what *you* think they should do, at the point of a gun. The market is simply voluntary transactions among people, not some kind of ideology to throw rotten tomatoes at. As with all systems that force others to do something, they create distortions and failures, often worse than the problems they were trying to solve, but usually just kicking the can down the road so a future generation can deal with it. Ron Paul is the best choice in a system that is broken and morally corrupt. There are only two paths now: build a totalitarian police state or eliminate the whole system, as much of it as we can. Just because I was born on (or will be born on) a plot of land doesn't mean I owe you something. Until that makes sense to people we are all chasing our tails with debt.

[SamAdams]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

I know RP has large contributions and a large amount of subsidies he has brought back to his constituents. But it is insider trading that influences the actual laws being passed, not the drop in the bucket of campaign contributions. So who do you want to support? RP whose investments include gold and gold miners OR Romney et all who are completely invested in the various corporations that comprise the vampire squid FIRE economy?