Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

[Sutter Cane]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Sorry Sutter Cane, I was not able to view the "Ron Paul Newsletters" I do not subscribe to the site so I was only able to read what was posted and the few instances of supposed "racist" comments by Paul which didnt seem racist at all. They were rooted in reality.


These are the only comments I was able to read. “opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions,” that “if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be,” and that black representative Barbara Jordan is “the archetypical half-educated victimologist” whose “race and sex protect her from criticism.”

None of that seems so far fetched. I think most people deep down realize that most black politicians get a pass based solely on their race. Kinda like how Obama got a pass during the 08 election on just about everything from the MSM and I bet that was due to the color of his skin. In fact if you criticized Obama you were called a racist!

White people are not allowed to criticize any person of color because if they do they will immediately be thought of as a racist or even called one.

I am making assumptions about you because you came on a public forum just to try and discredit and destroy Ron Paul with leftest propaganda. I udnerstand you don't worship at the altar of Ron Paul (whatever that means) but I bet you worship at the alter of Barack Obama.

You'd lose that bet.

It's not "leftist propaganda", it's Paul's own words published under his own name. Sorry the links on that article are dead, maybe you have to be a subscriber, or maybe the article is just too old, but it's not just some made up smear. Here's another blog post with some scans of the actual newsletters. From the "Ron Paul Report on Racial Terrorism."

Again, the point is to put an end to this talk of Ron Paul being some sort of saint. If you agree with his other views enough that you can support him despite having this kind of stuff in his past, fine, but lets drop the image of Paul as the only man of integrity in Washington, shall we?

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

So I read through all 8 pages of that article and although he uses strong language to condemn certain black people that article is in no way racist. Blacks do commit more crimes than their overal numbers. Again you deny the facts.

Most murders are committed by blacks but that in no way makes me think ALL black people act this way or are murderers. I can also say this, most sexual assualts on underage children are committed by white middle aged men. Does that mean I should hate all white middle aged men because they overwhelmingly commit pedaphilia?

Your logic is flawed because you have been taught to see everything through the prism of race or the color of someones skin. You should read some Thomas Sewell books.

Did you know that most poor people in the US are white?

Poverty and race
The US Census declared that in 2010 15.1% of the general population lived in poverty:^[29]
9.9% of all non-Hispanic white persons
12.1% of all Asian persons
26.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any nationality)
27.4% of all black persons.
About half of those living in poverty are non-Hispanic white (19.6 million in 2010),^[29] but poverty rates are much higher for blacks and Hispanics. Non-Hispanic white children comprised 57% of all poor rural children.^[30]

but poor white people have no where to turn unlike poor blacks and hispanics.

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

He lays out his plan for why he wouldnt get rid of corporate or individual citizen lobbying because the constitution is clear that it should be allowed. He says it wouldnt be a problem if we didnt have individuals in congress who were influenced by the lobbyists aka money. When it is known that an individual congressman took money from lobbyists then that person should be voted out of office.

I'm sorry, there is no mention whatsoever of corporations in the Constitution.

The Constitution makes no provision for protection of corporation's rights.

And Citizens United to the contrary, a corporation is NOT a person. A corporation can't go to jail. It can't serve in the military. It can't be executed for crimes. It can't have children. It can't get married. It doesn't go to church, or worship religion. etc etc.

As for the idea that somehow Congress would be fine if Congressional candidates didn't let money influence them - this is frankly insultingly naive.

You must have money to get into Congress. You must get it somewhere. Money always comes with strings attached.

As for members of Congress being voted out of office who took money - frankly that would be all of them, including Mr. Paul himself.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicia...?CID=N00005906

Due to Ron Paul's status as icon of the 'rebels' - he is able to avoid single large lump sum contributions, but the reason he is in office is because he spent over $9 million dollars from 2011-2012 for his campaign. How many Ron Paul type cults can the 500+ seats in Congress support?

It should be noted that the average House seat cost $1 million or so in 2008 - putting Ron Paul's $9 million for a low profile East Texas seat into perspective:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008...house-and.html

As was noted previously with Ron Paul's views on the 'market' solving everything, equally his views on 'right thinking' politicians being immune to gifts of campaign money is equally ludicrous.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

wasnt that the gist or implied function of 'the volcker rule' as it pertained to interest rates (being set 2pts or whatever above the rate of inflation - at least back in the good ole daze when the CPI was 'accurate' ) - when liquidity/loans got too frothy, allowing cost-push to get going, krank up the rates to pull liquidity out of circulation??

(i can get quickly in over my head in these sorts of discussions, but i'm here to learn, so dont mind taking a stab at offering my .02, if for no other reason than to be corrected when i dont get my 'deductions' quite right...)

Certainly that is the effect. A chartalist is in theory the best system there is. You can bring the money back in. Its really our tax law that is the problem because we leave rent seeking sink holes for it. Though we do have a monetary problem in that we have a private, complex money which is a perfectly British style merchant monopoly in practice. The public function of the FED is usurped in complexity. A public, simple regulated monopoly certainly has a better chance than this FED system. Almost no one understands a "debt-money", and they are confused by its paradox like a dog wrapping itself around a tree not knowing backwards is the way to his water bowl. My point is how easily librarians and "Austrians" are to slights of hand with merchantalist polices. One little law creating a sublimated and monopolistic industry like gold just perverts everything they stand for. A Hayek style free banking is perfectly consistent with what they believe. There are only two entities that have any justification. Simple, public, natural monopolies and free markets. A gold standard is a private money monopoly and the Fed is too complex.

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

he actually doesn't want to return us to gold or just turn the fed off. he wants to allow competing currencies and expects the fed will be out-competed and become obsolete.

Yes, that's his official position now.

The problem is - he still is affiliated with the von Mises institute, and has this long laundry list of Gold focused publications.

Perhaps his more "moderate" stance now is mostly to avoid the 'gold bug' label?

• Paul, Ron (1981) (PDF). Gold, Peace, and Prosperity: The Birth of a New Currency. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. OCLC 7877384. http://www.mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.
• Paul, Ron; Lehrman, Lewis; U.S. Gold Commission (September 1982) (PDF). The Case for Gold: A Minority Report of the U.S. Gold Commission. Washington, DC: Cato Institute (2d ed. Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2007). ISBN 0932790313. OCLC 8763972. http://www.mises.org/books/caseforgold.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.
• Paul, Ron (1983). Abortion and Liberty. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. ISBN 0912453028. OCLC 9682249.
• Paul, Ron (1983). Ten Myths About Paper Money: And One Myth About Paper Gold. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. OCLC 11765863.
• Paul, Ron (1984) (PDF). Mises and Austrian Economics: A Personal View. Auburn, Alabama: Ludwig von Mises Institute (2d ed. 2004). OCLC 19968524. http://www.mises.org/books/paulmises.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.

[davidstvz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Or maybe he's learned more about the dynamics of money and changed his mind? As much as I hate most politicians, you know it is possible for people to change their mind.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Paul Singer who runs Elliott Management is a proponent of sound money. Obviously people are not going to go around toting gold to a business to pay for items. Dollars will just be exchangable for a certain amount of gold similar to what we had before 1971. We will still use "paper" money and electronic credit and debit in our everyday lives.

You should read this article. If you are agaisnt gold than you are for the welfare state and deficit spending. This is one of the best articles on gold you will ever read.

http://www.constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

The von Mises institute is a fabulous think tank.

[davidstvz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Paul Singer who runs Elliott Management is a proponent of sound money. Obviously people are not going to go around toting gold to a business to pay for items. Dollars will just be exchangable for a certain amount of gold similar to what we had before 1971. We will still use "paper" money and electronic credit and debit in our everyday lives.

You should read this article. If you are agaisnt gold than you are for the welfare state and deficit spending. This is one of the best articles on gold you will ever read.

http://www.constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

The von Mises institute is a fabulous think tank.

I understand a lot more about finance and economics than I did 6 months ago, but I still have a ton of questions. Why doesn't Greenspan's argument work against fractional reserve lending period? If a banker has 1000 units of gold then lends out credit or paper currency in the amount of 2000 (and also charges interest), how is that acceptable or good? The credit represents claims on twice the gold he actually has (the same argument Greenspan uses against deficit spending not backed by gold). If his creditors pay him back with interest, now he has more than twice the cash but the same amount of gold.

As a separate issue, what's so bad about deflation in a paper currency backed by gold? If there are 1,000 gold coins and the birthrate is up and the economy grows, eventually that's a big problem because 1,000 coins isn't enough to facilitate trade. Each coin becomes worth too much as the economy grows. But our pennies are nearly worthless and gold represented by paper and base coins can be infinitely subdivided. If it became necessary, we could make half pennies. So if we froze gold and money in equal proportion and just subdivided itas the economy grew... why wouldn't that work?

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Or maybe he's learned more about the dynamics of money and changed his mind? As much as I hate most politicians, you know it is possible for people to change their mind.

I'd say if he changed his mind, it seems strange that he still allows the von Mises institute to wave his past around like a flag.

What's more likely: a politician taking a stance which makes him more electable, or a politician which rides an MSM certified position down in flames?

And make no mistake: Ron Paul is a politician.

Paul Singer who runs Elliott Management is a proponent of sound money. Obviously people are not going to go around toting gold to a business to pay for items. Dollars will just be exchangable for a certain amount of gold similar to what we had before 1971. We will still use "paper" money and electronic credit and debit in our everyday lives.

Delightful, Paul Singer has rediscovered the goldsmith's certificate. It has only been around for 2000+ years.

And 2000+ years ago, minus a few, goldsmiths soon discovered they could pass out more certificates redeemable for gold, than actual gold in possession, as davidstvz alludes to.

Works great until too many people try to redeem their certificates - also known as a bank run.

The second problem with a gold standard is that the gold supply bears zero relationship to the economy. Whether the economy slows too fast or grows too quickly, you cannot modify the gold supply. Thus instead of a denominator problem (value of dollar), you wind up with a numerator problem (amount of gold).

Same problem either way though the portion of the cycle where the negative effects are felt is switched.

What we really need is a gold standard when times are good to prevent bubbles, and a fiat standard when times are bad to make up output gaps.

Or in other words, a non-corrupt, correctly functioning central bank and monetary system.

Yet another theoretical construct.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Paul Singer who runs Elliott Management is a proponent of sound money. Obviously people are not going to go around toting gold to a business to pay for items. Dollars will just be exchangable for a certain amount of gold similar to what we had before 1971. We will still use "paper" money and electronic credit and debit in our everyday lives.

You should read this article. If you are agaisnt gold than you are for the welfare state and deficit spending. This is one of the best articles on gold you will ever read.

http://www.constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

The von Mises institute is a fabulous think tank.

"by Alan Greenspan"

I would not take any stock in his ideas. Paper gold is a fiat currency. Bank runs happened all the time on metallic standards. That's how it all started. Who is going to audit the reserves? We can't even get in to see Fort Knox.

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. "

There isn't? Why not just buy gold in the open market and not keep wealth stored in a currency? Why do people try to treat a currency as an investment vehicle? Gold is working great right now.

With a gold standard what he is really saying is there is no way for debtors to inflate their way out of debt bondage. Debts grow beyond their ability to pay because in the real world production always geometrically expands early in the cycle and the leverage against it follows. Then a diminishing return brings it to a linear progression and then foreclosure will loom. He wants to protect the creditor, not the debtor. The banks are at this very moment pushing hard for a balanced budget for this reason. The real world trends alway end, thus the interest always will exceed the ability to pay hence the need for a jubilee.

The neo classicals always invoke that monetary law that adding more money simply is like taking a bucket of water and pouring it back in the lake. They always use models that do not involve a financial economy with debtors and creditors. In that case adding a bucket of money moves money from creditors to debtors. Since the creditors always eat the world which is the real necessity, to deflate or to inflate? That is why the EU is facing inflation or debt cancellation and or blowing apart. Thats the end result of an EU with its hard money characteristics where the creditor controls the inflation rate.


"that the gold standard is an instrument of laissez-faire"

I can't believe someone like this controlled our money. In one side of the mouth "free" and then in the other "standard".

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Clue you answered a lot of Davids questions in your post so i dont have to. Again I don't advocate a pure gold standard and obviously you can issue more certificates than their is gold but in a modern society that will be found out quite soon and corrective action taken. This was not the case in say Roman times when they began putting less and less gold in each batch of specie they created.

A gold standard does not end economic collapse or financial market folly ( that is obvious from history where lots of countries were on the gold standard yet had economic collapse). But some form of gold standard prevents deficit spending and the welfare state which I am in favor of ending. Now if you disagree with that fundamental premise that is fine we can disagree. In other words you want deficit spending and some form of a welfare state.

Obviously I operate in the current world of fractional banking and fiat money printing so I am inclined by those rules but that doesnt mean I cannot advocate what I believe to be a better system for individual liberty.

I would rather have currency devaulations agaisnt gold than be a slave to debt.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Sorry but if you truly think that a fiat money system is the right way to go than you deserve your fate. Our economy has shown you that in a fiat money system that the creditor is the one who is protected not the debtor.

In a form of the gold standard than the debtor will never be in debt! That is the point, not to take on too much debt in the system so you do not have to inflate it away.

I would be careful wishing for the inflation of debt it might end bad for you.

I can't believe you said this "Then a diminishing return brings it to a linear progression and then foreclosure will loom. He wants to protect the creditor, not the debtor. The banks are at this very moment pushing hard for a balanced budget for this reason. The real world trends alway end, thus the interest always will exceed the ability to pay hence the need for a jubilee. "

But nice analogy on the jewish concept of jubilee

So you are trying to tell me that the individuals saying we should print more money and inflate the debt are looking out for the debtor? That the banks are pushing for a balanced budget so that they can continue to collect high interest on debt payments to infinity without the debt being inflated away?

Wow just wow. That is quite interesting. So you think the republicans advocating a balanced budget are agents working for the banks to keep the debt on the books without inflating it away so that they can profit?

[davidstvz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Can we speak plainly. This issue is still confusing for many people.

What do you think the banks want? Is there anyone in power who opposes them? What do they want?

[mikedev10]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Isn't this the same thinking for which Obama supporters have been (justifiably) pilloried? Hoping that somebody holds certain views, despite no evidence, or even after actions to the contrary?

i'll again point out to his policies being blind to skin color, and that i don't believe anything would help the black community more than ending the war on drugs. who else is going to do that?

[mikedev10]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Yes, that's his official position now.

The problem is - he still is affiliated with the von Mises institute, and has this long laundry list of Gold focused publications.

Perhaps his more "moderate" stance now is mostly to avoid the 'gold bug' label?

• Paul, Ron (1981) (PDF). Gold, Peace, and Prosperity: The Birth of a New Currency. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. OCLC 7877384. http://www.mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.
• Paul, Ron; Lehrman, Lewis; U.S. Gold Commission (September 1982) (PDF). The Case for Gold: A Minority Report of the U.S. Gold Commission. Washington, DC: Cato Institute (2d ed. Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2007). ISBN 0932790313. OCLC 8763972. http://www.mises.org/books/caseforgold.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.
• Paul, Ron (1983). Abortion and Liberty. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. ISBN 0912453028. OCLC 9682249.
• Paul, Ron (1983). Ten Myths About Paper Money: And One Myth About Paper Gold. Lake Jackson, Texas: Foundation for Rational Economics and Education. OCLC 11765863.
• Paul, Ron (1984) (PDF). Mises and Austrian Economics: A Personal View. Auburn, Alabama: Ludwig von Mises Institute (2d ed. 2004). OCLC 19968524. http://www.mises.org/books/paulmises.pdf. Retrieved 2007-07-30.

he's happy to go in front of an audience of his party and tell them things he believes while they throw boos at him. i don't think he's trying to pander or hedge a view on gold to get rid of a "gold bug" label!