Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

[leegs]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

...

If you could go back in time and prevent the invention of quinine, or put a magical barrier around the continent to keep out Europeans, how precisely would Africa be better off today? Fewer people would have been killed by evil butchers like Leopold. Perhaps true. But so too would there be far fewer people, period.
...

The Africans have the right to find their own destiny. I would submit the colonization of Africa was largely a product of Anglo-Puritan sentimentality that was enhanced by the French Revolution and the ensuing new religion of radical egalitarianism. Many, if not most, colonists deeply believed it was their duty to reform Africa. They were no different than your typical Harvard educated peace corp volunteer. But it was a mistake to impose European values on these people. They were once capable of subsistence, if in a more primitive fashion, but now they are not. Their culture never was able to evolve because it never had to. European paternalism hindered and continues to hinder their advancement. Their way of life is entirely different from our own, particularly with the way children are raised. It is simply not right for us to impose our values on them. ...
.

I don't want to get into the core of your debate regarding egalitarianism, liberalism, political correctness, and evil or guilt or lack thereof of white people, or related issues. Rather I'd like to use your two comments above to explore another issue, namely the definition of 'progress' and 'better off'. On the one hand your first paragraph mentioned above (along with your previous statements) equates European influence, and associated technological and industrial change with progress and improvement.

You quite explicitly state that because there are more people in Africa now, due to European influence, than there would be had they been left to their own devices, that's a good thing. Then in the next paragraph you acknowledge that the mismatch between European and African cultures has left African people in a state of dependence and chaos. So tell me, how are either of these things an improvement over 'what might have been'?

Again, my objective with this post is to inspire a little bit of skepticism, or at least consideration, of the normally unquestioned premise that change (specifically the change that we normally call progress, i.e. technical, industrial) = improvement.

[c1ue]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

My argument is to let people do as they please because they will figure out their own correct way. The truth for anyone is only their own truth.

This is how we should be governed. To let people do as they please as long as they do not harm another human.

What if what people need is regulation?

[dcarrigg]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Thailand, you think that civilized people could have an educated debate without using the R word?

What forum am I in? Is this, stormfront now? The "R" word? That's what we're calling it?

I'm looking at my desk. I see paper, paper currency and a calendar (all invented by the Chinese). There's a cup of coffee, coins and wood lacquer - invented by Lydians and Arabs. Nobody knows who came up with the desk first. I also have a stapler, computer, speakers, and a phone that were probably initially invented by some European-American - but now they are just marketed by Americans and built and serviced by Asians.

I'm using a phonetic alphabet and arabic numerals too for mathematical functions that borrow conceptually from native groups, slavs, and others.

I had family who worked for an American computer manufacturer named Wang in a state called Massachusetts named after the indigenous people who once lived there. I eat corn products and potatoes and peppers - all native agricultural innovations.

Oh, the burden of the poor white man, having to civilize everyone and invent everything of value...

How did this conversation get here and why? I don't remember ITulip being so obsessed with race a year or two ago...maybe I missed it. It's this sort of thing that will turn people off, though. I mean, one can have a civilized conversation about it, but why? To what end?

Obviously there's some physical dimorphism. Outside of that, you get into some sort of deterministic dialectical argument about racial superiority that is just as silly as Marxist dialectics and even more dangerous.

The majority of inventions that catch on come from the global hegemon for self-evident reasons.

I have nothing further to say on this topic. As I said at the beginning of the post, there's another forum that exists solely to give "whiteness the credit it's due."

Now back to our regularly scheduled political economy.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Its most likely in this day and age that the majority of people in a Democracy will vote for whatever gives them the most money from government. Isn't this how Europe is structured ? Vote the politician in who will give me the most or who promises the most. That is why there is no Libertarian party in Europe that is serious. Both the Left and the Center Right because really there is no right in Europe, promise the people what they think they would want in return for votes.

You have to have a critical mass of people decide that the best thing to do in most situations is not to act or do nothing. If a plan blows up in the air we don't need more regulation because a part was faulty. The statistically odds are that X percent of planes will blow up in any given year/timeframe.

The problem is that every politician and person thinks they know best and that we need a solution to every problem that arises instead of realizing that most solutions become the problem.

To your question. I am sure there are a certain percentage of people who want regulation or want to live under certain rules. Obviously why we have the rules we do today but that doesnt make it the "right" choice.

For the most part the crowd is usually wrong.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

DC, you have not responded to our previous debate on economics and RP.

Stormfront really? Thats where you think we are because we are debating racial topics? DC please dont go there.

I was only trying to point out certain facts and trust me it does matter. I am sure the Europeans are thinking it matters. Who wants to see their entire history, ethnicity and culture wiped out simply because of mass immigration of another ethnicity/culture? And that goes for any race or ethnicity.

If you lived in Ghana you would not want to see 3 million Indians move to your country and because of demographics within one generation there be almost no native Ghanians left?

I said nothing about racial superiority you brought that into the equation! I was trying to point out that most of what you see around you was invented by caucasian people and that includes Arabs and Indians (from India). How is that fact considered wrong? It is reality nothing more.

Immigration is always an issue of derision when the original population numbers very little and the incoming immigration will change the ethnic make up of the country forever. Meaning their culture and ethnicity will cease to exist. This is happening in many European countries and I can imagine this could be a major problem in the future.

Do you really want to go to Ghana and not see any ethnic Ghanians but only other ethnicities that didnt exist in their land a 100 years ago? I for one love diversity but if population demographics continue the way they are then in a few more generations most people will be tan and not resemble anyone of the past.

I think people don't realize that the idea of diversity will destroy diversity because eventually due to genetics everyone will look the same and there will be no more whites, asians or blacks.

[Eryximachus]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Oh, the burden of the poor white man, having to civilize everyone and invent everything of value...

How did this conversation get here and why? I don't remember ITulip being so obsessed with race a year or two ago...maybe I missed it. It's this sort of thing that will turn people off, though. I mean, one can have a civilized conversation about it, but why? To what end?

Obviously there's some physical dimorphism. Outside of that, you get into some sort of deterministic dialectical argument about racial superiority that is just as silly as Marxist dialectics and even more dangerous.

The majority of inventions that catch on come from the global hegemon for self-evident reasons.

I have nothing further to say on this topic. As I said at the beginning of the post, there's another forum that exists solely to give "whiteness the credit it's due."

Now back to our regularly scheduled political economy.

1) I don't particularly have an opinion about the matter, other than the fact I am white and do not appreciate being blamed for all the world's problems. There are many posters on this site who routinely make such claims. They are false, and as I have said, they can and do lead to violence every day. The problem with cultural marxism and the tabula rasa theory is that cultural and biological differences are ignored, but then the only explanation for socially deviant behavior is racism. There isn't a day that goes by where a major article in a mass media outlet does not make this claim. It's absurd, and I will challenge it whenever it presents itself.
2) When it comes to technology, we're talking about the industrial revolution and the very notion of "progress", which is in and of itself a product of the Enlightenment. This is an extension of Spengler's view of history, and is an elaboration of Goethe's Faust. In essence, we made a deal with the devil. We unleashed the power of technology that brought temporary prosperity, but also unimaginable terror as well as the belittling of human life. If it was up to me, I would have crushed the industry as wise nations before always had done.
3) The inventions you describe are not relevant to the dramatic and extraordinary increase in the human population over the past 200 years, and particularly over the last 50 years. I did use some hyperbole, and make no mistake: I do not think industrialization or inventiveness is a positive quality. All it has done is let us rape this planet, and the end result will likely be the destruction of meaningful culture and ultimately the deaths of billions of people. If anything, my point is the desires of anti-racists are the same that drove the Yankee war against the south, and the British campaign to "civilize" Africa. Different people have different values, and different ways of surviving due to different environments in which they evolved and adapted. It is wrong to suggest one way of life, in particular the American way of life of atomized individualism and consumerism, is the best way.
4) The truth is that liberalism is fundamentally a primarily white endeavor. No one believes the fundamental principles of liberalism outside of the US and Western Europe. If you really spend time with educated people from foreign countries, they laugh at how messed up American society is. If anything, truly reactionary political thought that directly contradicts the principles of the French Revolution is much stronger outside of the US and the West than within it.

[Eryximachus]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

A Filipino friend wrote a great piece about how they perceive the issue of immigration, and juxtaposes against liberal/globalist political theory.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main...-for-identity/

[lektrode]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

...I have nothing further to say on this topic.
....
........
Now back to our regularly scheduled political economy.

i dont believe that dc, but eye do believe that you _always_ know exactly the correct words to say it and couldnt agree more (as usual...)

this song sez it all methinks:

[lektrode]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

while you may rightly conclude that 'reverse racism' has crept into The US and that perhaps 'minorities' have started to to 'enjoy' some of the 'benefits' of that, one has NO IDEA WHATSOEVER on just what its like to be a 'minority'...
until one lives where i do and until one has seen/lived on both sides of that street, only then can one begin to understand just how mean/ugly it can get for those not in the favoured group.

so let me tell you something... its not acceptable in any situation whatsover and this has been driven home (to me anyway) in just the past week, when watching a piece on 60minutes the other night, about the plight of working class black AMERICANS of pittsburg - homeowners who did all the right stuff and are getting screwed anyway - or if you havent yet, see this one: http://thehelpmovie.com/ and if that doesnt make you angry/sad then you are NOT fit for civil discourse on this forum and really ought to go play elsewhere, sir.

and thats all i'm gonna say.

[Raz]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

You're hoping Ron Paul will convert from political gadfly to statesman, much as so many people in 2008 were hoping Obama would convert from Chicago machine politics figurehead to unifying leader.

The best of a bunch of bad choices is not a good choice.

Here's the difference: Barack Obama was a LIAR from the outset - as if he sat in Jeremiah Wright's "church" for twenty years and never heard all the racist, neocommunist venom. His entire political career is baked in corruption - you can't wallow with pigs and not smell like them.

Agree or disagree with him, Ron Paul illustrates the qualities of a statesman - the man who thinks about the next generation, and not just the next election. (Or his golden parachute.)

[oddlots]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

What the hell is a "cultural Marxist"? Or white guilt for that matter? You seem to be speaking some kind of code.

And where did I suggest that colonialism in Africa was a positive or negative overall. I simply pointed to a book that documents a huge criminal enterprise that exploited the local population of the Belgian Congo unto death in staggering numbers. That is a crime. Would it be any less of a crime if we were to decide 100 years later that "overall" colonization was a good thing for Africa? Who would be qualified to make such an outrageous judgement?

I'm not anti-white, I'm anti-racist. That's implicit in everything i've said here. As I said, it's just a form of tribalism that is used to incite or justify hatred, violence and crime as in the above example of the Belgian Congo.

The hilarious thing about this thread is that you guys just keep digging yourself in deeper with everything you say. You assume I'm anti-white somehow by pointing out the, I think, still unrecognized depths of depravity that was - in part - justified or made acceptable by notions of racial superiority.

And that makes me anti-white? (Cough)

How do you know I'm not anti-Belgian?

Or to put a finer point on it: you are so racist that you can't even imagine someone not subscribing to the whole idea that race defines anything meaningful... (Outside, of course, ridiculous discussions like this.)

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

oddlots relax

One of the main problems is the fact that any black or minority plight is shown to the extreme but when white people suffer or for that matter asian people no one ever ever talks about it.

Let me ask you, do you know anything about the Holodomor? and be honest dont say that you know of it because we are on the internet..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Holodomor literal translation is killing by hunger. I bet you have not heard of it and I will say that 90% of Americans have never heard of it.

It is estimated that 1.8 to 12 million ethnic Ukranians were killed by the Communist Russians through man made famine in 1932-33.

What I find odd is that there are no hollywood movies or even books about it! And you want to know the reason why there are none? Because the victims were white. If they had been black then the world would have a special holiday to remember the great tragedy of the Holomodor.

They ar trying to make a movie about it but there are already people coming out to condemn the movie and call the Holodomor FAKE! I am sure no Ukranian thinks it is fake.

http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2...ake-holodomor/

Now regarding that book on the Congo, I am sure some people disputed claims in it but they never said it was fake. At least there is awareness around the issue.

This is the double standard of society.

[oddlots]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Jesus, give me strength.

You think I'm unaware that eastern Europe was the killing fields of europe? And you think this "white"-on-"white" violence somehow helps your cause to make supposedly plain speaking about "race" respectable?

You are peddling poison in bad times.

The precedents are not good at all.

Go look in a mirror and say to yourself: "I'm willing to sacrifice my child to a race riot because a bigger truth will emerge."

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

So the entire reason that you don't want to talk about race at all is because it will cause a race riot? You are that afraid? Come on oddlots!

By the way why is your name oddlots? Do you trade debt and only trade odd lots? say 50m or 150m instead of 1mm or 10mm blocks? haha I have to know!

I have more than an inkling that there will be race riots at least in Europe well not race riots per se but ethnic riots yes.You are seeing the white Europeans push back now when all they see is their way of life, culture, identity and future existence threatened on a daily basis due to population demographics.

I am not saying it is right or wrong. Just like economics on this site we can't bother our analysis with wether it is the right or wrong thing to do we just have to accept the political economic facts and base our analysis off what we think the government is going to do. Well we kinda gotta do the same pertaining to what is going to happen in Europe in regards to race and ethnicity.

Again I say who wants to go to Sweden and only see Arabs with no ethnic Swedes left. Who wants to go to Ghana and only see Indians and no ethnic Ghanians? Something is going to break. I am only pointing out what I see and observe.

It is only non respectable in your eyes to talk about race because you have been conditioned not to! All your life people have told you don't talk about race or religion! America is so backwards. In almost every other coutnry in the world race or ethnicity and religion are the main topics!

It is not poisin when addressed from a pure scientific base, science cannot be denied. All these athiests want to denounce god yet they cannot comprehend that the races could be slightly different due to evolution and environment.

It is rather unbelievable.

And yes I think that MOST people have never heard of the Holodomor. Holodomor was not about "killing fields" it was what was done to the Ukranians by ethnic Russians on purpose.

oddlots just relax a little bit, take a step back and think about these things critically. This is what I did from a very young age. I wondered why events like the Holocaust or Slavery or Colonialism were the most talked about when other events were swept under the rug? I think I would know a little bit about the Holocaust since it was my people it was done to.

Something is perversely wrong in the world and how people perceive what has happened in history.

Step back and stop trying to see everything through the prism of race and you may actually sleep well at night. Stop looking for the bloodthirsty boogeyman racist white male in the shadows that doesnt really exist.

I understand it is hard when everything you have ever been taught has been a lie and propaganda to make you politically correct and to denounce who you are and your entire history as a white male as nothing but bloodlust for racial superiority.

Which couldnt be farther from the truth.

[Sutter Cane]

Re: Conan Parodies Ron Paul Ad

Here's the difference: Barack Obama was a LIAR from the outset - as if he sat in Jeremiah Wright's "church" for twenty years and never heard all the racist, neocommunist venom.

I won't even get into debating whether Wright actually said anything racist. Let's just say that, okay, Wright did say lots of racist stuff.

Why is Obama is accountable for Wright's racist rhetoric, but Paul gets a pass on his own? It was published in his own newsletter, under his own name, and there was no "the opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect" boilerplate. And then Paul later made mealy-mouthed, half-assed attempts to deflect his own involvement in disseminating this tripe. Yet you somehow see one of these men as an empty suit and one as a paragon of virtue.

I see two politicians doing whatever seemed to best help their political career at the time.

Seriously, you're still going to bring up Wright, when Paul gets a smiling pic with the founder of Stormfront, and that group's continued endorsement?

RonPaulDonBlack.jpg

Agree or disagree with him, Ron Paul illustrates the qualities of a statesman - the man who thinks about the next generation, and not just the next election.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the case. Years ago, Paul was trying to appeal to the lowest (and I mean rock-bottom) common denominator of the 14th district of Texas. He didn't calculate how these statements would play later when he was trying to run for president, and when they came up, he didn't handle it honorably, he handled it like the usual two-faced politician who has been in Congress for over 20 years. He issued the typical cowardly politician non-apology apology that was vague enough that none of the folks who really liked what was in those newsletters (like Stormfront) would think he really meant it:

In 2001, Paul found himself in a new millennium, and a new country, and in due course, came upon a different tune. Confronted with the newsletters in 2001 (before The New Republic story) and particularly his brutal attack on Barbara Jordan as "Barbara Morondon," the "archetypical half-educated victimologist" whose "race and sex protect her from criticism" Paul explained:

When I ask him why, he pauses for a moment, then says, "I could never say this in the campaign, but those words weren't really written by me. It wasn't my language at all. Other people help me with my newsletter as I travel around. I think the one on Barbara Jordan was the saddest thing, because Barbara and I served together and actually she was a delightful lady." Paul says that item ended up there because "we wanted to do something on affirmative action, and it ended up in the newsletter and became personalized. I never personalize anything."


His reasons for keeping this a secret are harder to understand: "They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them ... I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they [campaign aides] said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'"

Note Paul's language: It "ended up" in the newsletter. "Other people" wrote the words. "Campaign aids" said that honesty was too confusing. No actual named person did anything.


Racism, like all forms of bigotry, is what it claims to oppose--victimology. The bigot is never to blame. Always is he besieged--by gays and their radical agenda, by women and their miniskirts, by fleet-footed blacks. It is an ideology of "not my fault." It is not Ron Paul's fault that people with an NAACP view of the world would twist his words. It is not Ron Paul's fault that his newsletter trafficked in racism. It is not Ron Paul's fault that he allowed people to author that racism in his name. It is anonymous political aids and writers, who now cowardly refuse to own their words. There's always someone else to blame--as long as it isn't Ron Paul, if only because it never was Ron Paul.


This is not a particular tragedy for black people. The kind of racism which Paul trafficked is neither innovative nor original. Even his denials recall the obfuscations of Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens. But some pity should be reserved for the young and disgruntled, for those who dimly perceive that something is wrong in this country, for those who are earnestly appalled by the madness of our criminal justice policy, for those who have watched a steady erosion of our civil liberties, and have seen their concerns met with an appalling silence on the national stage. That their champion should be, virtually by default, a man of mixed motives and selective courage, is sad.

I love how anybody who brings up criticism of Paul is suddenly labeled an Obama supporter. I don't support Obama. But I'm tired of Paul being sainted. He's a career politician who said questionable things to further his career. He has done exactly the thing that you denounce Obama for. You may agree or disagree with his policy stands, but don't try to pretend that he is of some sort of higher moral fiber than the other candidates. (Okay, probably Gingrich.)

I've seen people who explicitly state that they DISAGREE with Paul on a number of issues, but still support him because they have this image of him as the only honest man in Washington. I just want to see Paul handled with the same kind of rationality and cynicism that are applied to every other political candidate by the posters on this site.