Vote for Obama. Here's why.

[EJ]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

If Obama wins (I hope he doesn't) then I predict you, ej, will rue the day you made this choice.

While most of us accept that politicians must have a more casual relation with truth than say accountants, still we tend to grant our fellow humans some modicum of trust until proven otherwise.

If Obama wins, I predict that you will discover that Obama and his entire campaign was profoundly and deliberately more deceiptful than you thought possible. My impressions are that Obama's inner sense of himself is pathologically disconnected from how he presents himself (I suspect he's a victim of serious child abuse) and that since his adolescence he has been manipulated by some of the most dangerous, scheming, radical anti-American Marxists of our time.

I fear for my country.

My real fear is that most of the younger people in this nation will never realize the mistake they made in allowing Obama anywhere near the White House. At least you're beyond doubt a smart chap, so I trust that if I'm right in all this, you will some day be capable of seeing as much.

Hopefully, either I'm a whacked out nut job, or Obama loses tonight.

I thought long and hard about that before writing this endorsement.

My conclusion was that we, and I am being presumptuous here, over the age of 30 do not understand the generation that Obama represents.

What they are against is: racism, cronyism, favoritism, ignorance, being sent off to die in wars started by old men on false pretenses, and being ripped off by their parents who have mortgaged their future and left them with a reverse mortgage on the deflating family home.

Did the the boomers think their kids would never grow up and become sentient beings? Maybe not a class war but a justified uprising of a generation that knows it is stuck with the tab from the previous one. What did we expect?

The most popular piece I ever wrote for iTulip was How Much of Your Car Should You Finance? Zero percent with over 50,000 views. Guess who read it? Not 40 year olds.

This generation is not stupid. They are catching on. It's hard to sell bullshit to them. They are expert at bulllshit detection. They'd never think McCain is a "maverick" and "straight talking." Now that is some serious wishful thinking.

The generation that voted for Obama is so fiercely individualistic and capitalistic that you'd have a better chance of developing their interest in Buddy Holly than a collectivist movement among them. That is another generational issue it's hard for us old folks to get past. Marxism is dead. The dispute that remains is over the relations between the state and free enterprise. My worry about Obama is too much state and not enough enterprise, but the generation that voted for him isn't interested in going on the dole or paying taxes, either. They are eager to create the next big thing, and do it for money but also for fun and for everyone's use. The Internet is their idea of a great invention.

Obama anti-American? What security do we have without economic strength? What can be more anti-American than to not make every effort to protect the US economy? By that measure we have not had a president since Johnson that was not anti-American.

I don't take the absence of patriotic rhetoric from Obama as a sign that he does not love our country. The generation that supports him is not nationalistic, and I don't just mean here in the US. The generation in Estonia, China, Japan, Italy, all think the same way. Think about it. If you grew up with the Internet and were exposed to as much of the world as they have been, you'd think: what's all the fuss about national borders? Everyone speaks and writes English. Everyone is a capitalist, whether they admit it or not. Now if we can just get these old farts and their governments out of our way.

Obama an abused child? Probably. I prefer my leaders employ their over-achievement neurosis in my interest -- manic-depression and alcoholism are common symptoms of the best of them. I don't care if they are also great statesmen.

We shall see what Obama does if he wins, then what the job turns him into. But that is by no means assured.

Thanks for your note.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

You really should try and get past your xenophobia. This kind of thinking is what keeps civilizations from progressing.

Being a bit to quick on the draw with claims of racism or other politically incorrect thinking can also be an impediment.

I find the posts of Mn_Mark to worth reading.

[ricket]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I'm flattered that Mr. Janszen chose to single out my posting about Obama to build a reply around. He makes his points eloquently and with an appealing optimism. However I remain confident that future events will bear out my skepticism.

We are not South Africa, true. The white population here is 65% rather than the 5% in S.A. A black president here could not move nearly as quickly to seize white property as the black government in South Africa has done. Especially the first black President will have to move somewhat cautiously, appointing many prominent white men to leadership posts, so as not to confirm too easily the fears of whites like myself. But Obama is from the Alinsky school of social activism and he understands the need for incrementalism. I doubt he will push too hard at first. (Though every so often his true feelings slip out, as when he said a few days ago that he plans to fundamentally change the United States of America.)

But in some ways we are worse than South Africa. South African blacks may have been denied the vote but they were never the slaves of South African whites. They are, to a large extent, the descendents of blacks from around that region of Africa who moved to S.A. to get work that was not available anywhere else. The whites, disdaining manual labor themselves, hired the blacks to do that. (Sound familiar?) The blacks who came for work stayed, made families, and increased their percentage of the population from around 50% to 95%, at which point they took over after the 1994 referendum. The noble-sounding rhetoric of Nelson Mandela and others about reconciliation, rainbows, and so on, were empty words. People want power and people think ethnically. That is not changed by pretty words.

The idea that now that a black man is going to be President, the festering resentment of blacks will dissipate and racial harmony will become ever more evident is too idealistic, I think. I think more likely what you will hear from blacks is this: only now has America BEGUN to fulfill its promise to blacks. This will not be considered the capstone of the 150 year process of eliminating discrimination; it will be considered just a starting place. Now the restitution can begin in earnest.

Further I don't know where you are looking when you see evidence that the poisonous black underculture is disappearing. The illegitimacy rate among blacks, which was 25% in the era of open discrimination, is nearly 70% now. The coarsening of our popular culture is rampant. The hatred expressed towards whites is as virulent as ever. (Google 'Kamau Kambon' and check out what this black intellectual suggested as a solution to our national racial problems at a conference at Howard University last year. His speech is on YouTube.)

Another commenter wrote: "I do think Eric may be right in the qualitative milestone the US may be reaching in finally swallowing a chunk of our domestic racism. I remember when we had our first African American mayor of a big city, Detroit I believe, and it took a while to have another. Fits and starts is more like it. Now, who cares?"

What an unfortunate example he selects for his point. Detroit is an example of what happens to a once-great American city under black management. New Orleans would be another. Did you know that satellite photos show that parts of central Detroit are actually returning to nature? People are setting up small farms there. The city has been hollowed out. A center of American industry was made too unsafe for white people to be able to live there, and the blacks who remained essentially destroyed it.

Can you point to a single example of a former white-majority city or country where the quality of life of the remaining white residents has not been seriously compromised when they became a minority? I can't.

So I can't share your sense of optimism. But that's OK - it's important that white liberals, who mean well and have the noblest sort of intentions - see for themselves the truth of these things. They won't believe it until they see it in their own neighborhoods and their own nation. This is the price we are going to have to pay for our undiscriminating altruism. We are idealistic people - when we think something is the moral and right thing, we will tenaciously hold on to it even if it harms us. That's why about the only places in the world with a track record of free and fair elections are majority-white nations. We voluntarily abstain from rigging elections; we voluntarily pay our taxes, obey laws, don't litter, and so on. It's why the 90% of the world that isn't white so strongly wants to emigrate to our nations.

So let's set a stake right here on the eve of the election of the first black President and check back in five or ten years to see if this election really soothed blacks and led to a new era of racial harmony, or whether it only emboldened them to demand even more and flaunt their power. After 14 years of black rule, it's not hard to guess what white South Africans would predict is in our future.

You really should try and get past your xenophobia. This kind of thinking is what keeps civilization from progressing. I'd rather worry about repercussions when someone *DOES* do something wrong, than to constantly fear and persecute those that we fear *MAY* do something wrong. It's this very tenet of "innocent until proven guilty" that upholds our entire judicial system.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Did you know that satellite photos show that parts of central Detroit are actually returning to nature?

See Zillow Blog at http://www.zillowblog.com/the-remain...ef=patrick.net for pictures of a $1 house for sale in Detroit to get a graphic image of what has become of this city.

It's sad.

[Wild Style]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Barack Obama represents the American ideal, an expression of the best of American culture and simultaneously a rejection of the dying culture of dependency and self-defeatism that kept many blacks in America behind other races that came to America and flourished over the centuries. That self-destructive culture was an echo of slavery, rebounding off America like a cry of pain and anger that reinforced division, prejudice, and failure with despondency and fear. Little noticed to many, that culture has been fading out for 20 years as the latest generation of Americans, more race-blind than their parents, focus on more important matters in a globally competitive world: education, skills, cooperation, teamwork.

great article except for this bit which seems to paint some fairy tale picture of America, where all things were equal for everyone. New imigrants coming to America didn't face being lynched from trees, inferior educations, sub par socio economic conditions, jim crow and institutionalized racism.

[Mn_Mark]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I'm flattered that Mr. Janszen chose to single out my posting about Obama to build a reply around. He makes his points eloquently and with an appealing optimism. However I remain confident that future events will bear out my skepticism.

We are not South Africa, true. The white population here is 65% rather than the 5% in S.A. A black president here could not move nearly as quickly to seize white property as the black government in South Africa has done. Especially the first black President will have to move somewhat cautiously, appointing many prominent white men to leadership posts, so as not to confirm too easily the fears of whites like myself. But Obama is from the Alinsky school of social activism and he understands the need for incrementalism. I doubt he will push too hard at first. (Though every so often his true feelings slip out, as when he said a few days ago that he plans to fundamentally change the United States of America.)

But in some ways we are worse than South Africa. South African blacks may have been denied the vote but they were never the slaves of South African whites. They are, to a large extent, the descendents of blacks from around that region of Africa who moved to S.A. to get work that was not available anywhere else. The whites, disdaining manual labor themselves, hired the blacks to do that. (Sound familiar?) The blacks who came for work stayed, made families, and increased their percentage of the population from around 50% to 95%, at which point they took over after the 1994 referendum. The noble-sounding rhetoric of Nelson Mandela and others about reconciliation, rainbows, and so on, were empty words. People want power and people think ethnically. That is not changed by pretty words.

The idea that now that a black man is going to be President, the festering resentment of blacks will dissipate and racial harmony will become ever more evident is too idealistic, I think. I think more likely what you will hear from blacks is this: only now has America BEGUN to fulfill its promise to blacks. This will not be considered the capstone of the 150 year process of eliminating discrimination; it will be considered just a starting place. Now the restitution can begin in earnest.

Further I don't know where you are looking when you see evidence that the poisonous black underculture is disappearing. The illegitimacy rate among blacks, which was 25% in the era of open discrimination, is nearly 70% now. The coarsening of our popular culture is rampant. The hatred expressed towards whites is as virulent as ever. (Google 'Kamau Kambon' and check out what this black intellectual suggested as a solution to our national racial problems at a conference at Howard University last year. His speech is on YouTube.)

Another commenter wrote: "I do think Eric may be right in the qualitative milestone the US may be reaching in finally swallowing a chunk of our domestic racism. I remember when we had our first African American mayor of a big city, Detroit I believe, and it took a while to have another. Fits and starts is more like it. Now, who cares?"

What an unfortunate example he selects for his point. Detroit is an example of what happens to a once-great American city under black management. New Orleans would be another. Did you know that satellite photos show that parts of central Detroit are actually returning to nature? People are setting up small farms there. The city has been hollowed out. A center of American industry was made too unsafe for white people to be able to live there, and the blacks who remained essentially destroyed it.

Can you point to a single example of a former white-majority city or country where the quality of life of the remaining white residents has not been seriously compromised when they became a minority? I can't.

So I can't share your sense of optimism. But that's OK - it's important that white liberals, who mean well and have the noblest sort of intentions - see for themselves the truth of these things. They won't believe it until they see it in their own neighborhoods and their own nation. This is the price we are going to have to pay for our undiscriminating altruism. We are idealistic people - when we think something is the moral and right thing, we will tenaciously hold on to it even if it harms us. That's why about the only places in the world with a track record of free and fair elections are majority-white nations. We voluntarily abstain from rigging elections; we voluntarily pay our taxes, obey laws, don't litter, and so on. It's why the 90% of the world that isn't white so strongly wants to emigrate to our nations.

So let's set a stake right here on the eve of the election of the first black President and check back in five or ten years to see if this election really soothed blacks and led to a new era of racial harmony, or whether it only emboldened them to demand even more and flaunt their power. After 14 years of black rule, it's not hard to guess what white South Africans would predict is in our future.

[qwerty]

Two Concerns

I am not yet a citizen although I have the right to apply for citizenship, but please allow me this one piece of representation to go along with my taxation.

Barack Obama represents the American ideal, an expression of the best of American culture and simultaneously .......

The poetic justice of it is what everyone's so excited about surely.

Here is this man who is the epitome of the American Ethic. And, by having everyone recognize that, he may bring about the annihilation of the great American Hypocrisy.

A final note to address the other great anxiety among our readers, that Barack Obama intends to “redistribute wealth.”

I have to laugh at all the "Socialism!" shreeks.

I grew up with Margaret Thatcher, and she'd be to the left of Dennis Kucinich. Do not worry, America is still a one-party state. I think that the smart element amongst the people who own this country see a confluence of ideals and self-interest with Obama.

There maybe needs to be a swing back from monetary wealth being of prime concern, to social cohesion being more important. You may have to give up some more of your personal wealth but perhaps the upside is you won't have to spend money to have an M-15 trained on your neighbors at all times.

United we stand, though dividends may fall.

I have worried that I would not be "patriotic" enough to become a citizen. There seemed to be a lot of mindless flag-waving required. Not much honor to the flag, all about the wavers. But I think I may have to buy a flag tomorrow, out of respect.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

If Obama wins (I hope he doesn't) then I predict you, ej, will rue the day you made this choice.

While most of us accept that politicians must have a more casual relation with truth than say accountants, still we tend to grant our fellow humans some modicum of trust until proven otherwise.

If Obama wins, I predict that you will discover that Obama and his entire campaign was profoundly and deliberately more deceiptful than you thought possible. My impressions are that Obama's inner sense of himself is pathologically disconnected from how he presents himself (I suspect he's a victim of serious child abuse) and that since his adolescence he has been manipulated by some of the most dangerous, scheming, radical anti-American Marxists of our time.

I fear for my country.

My real fear is that most of the younger people in this nation will never realize the mistake they made in allowing Obama anywhere near the White House. At least you're beyond doubt a smart chap, so I trust that if I'm right in all this, you will some day be capable of seeing as much.

Hopefully, either I'm a whacked out nut job, or Obama loses tonight.

[metalman]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

America is a nation in serious decline. The choice between Obama and McCain represents the severity of that decline. An Obama presidency will be a disaster (and a two term Presidency would be a catastrophe). McCain's would be no different.

That choice of candidates demonstrates the shallowness of American leadership. I am now completely convinced of the ascendancy of Chinese power to supremacy in this century. American power and its Empire are in its death throes. It will be finished.

I'm not anti-American. The decline of America will have severe consequences for many nations. But it is something that real statesmen will recognise and learn to adapt to.

i'd have voted for churchill but he wasn't running. he was a mediocre leader until he got thrown into the fire.

leaders are forged. we'll see what obama's got.

[rros]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Thank you, Eric! You put into eloquent words most of my thinking. I am one who came to this country just for the reasons you have described in relation to America. Trying to emulate my grandfather and his epic life after he was forced to move from Europe to South America at the turn of last century, I too left a good life behind and came to the US from South America seeking the risk taking/reward you have focused on.

In spite of my disgust for 'politicos' I dragged myself to the voting booth today and added my contribution to Mr. Obama. As a white hispanic and part of a minority, this is just too important and I was thrilled to be able to honor the spirit of this country: that anyone -even those with all odds against them and those who suffered the worst of ordeals- can make it, if they believe enough. I also wish him good luck.

[metalman]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

I disagree about McCain or Obama being nutjobs. That said, I couldn't get past McCain's nutty sidekick (I actually felt rather betrayed by her selection), and I perceive Obama as being articulate and bright and clean -- albeit not responsive to my political interests -- so I voted for him despite my misgivings.

and competent.

his choice of palin proves how incompetent he is.

how much irreparable damage can mccain do in 4 years? a lot more than obama can.

i'll take a competent socialist over a half-committed libertarian bumbler heading into a depression, putin, the saudis, et al.

did you see the opec's opening salvo? oil up 10% ... today! :eek:

so who controls the money supply?

[don]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

A President Obama brings several things to the US table, besides the obvious one of not being Bush.

For African Americans it could not be a bigger event. Think Irish-Catholic Kennedy times a million. Good for them, they have it coming, and I sincerely hope that an Obama administration isn't a setup for retrograde racism. The freed slaves and freemen that participated in Reconstruction politics were made to look like buffoons, baboons being the caricature of choice. Obama may have enough intelligence and charisma to avoid being ridiculed for the financial depression he'll probably be blamed for.

I do think Eric may be right in the qualitative milestone the US may be reaching in finally swallowing a chunk of our domestic racism. I remember when we had our first African American mayor of a big city, Detroit I believe, and it took a while to have another. Fits and starts is more like it. Now, who cares?

With this in mind, I asked my wife last night where she thought America is going? To a better national mental health or closer to a roaring national schizophrenia. Racism has been a key to empire forever, brought to a fine point by Kipling's White Man's Burden, a paean to America joining the imperialist poker game, and I don't see that being given up. Gooks, Hadjis...we all know the drill of the Other. Maybe acceptance of African Americans at last, during the downsizing of Pax Americana, a most dangerous time, will prove to be another American Exceptionalism.

If America is going to re-adjust its global reach with less military adventurism and more economic and diplomatic arm twisting, you couldn't ask for a better presidential face to put on it than Obama's. He would be a novelty and a relief to Europe, and in the Third World, forget about it. Of course he might also invade Pakistan or Syria.

An Obama presidency is inherently watchable. Who could help it, at least initially. As watchable as a McCain victory would be forgettable.

[hayekvindicated]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

America is a nation in serious decline. The choice between Obama and McCain represents the severity of that decline. An Obama presidency will be a disaster (and a two term Presidency would be a catastrophe). McCain's would be no different.

That choice of candidates demonstrates the shallowness of American leadership. I am now completely convinced of the ascendancy of Chinese power to supremacy in this century. American power and its Empire are in its death throes. It will be finished.

I'm not anti-American. The decline of America will have severe consequences for many nations. But it is something that real statesmen will recognise and learn to adapt to.

[ASH]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

it's not about that. it's a choice between a lefty and a nutjob and his nuttier sidekick.

I disagree about McCain or Obama being nutjobs. That said, I couldn't get past McCain's nutty sidekick (I actually felt rather betrayed by her selection), and I perceive Obama as being articulate and bright and clean -- albeit not responsive to my political interests -- so I voted for him despite my misgivings.

[metalman]

Re: Vote for Obama. Here's why.

Dunno... maybe EJ is trying to suck up to the new Dear Leader to get bonus points or something.

What I DO know is that the Kennedy family is very pro-Obama, and considering that JFK had the cohones to take on the Fed, we do have some hope there. People rag on Ted Kennedy, but the Kennedy family is generally a patriotic, good family. Perhaps Obama will show his spine and make hard decisions. It's very difficult to know.

There's also hope before a firing squad, too....

comrad phirang,

ej trying to get a libertarian voice in edgewise, or keep a foot in the door as it closes... or whatever metaphor you want to use?

last capitalist standing?

don't hear him changing his opinions for our new leader.