Town halls turning ugly

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Better a drama queen than a Black Queen...

http://www.breitbart.tv/06-flashback...of-disruptors/

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Beck can be a real drama queen at times.

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

The truth about town halls. This guy has a great blog with a lot of good insider info on politics. A former congressman who is not afraid to tell you how things really work in Washington. He called the Election result, the Palin controversy, all to a T.
http://leboutillier.blogspot.com/

The first thing that needs to be known about Congressional Town Halls: they are a taxpayer-funded gimmick to justify franked (free) mailings to promote the event—and thus the Congressman holding the Town Hall.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Glenn Beck on CNN 18 months ago - tearing the "American Health care system" to shreds and there is more of this video from after his full-time return to the air floating around.

An FYI for anyone that didn't think he was a paid actor.

I have a hard time believing that most of the on-air personalities, including on the radio aren't just paid actors that don't believe most of what the political stuff that they say. They say what pays the bills and more.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

according to the LA Times, one House Panel is removing the so-called "death panels" provision from their version of the bill:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4670272.story

even as it says in the article that: "In reality, the provision was designed to allow Medicare to pay doctors who counsel patients about planning for end-of-life decisions. The consultations would be voluntary and would provide information about living wills, healthcare proxies, pain medication and hospice."

More confirmation that the Republicans have won the information war.

Even better is that as Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin issued this proclamation in April of 2008:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:_qjXL_3J08EJ:www.eeo.state.ak.us/archive-50122.html+"HEALTHCARE+DECISIONS+DAY"+palin&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.

WHEREAS, it is estimated that only about 20 percent of people in Alaska have executed an advance directive. Moreover, it is estimated that less than 50 percent of severely or terminally ill patients have an advance directive.

cont.

For anyone that didn't think Palin was totally full of shit, there you go.

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Readers should consider that having a father who was a brilliant theologian might make any sane person "crazy" in one respect or another because there may be no gods, and if such were to be the case, then a "briliiant theologian" is an oxymoron, and a son who ultimately rejected such a father's "brainwashing" probably from birth might not in fact be a lunatic.

Raz, what you appear to be doing here is judging Schaeffer based on your knowing him VERY well. How well can we actually know anyone when most of us lack ability to KNOW what anyone else is thinking or why, and when even if the "tell" us what they are thinking, how do we know they aren't lying?

You have engaged in an ad hominem attack while putting nothing forward to discount or refute what Schaeffer wrote. I took his comments as possibly coming somewhere close to being truth.

I consider your comments to discredit Schaeffer as a failure.

I should not have referred to Frankie as "a near lunatic". That wasn't fair.

I should have described him as I knew him to be back in the mid-1990s: an overbearing, disingenuous loudmouth.
I saw him being interviewed by Rachel Maddow, and while the first five or six minutes weren't bad, the last two minutes were almost total demagogic lies.

In 1993 I wrote a letter to The Christian Activist complaining about a slanderous article they published by a Russian priest. (Frankie was the editor.) He published my letter, editing out EVERYTHING critical, and making it appear to be not only supportive, but deeply grateful on my part for printing the ignorant diatribe of this Russian priest against Western Christians !!! I wrote him again complaining about what he'd done but never received a reply. His conduct toward me was nothing less than despicable, so I hope you'll forgive me for my attitude towards Frankie Schaeffer.

No one needs to "discredit" Frankie. He's done an excellent job of discrediting himself. He has betrayed not only the pro-life movement, but the unwavering teaching of the Orthodox Church since its beginnings in A.D.33. http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articl...-Schaeffer.php

Your first paragraph attempts to defame Dr. Francis Schaeffer by implying that Frankie has abandonded theism in general and the Christian faith in particular, and insulting all theologians. You seem to have a real mean streak, Jim, when it comes to anyone who believes in God.

Not to be overly contentious here Jim, but aren't you judging me? How did you know what was on my mind or in my heart?

By the way, I actually agree with some of what Frankie said, especially about the insurance industry. But his support of a man who not only promotes procured abortion, but infanticide as well, is a scandal to all Orthodox Christians.

Feel free to consider my words concerning Frankie Schaeffer any way you choose. I could care less.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Actually I find this guy Frank Schaeffer interesting. Here is one link to more about him in which he notes: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...ous-right.aspx

"[Our family was] famous but famous in a subculture. Unless you had been involved in a certain small slice of American culture, you probably never heard of me or my dad," he said.

"That's the way real history happens as opposed to the way one would imagine it happening," said Mr. Schaeffer, the prodigal son of the clan, who documented his family's strange odyssey in Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back.

As the book's title implies, something else happened: a reaction to the movement he helped build that is filled with such regret and self-loathing that 20 years later, he still feels the need to shout mea culpa whenever he gets the chance.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

I know Frankie Schaeffer very well. He suffered from polio as a child and had to live in the shadow of his father who was a brilliant theologian. In addittion to a failed career as a B Movie director, all of this has caused an undercurrent of steaming anger throughout Frankie's life.

He used to be a reasoned apologist for truth, but over the past five years or so he has become a near lunatic.

Readers should consider that having a father who was a brilliant theologian might make any sane person "crazy" in one respect or another because there may be no gods, and if such were to be the case, then a "briliiant theologian" is an oxymoron, and a son who ultimately rejected such a father's "brainwashing" probably from birth might not in fact be a lunatic.

Raz, what you appear to be doing here is judging Schaeffer based on your knowing him VERY well. How well can we actually know anyone when most of us lack ability to KNOW what anyone else is thinking or why, and when even if the "tell" us what they are thinking, how do we know they aren't lying?

You have engaged in an ad hominem attack while putting nothing forward to discount or refute what Schaeffer wrote. I took his comments as possibly coming somewhere close to being truth.

I consider your comments to discredit Schaeffer as a failure.

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833

I know Frankie Schaeffer very well. He suffered from polio as a child and had to live in the shadow of his father who was a brilliant theologian. In addittion to a failed career as a B Movie director, all of this has caused an undercurrent of steaming anger throughout Frankie's life.

He used to be a reasoned apologist for truth, but over the past five years or so he has become a near lunatic.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

:p

People here take sides too. I find that funny.

The DC crowd is really all ONE side, and it is NOT your side.

babbittd thinks this is all some "republicrat plot" while the Democans
line up to keep drug prices high. Go figure.

Dood -- when DC "rushes" anything YOU get the shaft! Parties don't matter.
Get a clue. Once they hit DC YOUR vote means nothing. All that matter are
dollars. Stop thinking about Republicrats V. Democans and start thinking
them against us. You'll be much better for it in the end.

[Ghent12]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833

Call the other guys fascists? Check.
Mention business interests involved only on the other side? Check.
Compare the opposition to supporters for a heinous act? Check.

I think I've seen this playbook before. It's used by every unintellectual author making any sort of argument for anything.


I like the way babbittd described the play so far. I think we're in Act II, while Act III will play out after the upcoming "counter-demonstrations" and finally Act IV will end the tragic play with lots of murder and/or suicide, just like Shakespeare.

[sadsack]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

It helps to explain the timeline

The town halls first gained media prominence, including most importantly from Fox News and Rush when that one very vocal woman was recorded and uploaded to YouTube. "HE IS NOT A CITIZEN!!!" You know the one.

This is what helped MSNBC to build their initial narrative that "everyone protesting health care reform is a birther."

After the town halls suddenly gained media attention, the professional lobbyists for both sides starting showing up.

The narrative starts to change again. We started hearing about threats to the older folks. Instead of the opposition being all about anti-socialism, it starts to be pro-medicare and the most sensitive nerve in the largest voting bloc (you folks in the AARP crowd) has been touched.

The RNC and whatever lobbying groups are against the various Democrat party bills have done a brilliant job of shaping the debate, changing the meme and forcing the Democrats to respond. It's been really fun to watch. I think "death panels" has to be the most outlandish piece of agitprop created in my short lifetime, but it has worked!

Apropos - I saw this linked on Patrick.net:

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/141833

Right-Wing Turncoat Gives the Inside Scoop on Why Conservatives Are Rampaging Town Halls

by Francis Schaeffer

The Republican Old Guard are in the fix an atheist would be in if Jesus showed up and raised his mother from the dead: Their world view has just been shattered. Obama's election has driven them over the edge. Consider Former Congressman Dick Armey. Several far right foundations and the multitrillion dollar health-insurance industry have teamed up with him to organize the far right foot soldiers of the Republican Party to intimidate people speaking on behalf of health-care reform. They are using my old shock troops -- given many of these folks were first energized by the Evangelical pro-life movement that my late father and I started in the 1970s. What we did to clinics they are now doing to congressmen and others speaking out for health care reform.


. . .


Conclusion: the Fascist Formula

Here's the emerging American version of the fascist's formula: combine millions of dollars of lobbyists' money with embittered troublemakers who have a small army of not terribly bright white angry people (collected over decades through pro-life mass mailing networks) at their beck and call, ever ready to believe any myth or lie circulated by the semi literate and completely and routinely misinformed right wing -- Evangelical religious underground. Then put his little mob together with the insurance companies' big bucks. That's how it works -- American Brown Shirts at the ready.

What's the results of the fascist formula for the rest of us? Well, think how this "method" worked against Dr. Tiller's abortion clinic and how that story ended. In this case a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to save our economy from going bankrupt because of spiraling health care costs may be lost, not because of a better argument, but because of lies backed up by anti-democratic embittered thuggery. The motive? Revenge on America by the Old White Guys of the far right, and greed by the insurance industry.

What Can Be Done?

It's time that this whole shabby (and insane) business be exposed, vilified in run out of town on a rail by whatever responsible Republicans -- if any -- that are still in the party and who want to see the fortunes of their party revived. Republican leaders taking insurance industry money via lobbying firms and using it to organize what amounts to roving bands of thugs not only need to be exposed but thrown out of the public debate forever. They should become absolute pariahs.

It's time to give this garbage a name: insurance industry funded fascism.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

The whole things has been a fiasco due to the "rush job" the Democans tried to
put on it. The Republicrats gaining the upper hand is a good thing this time
around after the garbage passed in the "rushed" Porkulus Bill and the "rushed"
Crap n' Tax bill. It was after the details of Crap n' Tax leaked out that people
sat up and took notice of the bum's rush they were getting by the far left
crowd in DC. Now, hopefully, this version of HC "reform" (which is now
being called "insurance reform" as it flounders) will die a merciless death and
everyone can get donw to crafting a good bill.

I liked that one clip of the Democan voter who said "Obama took more time
choosing his dog than you guys did on this bill" (paraphrased). Best line I
have heard to date and so true.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

I heard about that and thought how funny it was.

And yes, I'm seeing a large percentage of gray heads at these town halls too. Half are probably there for a good reason, the other half out of pure irrational fear. I've heard scare tactics talking about things like "euthanasia boards".:rolleyes:

Someone else above said it best. Lets scrap this and take our time and do it right.

It helps to explain the timeline

The town halls first gained media prominence, including most importantly from Fox News and Rush when that one very vocal woman was recorded and uploaded to YouTube. "HE IS NOT A CITIZEN!!!" You know the one.

This is what helped MSNBC to build their initial narrative that "everyone protesting health care reform is a birther."

After the town halls suddenly gained media attention, the professional lobbyists for both sides starting showing up.

The narrative starts to change again. We started hearing about threats to the older folks. Instead of the opposition being all about anti-socialism, it starts to be pro-medicare and the most sensitive nerve in the largest voting bloc (you folks in the AARP crowd) has been touched.

The RNC and whatever lobbying groups are against the various Democrat party bills have done a brilliant job of shaping the debate, changing the meme and forcing the Democrats to respond. It's been really fun to watch. I think "death panels" has to be the most outlandish piece of agitprop created in my short lifetime, but it has worked!

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

the state of grass-roots confusion in the U.S.:

Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

“I had to politely explain that, ‘Actually, sir, your health care is being provided by the government, but he wasn’t having any of it.”

I heard about that and thought how funny it was.

And yes, I'm seeing a large percentage of gray heads at these town halls too. Half are probably there for a good reason, the other half out of pure irrational fear. I've heard scare tactics talking about things like "euthanasia boards".:rolleyes:

Someone else above said it best. Lets scrap this and take our time and do it right.