Town halls turning ugly

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

After 9/11 Americans were warned by President Bush, his spokesman Ari Fleischer, AG Ashcroft and SoD Rumself to watch what they say and self described "Patriots" across the country took that as a cue to call out anyone with a few unanswered questions about the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan as traitors, commies, etc.

Okay. Immediately after 9/11 we didn't know when or where the next attack would take place. For all we knew it could have been nuclear. Slightly different setting than today, wouldn't you agree?

Do you know of anyone who was harrased or arrested by the FBI or Homeland Security as a result of being "called out" by a fellow American?

The surgeon who performed the mascectomy on my wife told me Thursday afternoon that a fellow surgeon who attended medical school with him was briefly detained and questioned by FBI agents about his attendance at a town hall meeting and his prior attendance at a Tea Party protest. Who do you think "called him out"? Do you think that the present administration is placing those who attend such meetings under some level of surveillance because they are viewed as a threat to national security, or simply a threat to the President's agenda?

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly



re: the SEIU fight

This video begins midway through the fight, but it does begin with a man in an SEIU shirt on the ground getting kicked.

Another guy sort of flies in from the right to join in on the action and is pulled down by a different guy in an SEIU shirt before quickly getting back up again.

And I think the one that was pulled down is the one was allegedly beaten by 5 SEIU members (Gladley).

Impossible to tell who attacked first from this video or if fighting words were issued.

is there video evidence that shows 5 SEIU members beating this guy up that I haven't seen?

One of the witnesses is shouting at one of SEIU members and about two of them beating the guy that has received attention from the MSM (Gladley) and he responds by saying that Gladley attacked someone else first. A minister? It's inaudible.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

I didn't vote for George W. Bush, but I don't recall the "hush it, rush it, shut down the opposition activities" of the Bush White House. Could you refresh my memory?

After 9/11 Americans were warned by President Bush, his spokesman Ari Fleischer, AG Ashcroft and SoD Rumsfeld to watch what they say and self described "Patriots" across the country took that as a cue to call out anyone with a few unanswered questions about the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan as traitors, commies, etc.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

'Wacist'? No corporate patron, flack, or poobah would be anywhere near anything that wouldn't pass muster with the NAACP, La Raza,any crapversity consultant, etc., so you're clearly confused on your conspiracies.
Unless you mean Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright? Doubtful.

precisely why three large corporations moved their advertisements on the Fox News channel off of the Glenn Beck show

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/...3710.asp?c=rss

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Maybe USA citizens should be banned from posting?

I take it good sir (good sheep?) that you're from New Zealand?

I also take it you are observing that us Americans are being a tad bit more rude on this thread than others?

Probably so. Perhaps this is an example of power corrupting. Americans have ruled the roost for about a century now, depending on how you count. We're getting a tad big for our britches, if I do say so. Most politicians (except of course which ever one I favor at the moment :rolleyes are corrupt lying thieves. Political discourse has become vulgar.

This might be ok, however. Perhaps it's like a bottom in the market, in this case a bottom in political morality. Just when things look darkest, they slowly start climbing back up, in fits and starts.

Or sometimes one calls it wrong, and the bottom is nowhere yet in sight.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

No, all opinions are welcome. Just make the dialogue constructive, whatever your political affiliation. Shouting each other down is not in good form if you truly intend on finding common ground.

Shifting gears are we now?

When I object to your assuming the right to decide whether I can speak, you lapse to just offering fatherly advice on how I might best speak constructively.

Sorry, no dice. You still don't get to determine if I can speak.

[a warren]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Maybe USA citizens should be banned from posting?

[bcassill]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

My apologies if I came across a little strong. It's just that if you really mean to fix a problem you really need to be grown up about and debate the pros and cons. Don't grand stand. Don't shout down your opponent. There are just better ways to handle this. Not to be misconstrued, I'm just being a little sarcastic with my opening.

[bcassill]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Is this just conservatives who should only speak up if bcassill considers their comments constructive, or should liberals obey the same constraints :rolleyes:?

In other words, sir, your evaluation of whether what I say is constructive or not does not control my right to say it.

No, all opinions are welcome. Just make the dialogue constructive, whatever your political affiliation. Shouting each other down is not in good form if you truly intend on finding common ground.

[FRED]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Too much name calling and other non-iTulip like behavior.

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Raz, if you'd like me to post many dozens of blatantly racist posters, photos, quotes and etc from the Tea Baggers, Birthers and Deathers you just let me know. They aren't hard to find - you could use Teh Google yourself if you like.

And I'm sure I'd have hated the Berkley crowd as much had I been alive to see it. Just about the only people on the planet I want to punch as a reflexive action are the Trust Fund Stoners.

I also don't object to protest. I do object to death threats to Congressmen and calls to violence to shut down the debate.

To be clear... you don't have to look any further than the 9/11 whackjobs to find loons on the left, but when an entire party, including its brightest stars and entire official establishment, has come so unmoored from sanity and reality that its most recent Vice Presidential candidate is saying stark raving mad things as...



...I see no reason to take that party seriously, or to even pretend that good faith negotiation is possible. They can only be opposed and defeated.

I agree with most of what you just said, so I'm not looking for a fight, WDC. With that preface outfront where it belongs, I will now state my agreement with Sarah Palin. (Heavens! Did I really say that?)

President Obama has no problem with infanticide. Not just procured abortion, but infanticide. To me, (and I'm entitled to my opinion - at least at the present time), he is a moral reprobate. I don't want anyone of his world view making any "health" decisions for me. Period.

The Left can talk about the poor, global warming, health care as a "right", Halliburton & Cheney, and a hundred other things, but as long as they hold to this manifest evil in the mass murder of the most innocent and helpless of all Americans, as a core idealogical position, no less, then I have little regard for their opinions in other areas. I'm not opposed to health care reform per se, and I'm certainly no friend of the insurance industry. But when it comes to the rationing of care according to the guidelines laid out by the likes of Obama, then to loosly quote you, "I won't even pretend that good-faith negotiation is possible, but I see them only as a force to be opposed and defeated".

I don't believe Palin should be Vice-President, much less President. But I share her fears about life and death decisions concerning medical care coming from the people placed in positions of authority by this president.
And I take no comfort in the possibility that their successors in those positions might be appointed by Republicans - they haven't shown themselves trustworthy either.

About fifteen years ago Joseph Sobran said that "...most of the people who work for the United States government would be willing to work for any government. Had they worked for the Vichy French they would have dutifully helped the Germans round up the Jews, and had they worked for the Romans they would have politely walked in step down to the colliseum to watch the Christians be thrown to the lions".

I believe that Sobran was a perceptive observer not only of history, but of fallen human nature as well. And I not only agree with him, but I believe the moral and social climate of today is worse than when he wrote those words.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

As a conservative, I'll say that if you've got something constructive to add to the conversation, then by all means show up and participate. Otherwise, shut up and stay home.

Is this just conservatives who should only speak up if bcassill considers their comments constructive, or should liberals obey the same constraints :rolleyes:?

In other words, sir, your evaluation of whether what I say is constructive or not does not control my right to say it.

[metalman]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

You know, after seeing some of the videos on this, I swear that half of the "angry" crowd are senior citizens. No offense to the retired crowd here, but that just makes me want to go to one of these functions and scream at the top of my lungs about how I'm not going to stand and let my country go down the socialist path with government run health care. In fact, we need to get rid of two of the biggest welfare programs in existence: Social Security and Medicare. Then I'd probably go on to say something along the lines of how I'm tired of supporting a bunch of whining blue hairs with government hand outs. I want my tax dollars back! Do you hear me!:mad:

I'm willing to bet that the silence would be deafening.:p This just goes to show how stupid this charade has become. Health care is broken whether you believe in a government run option or not. What we need is a real debate about this, not a bunch of stooges showing up to yell and shout at the instigation of Limbaugh and Hannity. As a conservative, I'll say that if you've got something constructive to add to the conversation, then by all means show up and participate. Otherwise, shut up and stay home.

[bcassill]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

You know, after seeing some of the videos on this, I swear that half of the "angry" crowd are senior citizens. No offense to the retired crowd here, but that just makes me want to go to one of these functions and scream at the top of my lungs about how I'm not going to stand and let my country go down the socialist path with government run health care. In fact, we need to get rid of two of the biggest welfare programs in existence: Social Security and Medicare. Then I'd probably go on to say something along the lines of how I'm tired of supporting a bunch of whining blue hairs with government hand outs. I want my tax dollars back! Do you hear me!;):p;)

I'm willing to bet that the silence would be deafening.:p This just goes to show how stupid this charade has become. Health care is broken whether you believe in a government run option or not. What we need is a real debate about this, not a bunch of stooges showing up to yell and shout at the instigation of Limbaugh and Hannity. As a conservative, I'll say that if you've got something constructive to add to the conversation, then by all means show up and participate. Otherwise, shut up and stay home.

[metalman]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Raz, if you'd like me to post many dozens of blatantly racist posters, photos, quotes and etc from the Tea Baggers, Birthers and Deathers you just let me know. They aren't hard to find - you could use Teh Google yourself if you like.

And I'm sure I'd have hated the Berkley crowd as much had I been alive to see it. Just about the only people on the planet I want to punch as a reflexive action are the Trust Fund Stoners.

I also don't object to protest. I do object to death threats to Congressmen and calls to violence to shut down the debate.

To be clear... you don't have to look any further than the 9/11 whackjobs to find loons on the left, but when an entire party, including its brightest stars and entire official establishment, has come so unmoored from sanity and reality that its most recent Vice Presidential candidate is saying stark raving mad things as...



...I see no reason to take that party seriously, or to even pretend that good faith negotiation is possible. They can only be opposed and defeated.

agree with you... now pls fred move to political abyss before a mild mannered passerby gets the idea we're the internet equivalent of fight club.