Town halls turning ugly

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

About fifteen years ago Joseph Sobran said that "...most of the people who work for the United States government would be willing to work for any government. Had they worked for the Vichy French they would have dutifully helped the Germans round up the Jews, and had they worked for the Romans they would have politely walked in step down to the colliseum to watch the Christians be thrown to the lions".

Awesome quote Raz. I agree with it. Many are mindless minions.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

the state of grass-roots confusion in the U.S.:

Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) told The Washington Post that, at a recent town-hall meeting, a man stood up and told him to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”

“I had to politely explain that, ‘Actually, sir, your health care is being provided by the government, but he wasn’t having any of it.”

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

here's an "astroturf" update...

My local favorite libertarian radio talkshow host brought these to my attention -- good stuff!

http://www.editorsguild.com/LaborNew...borNewsid=1563

Labor Plans Two Mass Mobilizations In August
08/04/2009

Organized labor plans two mass mobilizations in August -- and beyond -- on health care and on the Employee Free Choice Act, interviews at the AFL-CIO Executive Council show.

Both campaigns are to counter massive business-backed advertising blitzes against both health care revision and against the labor law, which is the top priority of the federation, Change To Win and other unions.

The campaigns were discussed at council’s 1-day meeting July 28 at the National Labor College in Silver Spring, Maryland, just outside Washington. The campaigns are needed because the Democratic-run 111th Congress -- stymied by divisions within its own majority -- put off final decisions on both issues until after it returns to D.C. on September 7. Congress was scheduled to recess July 31 but may stay through early August.

Five congressional committees are drafting the health care legislation. In two key ones -- Senate Finance and House Energy and Commerce -- it has stalled due to Democratic divisions. The Employee Free Choice Act is delayed because key senators discussing changes in that bill are involved in the health care talks, too.

The delays give unions time, and the need, to mobilize, the staffers added.

The health care mobilization already started, and was going even as the council met. Unions arranged for 50,000 phone calls to be funneled to Congress on the issue on July 28. And on July 27, the Alliance of Retired Americans, the AFL-CIO’s affiliate for union and other retirees, arranged two conference calls, of 100 people each, to talk health care campaign strategy, Alliance President Barbara Easterling added.

And the Employee Free Choice Act mobilization aims at the fact that Democrats now lack the 60 votes needed to shut off a planned GOP-led filibuster against the bill.

“The important thing is to preserve the essential elements of the Employee Free Choice Act: Restoring the freedom to organize and collectively bargain, and not the details” of how exactly to achieve that goal, said AFL-CIO Organizing Director Stewart Acuff, who is directing the campaign.

“That’s the measure by which any tweaking of the law” will be judged, he added.

The council reaffirmed its strong preference for the legislation’s centerpiece:

Majority sign-up, where once unions get verified union election authorization cards from a majority of workers at a site, they -- not the bosses -- can choose between automatic immediate recognition of the union or a National Labor Relations Board-run election.

Other alternatives to majority sign-up, including mail-in ballots and quick NLRB-run elections, received scant discussion, staffers said. But they are not ruled out, Acuff added. “Both would be dramatically better than what we have now” under labor law, he said. Present law allows long campaigns with rampant employer intimidation and labor law-breaking. The Obama administration backs the Employee Free Choice Act.

Senate sponsor Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, also cautions that majority sign-up is still on the table. “Nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to,” he says of the legislation.

The Employee Free Choice Act mobilization includes tens of thousands of letters, hundreds of thousands of phone calls, the largest march in the history of Arkansas, and a coalition of 1,500 businesses supporting the bill. It’s all designed to push senators in 10 states, including Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, Nebraska, Louisiana and Maine, to support the law and oppose the filibuster.

Labor’s motivation and mobilization for the health care overhaul, where it is working with Obama, is complicated by competing versions of the legislation, said AFSCME President Gerald McEntee, the AFL-CIO political committee chair, and others.

That mobilization drive also faces two more problems: Foes who simplify the issue and Finance Committee proposals to drop requiring all employers to pay for health care and to eliminate the proposed government-run competitor to health insurers.

“We reviewed what’s happened so far and talked about our success in beating back the idea of taxing employee health benefits,” AFL-CIO Legislative Director Bill Samuel said. But if Senate Finance decides to let employers off the hook and to ax the government-run competitor, “We’ll have to see” what to do, McEntee added.

In the meantime, his union alone is mobilizing an estimated 16,000 members to campaign for health care. It’s also running ads featuring union nurses talking about the need for health care reform for both their patients and themselves.

“We also did something we’ve never done before: The Health Care Reform Coalition -- a number of unions -- contracted with Working America on the campaign. For $50,000, they’ll cover a state. For $60,000, they’ll send in a roving team. We’ve put in $300,000 and the AFL-CIO has put in another $100,000,” McEntee said. “The president and the Democrats are trying to legislate in a very complicated area, covering one-sixth of the economy, and it’s hard to cover that in a good sound bite.”

AND...






I think it's time to bury this bill and start all over...

Let's take our time and do it right.

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Georgia Senator Isakson (R):

One would think that even Republican diehards wouldn't enjoy being blatantly lied to by Palin, but going by her popularity, that isn't the case.

Here's a link to the thread on Schumer's biometrics program, that's Schumer - DEMOCRAT - NY - lest anyone accuse me of bias for focusing on Republicans in this particular post.

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...ight=biometric

[WDCRob]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Georgia Senator Isakson (R):

I just had a phone call where someone said Sarah Palin's web site had talked about the House bill having death panels on it where people would be euthanized. How someone could take an end of life directive or a living will as that is nuts. You're putting the authority in the individual rather than the government.

...

This was thoroughly debated in the Senate committee. It's voluntary. Every state in America has an end of life directive or durable power of attorney provision. For the peace of mind of your children and your spouse as well as the comfort of knowing the government won't make these decisions, it's a very popular thing. Just not everybody's aware of it.

[metalman]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

it's all looking up after 10 yrs...

[doom&gloom]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

You misunderstood my first response which may not have been clear but did reference the hushing by the administration of people that criticized their warplans for Iraq. And still you implied that criticism of the government immediately after 9/11 constitutes a possible national security threat in the eyes of the government.

If I did imply such then I was (a) wrong, or (b) unclear in my presentation. I do believe that suspicious activity in late 2001 - early 2002 should have been reported, as it in fact was when the antics of some Muslim clerics alarmed airline passengers. But I most certainly did NOT mean that those who spoke out against invading Iraq should have been detained and/or harrased by Federal Agents.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Apparently we do have differences - but not about the two statements above. :confused:
I was a loud and vocal critic of G. W. Dumbass's Iraqi Adventure from day one. And I feared the "Patriot" Act for it's provisions and it's very name!

You misunderstood my first response which may not have been clear but did reference the hushing by the administration of people that criticized their warplans for Iraq. And still you implied that criticism of the government immediately after 9/11 constitutes a possible national security threat in the eyes of the government.

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

We've got problems at GOP headquarters:

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/5374

Republican Rep Jack Kingston of Georgia said about the (Palin's) "death panel" comment: "It’s a scare tactic, no question about it."

***

And from the Dept. of Historical Revision / the Shoe is now on the other foot:

It probably is a scare tactic. But it doesn't change my agreement in principle with what she said about government bureaucrats deciding who lives and who dies. My thoughts are posted in this thread as a response to WDCrob.

[Raz]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Raz, one of our differences is that I do not think that when citizens criticize the warplans of their government, that actions constitutes a threat to national security.

However, I do think the present administration is asking for supporters to rat out dissenters because they're viewed as a threat to the agenda of the administration.

And 2 + 2 = 4.

Apparently we do have differences - but not about the two statements above. :confused:
I was a loud and vocal critic of G. W. Dumbass's Iraqi Adventure from day one. And I feared the "Patriot" Act for it's provisions and it's very name!

[WDCRob]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

agree with you... now pls fred move to political abyss before a mild mannered passerby gets the idea we're the internet equivalent of fight club.

Agreed. Thought that was already called for and done.

And I'll apologize for making it sound like I think all of the people at the town halls are racists - I don't believe that. But there's clearly a heavy current of plain ol' racism among many of the participants and they feel disturbingly comfortable in showing it.

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

We've got problems at GOP headquarters:

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/5374

Republican Rep Jack Kingston of Georgia said about the (Palin's) "death panel" comment: "It’s a scare tactic, no question about it."

***

And from the Dept. of Historical Revision / the Shoe is now on the other foot:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-52608562.html

Angry Mobs Department: That was then, this is now
By: MARK TAPSCOTT
Editorial Page Editor
08/06/09 5:31 PM EDT
Democrats screaming to high heaven about those disrupted town hall meetings could use a little refresher on recent history concerning their partisans' conduct in 2005 in response to President George W. Bush's attempt to get Congress to move on a genuine Social Security reform.
My friend Jon Henke at The Next Right offers these tidbits:

· NW Progressive Institute, March 2005: "a boisterous crowd which frequently interrupted the discussion with shouts and hard nosed questions. ... Democrats in the audience who were interrupting the panel.... the crowd erupted in anger... Democrats in the audience started shouting him down again."

· Savannah Morning News, March 2005: "By now, Jack Kingston is used to shouted questions, interruptions and boos. Republican congressmen expect such responses these days when they meet with constituents about President Bush's proposal to overhaul Social Security."

· USA Today, March 2005: "Shaken by raucous protests at open "town hall"-style meetings last month ... Santorum was among dozens of members of Congress who ran gantlets of demonstrators and shouted over hecklers at Social Security events last month. Many who showed up to protest were alerted by e-mails and bused in by anti-Bush organizations such as MoveOn.org and USAction, a liberal advocacy group. They came with prepared questions and instructions on how to confront lawmakers."

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Raz, one of our differences is that I do not think that when citizens criticize the warplans of their government, that actions constitutes a threat to national security.

However, I do think the present administration is asking for supporters to rat out dissenters because they're viewed as a threat to the agenda of the administration.

And 2 + 2 = 4.