Town halls turning ugly

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Just because they're protesting against something that you happen to agree with them on, doesn't mean that most of them would be there if the shoe was on the other foot.

There was no wave of protests over Medicare Part D, the No Child Left Alone Act or the exploding deficits during the Bush/Republican Congress years.

So far after Bush, there has been but one small protest against the war in Afghanistan that paled in size compared to past years when the focus was Iraq and a Republican President.

I think you guys are being a little nieve here...

And do you really think the Republicans in the House are pushing the birther stuff because a few fringe nut supporters forced it on them? Maybe I associate with the wrong people, but regular republicans (successful, normal people with families and jobs) have been warning me about the 'Manchurian Candidate' since early in 2008 at least.

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

If any protest is organized in any way by an outside agency, it is AstroTurf and not a genuine grass roots movement?

Its more of a who is doing the organizing and under what circumstances. Did you read the paper? Can you not see how they're trying to present a certain image to the speaker/congressmen/media instead of being serious about representing their views? To put it as the paper does, "pack the hall"? Did you go to the link cited at the end of the paper and read up about that site and the man who runs it?

"MacGuffie is a volunteer for FreedomWorks, the industry funded group that helps organize and support the tea party protests. But he denies that his small group has any direct affiliation with FreedomWorks. "We are recommending with that memo that other grassroots groups that share our view should go to the townhalls of their members and use the strategy that we did," MacGuffie told me, confirming the memo's authenticity. "We are trying to get into that town halls to make them understand that they do not have the unanimous support from people in their communities."

If a ACORN party member was going around doing this sort of thing with this buddies what would you say then?

People are angry.

But what if they're angry for the wrong reasons due to misinformation and/or manipulation of facts? Being angry isn't enough, you have to be right too. Hell, the paper clearly states that these "protesters" aren't even using their own questions, they're being handed out to them before they get to the town hall to shout out randomly.

Have the debate.

Debate is good, these people aren't doing that though. They're "packing town halls" to shout slogans and questions that get handed out to them prior to going in, they aren't interested in presenting views only making the congressmen/rep look "dazed and confused" on camera. Its theater. Its disgusting.

Make them explain their position and defend it.

They usually just shout down and boo the rep when he/she actually tries to do this...

Or do you think only ACORN has the right to protest and make themselves heard?

No, and I don't like them either.

For the record I don't view myself as Rep, Dem, or a Libertarian. While all of these parties have some views that I agree with IMO they are all being run by incompetents and/or corrupt stooges right now (have been for a while really) who espouse certain views but don't really appear to believe any of it. Yes, that is a very pessmisitic view point, but given how things are going it doesn't seem to me to be wholly unreasonable to have.

[flintlock]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

My original post was merely to bring to attention the anger going on in general at congress. Not to pick sides with special interest groups. Personally I'm a fan of the good old "tar and feathering" of days gone by.

Unfortunately, the most organized are the special groups like abortion( both sides), birthers, truthers, space aliens, etc. When mainstream Americans try to organized they get called names and lumped in with the nuts. :rolleyes:

So stop hijacking this thread and lumping everyone in with the kooks please.

Imagine, Americans having the nerve to, "gasp", protest taxes. Where did they get that idea? Somebody better shut down that crazy way of thinking before things get out of hand.

[radon]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Classic Colbert last night.

The Colbert Report	Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c
Merry Barackmas
www.colbertnation.com
Colbert Report Full Episodes Political Humor Tasers

I'm still thinking about and laughing out loud @ The Three Wisemen

And after Catiline came Caesar.......

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

- sorry - i did not see this; I do not believe in ugly crap like that.

I see no need for an apology, audrey_girl. Most good political theater, for whichever side, is organized ahead of time. This is a fine example of that.

Such organization doesn't mean the people doing it are insincere. It does mean we have to remain aware that all powerful interests may, if they can, play upon the sincere concerns of people to promote positions that may or may not be what they appear.

Our inborn tendencies to participate in such theater when we agree, to find such theater disgusting when we disagree, and to be swayed by such theater either way as if it were entirely spontaneous are all tendencies of which we must be reminded now and then.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Has political discourse always been so knuckleheaded in the US ?

Do you mean such as when people label some of the more prominent spokesmen and women for the opposition "extremist hate-preachers"?

Yup. It's been going on a long long time, and not just in the United States either.

[seanm123]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

A little brawling now and then could be a good thing for Democracy.




http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/200...lators-attack/

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Classic Colbert last night.

The Colbert Report	Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c
Merry Barackmas
www.colbertnation.com
Colbert Report Full Episodes Political Humor Tasers

I'm still thinking about and laughing out loud @ The Three Wisemen

[Slimprofits]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Has political discourse always been so knuckleheaded in the US ?

Would love to hear from Nickerson, EJ, GRG55 and few others on this one.

I tend to think it started to get much worse during the 90s with the proliferation of talk radio, cable television, 24 hours of coverage and eventually the internet.

[lurker]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Whatever your politics I think these incidents are a sign that as the economy goes to hell things could well disintegrate completely, and any slight vestiges of national cohesion between americans at odds with each other politically could be lost.

And the likes of Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh and other extremist hate-preachers should count themselves at least partly responsible. Has political discourse always been so knuckleheaded in the US ?

[audrey_girl]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Most of the recent town hall stuff is astroturf. No really:





If they don't get enough people on hand to do that they bus more nutjobs in to harass whoever is speaking. This is even worse than those BS "Tea parties" we saw a little while back.


If it was for the right reasons maybe I could get behind it too, but most of these people are nutjob birthers, FEMA camp/NWO "activists", and straight up racists. Case in point...


My that is a lovely video you've got there...

- sorry - i did not see this; I do not believe in ugly crap like that.

I will pull this post. I just saw the fox video here on youtube about senator spector getting heckled at a town meeting and posted the video - did not see this other ugly stuff , I will be more careful with my postings in the future.

- again terribly sorry

apologize to all who are offended

[Ghent12]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

What discussion? You're at best just talking down to me with sarcastic replies.

Well you didn't bring much to the conversation except to question the ethos and even the definition of "grass roots movements" in this country. If anything, you proved how little value any definition holds.

Let me just see if I understand your position. If any protest is organized in any way by an outside agency, it is AstroTurf and not a genuine grass roots movement? Okay, fair enough; I don't think there have ever been any grass roots movements in the country, in that case.

However, AstroTurf by your definition can still represent the views of the people, just as much as cookie-cutter politicians can from time to time (when they are not stealing).

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

(Never mind .. don't bother responding .. there is no hope for this discussion.)

What discussion? You're at best just talking down to me with sarcastic replies.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Refutation of a statement requires facts, not none to subtle sarcasm.

Yup.



Just the facts.

Or do you consider all that name calling "just facts"?

(Never mind .. don't bother responding .. there is no hope for this discussion.)

[mesyn191]

Re: Town halls turning ugly

Thank-you for your well thought out, factual and respectful discussion of important issues :rolleyes:.

Refutation of a statement requires facts, not none to subtle sarcasm.

As for facts....I posted images of leaked documents showing how most of these "angry town hall meetings" are really being set up by "party action committees" instead of actual spontaneous events by locals. That is text book astroturf, aka fake grass roots organizing.

Many of these "angry town hall meetings" have been about Obama's birth certs and such, its not like they're hard to find you know so I don't see how you can call that into question. And yes, if you're a birther than you're a nutjob and full of BS, hell even some of the repub's on TV have started to call it nonsense (O'Reilly and Coulter).

As for being racists I c/p'd the relevent quote from one of audrey's links....

(In other words, I hope readers of your comment will notice that you were just name calling and pay your remark appropriately little regard.)

It sure seems those names are accurate so whats the problem?