People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

[Ghent12]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

Not another 9/11 thread... At least this concentrates on the flight paths and not blatantly ignorant speculation of materials science topics.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

This is the sort of inconsistency that makes it easy to dismiss all the elaborate conspiracy stuff: ... that's just not physically possible so the report itself is full of shzt

You never read through to the article I was quoting from, did you, GRG55. That was the point of what I quoted -- it was mocking the official story. Yes, the flight path of Flight 77 alleged by the official story was not physically possible. I entirely agree.

I have purchased and viewed the videos published by http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/. I have uploaded the three best of them to thepythoniccow.us. You are welcome to view them, at:

• http://thepythoniccow.us/pilotsfor91...kBox_Chap2.mpg
• http://thepythoniccow.us/pilotsfor91...OnPentagon.mpg
• http://thepythoniccow.us/pilotsfor91...nterAttack.mpg

The license under which I purchased these videos allows for sharing with a few friends, but not general distribution. PilotsFor911Truth needs the income from the sales. So I will take these videos down when and if I see more than a few viewers (it's my website, so I can view the server logs to see what is accessed.)

Jesse Ventura has just covered this same issue of what hit the Pentagon in his "Conspiracy Theory" show. It was posted on YouTube a couple of days ago at Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura 'The 911 Pentagon' Season 2. The show includes a direct interview of an aircraft simulator operator stating that the flight path supposedly taken by AA Flight 77, a Boeing 757, was both too difficult for even himself to fly, and exceeded the physical limits of the aircraft itself. A physically impossible flight path -- just as you observed. The show also includes an interview with a Pentagon worker who crawled out the hole that the "aircraft" made, minutes after the initial impact explosion. There was no plane, no part of any plane. The first on-the-site reporter with a video camera still has his video; no plane, no plane parts, and a hole far too small for a Boeing 757.

Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.

Until a few more people realize the extent of the evil we're dealing with here, we won't be preserving either our wealth or our freedom.

[Kcim67]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

Hiroshima and Nagasaki of course didn't have anything to do with this rapid re-alignment of the Japanese psyche to a more pro US Anglo Saxon Kow Towdry!

[Kcim67]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

On this subject you do not seem capable of learning, they say one man practising sportsmanship is better than 100 men teaching it, you spoke with forked tongue a lesson that the previous indiginous peoples of your land also know too well. We reap what we sow and the seeds of many of our current woes were sown long ago. At that time we were too ignorant to care about the damage we were causing beyond our own borders, only interested in our own short term economic and political gains we cannot afford to continue along that path, unless as your words tend to infer you really want a war with everyone who fails to conform to your way of thinking!

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

On this subject you do not seem capable of learning, ...

Are you responding to a Starving Steve post? If so, I agree with your comments. If not, I'm confused.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

Speaking of conspiracy theories, I heard a great one the other day that really ties all the threads together on 9/11.

It seems that 9/11 was pulled off by nineteen Saudis directed by a guy from a cave in Afghanistan. No, really. No laughing. These fellows apparently had some kind of magical powers. Not only did they manage to elude the most extensive security apparatus in the world while they planned the caper. They somehow got the US Air Force to stand down!!-- rather than carry out normal procedures when planes deviate from their flight paths. These were some smart Arabs! With virtually no training or flight experience, they carried out some amazing maneuvers and penetrated the defenses of the most highly defended building in the world without a defensive shot fired or missile launched! Can you believe it? They also rammed planes into the twin towers of the WTC, which burned briefly and then collapsed. They brought steel-reinforced sky scrapers down with fire for the first time in history. The skills of these guys! More amazing still, they managed to collapse Building #7 of the WTC complex, a 49 storey building, without even hitting it!! I tell you, these were some talented guys. Not only that, but they managed to implode all three buildings in their own footprints, just as if they been professionally imploded with explosives. I'm not sure why they did the footprint thing. Either they were trying to prevent "collateral damage," or they were just showing off.

You may have already heard this theory, so I needn't go on. These conspirators had such magical powers that they even revived the fortunes of President Bush, whose poll numbers at the time were--not to put too fine a point on it--in the toilet. They got everyone royally pissed-off at Arabs, rallied popular support for the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, added hundreds of billions to the defense budget, enabled a police state in the US, and provided the US government–which had grown nostalgic for the Cold War--with a scary foreign enemy to distract people while Wall Street had its way with them.

Is this a great conspiracy theory, or what?

[shiny!]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

Speaking of conspiracy theories, I heard a great one the other day that really ties all the threads together on 9/11.

It seems that 9/11 was pulled off by nineteen Saudis directed by a guy from a cave in Afghanistan. No, really. No laughing. These fellows apparently had some kind of magical powers. Not only did they manage to elude the most extensive security apparatus in the world while they planned the caper. They somehow got the US Air Force to stand down!!-- rather than carry out normal procedures when planes deviate from their flight paths. These were some smart Arabs! With virtually no training or flight experience, they carried out some amazing maneuvers and penetrated the defenses of the most highly defended building in the world without a defensive shot fired or missile launched! Can you believe it? They also rammed planes into the twin towers of the WTC, which burned briefly and then collapsed. They brought steel-reinforced sky scrapers down with fire for the first time in history. The skills of these guys! More amazing still, they managed to collapse Building #7 of the WTC complex, a 49 storey building, without even hitting it!! I tell you, these were some talented guys. Not only that, but they managed to implode all three buildings in their own footprints, just as if they been professionally imploded with explosives. I'm not sure why they did the footprint thing. Either they were trying to prevent "collateral damage," or they were just showing off.

You may have already heard this theory, so I needn't go on. These conspirators had such magical powers that they even revived the fortunes of President Bush, whose poll numbers at the time were--not to put too fine a point on it--in the toilet. They got everyone royally pissed-off at Arabs, rallied popular support for the US to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, added hundreds of billions to the defense budget, enabled a police state in the US, and provided the US government–which had grown nostalgic for the Cold War--with a scary foreign enemy to distract people while Wall Street had its way with them.

Is this a great conspiracy theory, or what?

+1

[c1ue]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

They brought steel-reinforced sky scrapers down with fire for the first time in history.

The WTC towers weren't the first steel-reinforced buildings demolished by fire. See Delpht and other examples.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

I might comment that I have never had any use or respect for John Foster Dulles. But I have the highest respect for former President, Dwight David Eisenhower.

The Cold War was designed and executed by U.S. Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles. In my view, the Cold War was absurd, and the spending on the Cold War including the Vietnam War (part of the Cold War) was a complete waste of money.

My grandfather in Duluth hated John Foster Dulles, and now I understand why. Dulles was the ultimate Repuke.

For kids or people who are just dropping in to view this post, a "Repuke" is a Republican. Puke in English means vomit. We now refer to Republicans for what they really are and always were. But President Eisenhower was not the typical Republican; he was outstanding and honourable. He was also an outstanding and most honourable general in WWII.

If you were aware that the Cold War was a sucker's game, then it must be your ferocious, repulsive anti-Arab, anti-Islam racism that prevents your seeing that you're being played for a sucker again.

It was said during the Cold War that, "If the Communist threat did not exist, the US would have to invent it." The threat of nuclear war and the notion of a Communist (or capitalist) under every bed provided American and Soviet ruling elites excellent means to frighten and control their own citizens, justify enormous arms expenditures, and legitimize power projection abroad in the name of saving the world from Communism (or capitalism).

Do we really have to choose between supporting the Shah of Iran and the present theocratic thugs? It’s a ludicrous choice and it ignores one of the most important geopolitical facts: that the US ruling class has been nurturing political Islam since it first allied in 1947 with the House of Saud. If the US did not actually invent modern political Islam, for over half a century it has promoted it, funded it, trained it, armed it, and furnished it with a political rationale for its existence.

US ruling circles and reactionary forces acting in the name of Islam are in a co-dependent relationship: they need each other and work together covertly, even while they publicly attack each other in word and deed. Ruling elites in Muslim nations like Iran use political Islam and the threat from the US to control their own people with an iron fist concealed in a glove of religious fervor, while the US frightens and controls its own citizens with the supposed terror Islamic threat.

There has been a strong collaborative relationship between the theocratic rulers of Iran and US rulers which continues to this day. The 1979 Iranian revolution might have established a secular, anti-capitalist revolutionary democracy and swept the Middle East. Instead TIME=s 1979 Man of the Year, Ayatollah Khomeini, and the mullahs successfully channeled the mass popular movement into a right-wing theocracy, using nationalism and religion to crush the revolution and consolidate the class nature of Iranian society.

In November, 1979 Iranians took over the US Embassy in Tehran, taking 50 Americans hostage. Focusing on the Great Satan allowed the Ayatollah Khomeini to put up a show of radicalism to satisfy his followers while he liquidated tens of thousands of worker and student revolutionaries in the spring and summer of 1980. In October, 1980 emissaries of the Republican Party met secretly with the Ayatollah's regime and persuaded it not to release the hostages until the election was over, thus guaranteeing the defeat of Jimmy Carter. From 1983 through 1988 the Reagan Administration, in collaboration with Israel, sold arms to the Khomeini regime in Iran and sent the proceeds to CIA-supported Contras fighting the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua, in defiance of Congress. Throughout the Iraq war the U.S. has worked with Iran-backed political figures and Shi’a militias such as SCIRI to terrorize Sunni Iraqis and promote civil war. Without being able to pose as the great adversary of the Great Satan, it is doubtful that the Ahminejad regime could endure. This years-long waltz over nuclear power in Iran is greatly to his benefit.

The collaboration of the US and Islamic fundamentalism is too extensive to detail here. I have written two articles on the subject which you may find interesting:
"Inventing the Enemy"
"Useful Enemies"

Both are on the newdemocracyworld.org website.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

The WTC towers weren't the first steel-reinforced buildings demolished by fire. See Delpht and other examples.

What are you referring to?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

Even though I restarted this sub-thread, I won't be participating in some or all of it. Some discussions just never seem to work out well.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

If you were aware that the Cold War was a sucker's game, then it must be your ferocious, repulsive anti-Arab, anti-Islam racism that prevents your seeing that you're being played for a sucker again.

It was said during the Cold War that, "If the Communist threat did not exist, the US would have to invent it." The threat of nuclear war and the notion of a Communist (or capitalist) under every bed provided American and Soviet ruling elites excellent means to frighten and control their own citizens, justify enormous arms expenditures, and legitimize power projection abroad in the name of saving the world from Communism (or capitalism).

Do we really have to choose between supporting the Shah of Iran and the present theocratic thugs? It’s a ludicrous choice and it ignores one of the most important geopolitical facts: that the US ruling class has been nurturing political Islam since it first allied in 1947 with the House of Saud. If the US did not actually invent modern political Islam, for over half a century it has promoted it, funded it, trained it, armed it, and furnished it with a political rationale for its existence.

US ruling circles and reactionary forces acting in the name of Islam are in a co-dependent relationship: they need each other and work together covertly, even while they publicly attack each other in word and deed. Ruling elites in Muslim nations like Iran use political Islam and the threat from the US to control their own people with an iron fist concealed in a glove of religious fervor, while the US frightens and controls its own citizens with the supposed terror Islamic threat.

There has been a strong collaborative relationship between the theocratic rulers of Iran and US rulers which continues to this day. The 1979 Iranian revolution might have established a secular, anti-capitalist revolutionary democracy and swept the Middle East. Instead TIME=s 1979 Man of the Year, Ayatollah Khomeini, and the mullahs successfully channeled the mass popular movement into a right-wing theocracy, using nationalism and religion to crush the revolution and consolidate the class nature of Iranian society.

In November, 1979 Iranians took over the US Embassy in Tehran, taking 50 Americans hostage. Focusing on the Great Satan allowed the Ayatollah Khomeini to put up a show of radicalism to satisfy his followers while he liquidated tens of thousands of worker and student revolutionaries in the spring and summer of 1980. In October, 1980 emissaries of the Republican Party met secretly with the Ayatollah's regime and persuaded it not to release the hostages until the election was over, thus guaranteeing the defeat of Jimmy Carter. From 1983 through 1988 the Reagan Administration, in collaboration with Israel, sold arms to the Khomeini regime in Iran and sent the proceeds to CIA-supported Contras fighting the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua, in defiance of Congress. Throughout the Iraq war the U.S. has worked with Iran-backed political figures and Shi’a militias such as SCIRI to terrorize Sunni Iraqis and promote civil war. Without being able to pose as the great adversary of the Great Satan, it is doubtful that the Ahminejad regime could endure. This years-long waltz over nuclear power in Iran is greatly to his benefit.

The collaboration of the US and Islamic fundamentalism is too extensive to detail here. I have written two articles on the subject which you may find interesting:
"Inventing the Enemy"
"Useful Enemies"

Both are on the newdemocracyworld.org website.

Oh yay. Just what we need, another one of you people (from Boston no less! Did you go to Harvard too?) telling us some crazy leftist nonsense.

As a dedicated reactionary, I will tell you this: democracy is finished, done, over. You delude yourself into thinking it makes the world safe for you and your kind. Sure, your control of the media and academic institutions has done wonders at indoctrinating the people with your lies. Your control of the banking sector has also done wonders to enslave the people enough they don't feel like resisting. But as always, you over played your hand.

The game is up. Even barely literate people in the ghetto know they've been had.