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People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

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  • People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

    NOAM CHOMSKY: The Tea Party movement itself is, maybe 15% or 20% of the electorate. It’s relatively affluent, white, nativist, you know, it has rather traditional nativist streaks to it. But what is much more important, I think, is the outrage. Over half the population says they more or less supported it, or support its message. What people are thinking is extremely interesting. I mean, overwhelmingly polls reveal that people are extremely bitter, angry, hostile, opposed to everything.

    The primary cause undoubtedly is the economic disaster. It’s not just the financial catastrophe, it’s an economic disaster. I mean, in the manufacturing industry, for example, unemployment levels are at the level of the Great Depression. And unlike the Great Depression, those jobs are not coming back. U.S. owners and managers have long ago made the decision that they can make more profit with complicated financial deals than by production. So finance – this goes back to the 1970s, mainly Reagan escalated it, and onward- Clinton, too. The economy has been financialized.

    Financial institutions have grown enormously in their share of corporate profits. It may be something like a third, or something like that today. At the same time, correspondingly, production has been exported. So you buy some electronic device from China. China is an assembly plant for a Northeast Asian production center. The parts and components come from the more advanced countries – and from the United States, and the technology . So yes, that’s a cheap place to assemble things and sell them back here. Rather similar in Mexico, now Vietnam, and so on. That is the way to make profits.

    It destroys the society here, but that’s not the concern of the ownership class and the managerial class. Their concern is profit. That is what drives the economy. The rest of it is a fallout. People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t seem to understand it. So the same people who are a majority, who say that Wall Street is to blame for the current crisis, are voting Republican. Both parties are deep in the pockets of Wall Street, but the Republicans much more so than the Democrats.

    The same is true on issue after issue. The antagonism to everyone is extremely high – actually antagonism – the population doesn’t like Democrats, but they hate Republicans even more. They’re against big business. They’re against government. They’re against Congress. They’re against science –
    http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/...eveal_profound
    Last edited by Munger; November 30, 2010, 06:10 PM. Reason: link broken

  • #2
    Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

    need to fix your link mung

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    • #3
      Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

      I don't give one damn what the Arab street thinks.

      For the information of "the Arab street" and for that bunch of neo-nazis now running Iran: 9/11 was caused by Islamic-radicals. And for the information of "the Arab street", the Holocaust did happen. We have the list of names of those who died in the Holocaust, including some of my grandparents' immediate family. The list is compiled at Yad Vashem in Isreal.

      Until the so-called, "Arab street" gets as far away as it can get from anti-semitism and Holocaust-denialism, its revisionist history of WWII, its religious intolerance, its racism, its sexism, its hatred of the West, its hatred of science, and its hatred of critical-thinking, its worship of terrorists, its love-affair with the Lockarbie-bomber; I shall have no use whatsoever for how "the Arab street" polls.

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      • #4
        Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

        Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
        9/11 was caused by Islamic-radicals.
        Some of us, including some of us who are neither Arab nor (at the moment anyway) on the street, do not agree.
        Most folks are good; a few aren't.

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        • #5
          Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

          Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
          Some of us, including some of us who are neither Arab nor (at the moment anyway) on the street, do not agree.
          Who flew the airplanes into the Twin Towers at the World Trade Centre, New York City?
          Let me read what you have to write about this story.

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          • #6
            Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

            Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
            Who flew the airplanes into the Twin Towers at the World Trade Centre, New York City?
            I recommend to your consideration earlier iTulip threads on this subject, such as Goodbye, Mr Roberts. If I thought it would be a welcome and useful discussion, I'd pursue it further here. I think neither.
            Most folks are good; a few aren't.

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            • #7
              Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

              What is the hard evidence that 9/11 was not caused by Islamic militants?

              You have every right to be skeptical of anything to-day. But you have to have solid evidence to re-write the history of 9/11. What is the solid evidence that you have to offer here? And conspiracy theories are not solid evidence.

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              • #8
                Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                FWIW I just don't trust Chomsky. There's a cant to his analysis that somehow seems to rise above my ignorance of the minutiae of the Palestinian / Israeli conflict. Case in point is his complaint that diplomatic cables (wikileaks) do not exhibit sufficient allegiance to democratic principles. That is just a very silly expectation. They're diplomats. Diplomacy is not served by having staff with no opinions. He seems to exist in a world where no-one is willing to challenge him on the obvious.

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                • #9
                  Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                  Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                  What is the hard evidence that 9/11 was not caused by Islamic militants?

                  You have every right to be skeptical of anything to-day. But you have to have solid evidence to re-write the history of 9/11. What is the solid evidence that you have to offer here? And conspiracy theories are not solid evidence.
                  I will not comment further on this here.
                  Most folks are good; a few aren't.

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                  • #10
                    Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                    Originally posted by oddlots View Post
                    FWIW I just don't trust Chomsky.
                    For the last several decades, I have not trusted him either, though that is mostly because I came from the Rush Limbaugh school of George Bush idolatry, which heaps scorn on (what they might call) ivory tower leftist elitists such as Chomsky. Earlier, in the 1960's, I quite respected Chomsky's linguistic work, though I can't claim to have been a serious student of it; my studies at the time were in some minimally related areas of mathematics and philosophy.

                    Of late I am once again finding Chomsky worthy of serious consideration.

                    I just now listened to Democracy Now's Amy Goodwin interview with Noam Chomsky that was linked in the original post of this thread. What Chomsky says about Israel, Palestine and the US sounds accurate to me. I would suggest not getting too "hung up" on the meaning of the word Democratic. What I think he is saying is that Israel and US policy is arrogantly at odds with the rest of the world, both other national views and private citizens views. I think he's right on this matter.

                    I rather agree with you in not expecting better of our diplomats. If I had the opportunity to fire said diplomats, they would be out of work, before sunrise (it's midnight, where I am now.)
                    Most folks are good; a few aren't.

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                    • #11
                      Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                      Earlier, in the 1960's, I quite respected Chomsky's linguistic work
                      A couple of articles on this, if anyone is interested:His work was a major advance in its field.
                      Most folks are good; a few aren't.

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                      • #12
                        Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                        Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
                        What I think he is saying is that Israel and US policy is arrogantly at odds with the rest of the world, both other national views and private citizens views. I think he's right on this matter.
                        Maybe the "rest of the world" is wrong and we're right?
                        Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

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                        • #13
                          Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                          Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                          Maybe the "rest of the world" is wrong and we're right?
                          The many UN resolutions against Israel suggest otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cerning_Israel

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                          • #14
                            Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                            Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                            Maybe the "rest of the world" is wrong and we're right?
                            The rest of the world lets water run-off when it rains; the rest of the world deems floods, droughts, locusts, and disease to be "divine judgement". That is why polling "the rest of the world" to decide policy is absurd.

                            Or here is another way to look at this: Did Stalin take a poll of "the rest of the world" to decide what to do about Hitler and his nazis in Europe?

                            Sad to say, if one took a poll of the kids at UC Berkeley to-day, or if one polled the street near here in Victoria, BC, at the Univ. of Victoria, there might be wide-spread support for the Islamic-radicals running Iran..... And should such polls decide foreign-policy issues?

                            Sad to say, if one took a poll at the Univ. of Victoria, there still might be overwhelming support for the thesis that global warming is real and is caused by mankind's carbon emissions.
                            Last edited by Starving Steve; December 01, 2010, 01:14 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: People are extremely bitter about it, but don’t understand it*

                              Originally posted by Starving Steve View Post
                              The rest of the world lets water run-off when it rains; the rest of the world deems floods, droughts, locusts, and disease to be "divine judgement". That is why polling "the rest of the world" to decide policy is absurd.
                              Steve, how many other countries in the world outside the north american continent have you visited?

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