When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

[Starving Steve]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

The more than faint misogynist undertone doesn't help the author with his case. Maybe instead of blaming feminist professors and the school system, he should ask himself why there are so many single parent households with kids being raised without a male role model. Seems a lot of men have decided to dispense with the responsibility of raising the children they helped create. But then being responsible for the consequences of your own actions doesn't fit that "rugged individualism" thing, does it...

I haven't found many feminists who have ever taken responsibility for anything--- unless they might benefit materially by doing so. They dwell in the paradigm of being victims and soliciting sympathy, and entitlements from government.

Watch BBC World Television, and you are presented with a feminized view of the world. For example: Hamas and Hesbollah in Gaza or Arminijad in Iran being presented as victims of the West or victims of Isreali defence policy. Big oil and drillers are presented as racketeers and criminals--- instead of the unsung heros (that they really are) who rose to take the risk of solving the impossible problem of finding affordable oil for the Western World.

[don]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion



Marketing doesn't always work, at least not around here (what's with these f**king green symbols...wouldn't it be better if we couldn't see them.)

[Minion]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

At risk of touching off another religious discussion:

There is a simple reason for this trend. It started in ancient Babylon with Ishtar and her son Nimrod. It is confusion over our true origins.

You believe we happened by chance with no guiding hand of firm authority, or you believe an Author of Perfection put us here. Note that religions with a claim to the God of Abraham keep real men around.

Your opinions may vary. As we say in engineering, the proof is in the results, or as One greater than I would say, the tree is known by the fruit it brings.

[Spartacus]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

summarized in less than one word:

waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!

__________
damn ... ended up in the wrong part of the tree, with no way to move or delete/re-attach

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

Did none of you see that I was posting a link? They are a bit hard to see (hint hint iTulip webmaster ...)

I underline my links to make them more obvious.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

A study of 3,500 British married couples after the birth of their first child found that the more husbands helped, the lower the incidence of divorce.

This risks getting cause and affect backwards. Perhaps the husband not helping is not the primary cause of the divorce, but rather a symptom of deeper problems, the blame for which could lie with one, the other, or both parties.

[Chris]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

No.

One must spend time in the higher education system to fully understand the authors point. Luckily, much of what is done in the name of the humanities never gets a hearing outside of post-structuralist and feminist literature classes. And many of the students of those classes end up working in ....government.

(cough)

....Keep moving...nothing to see here..

[bpr]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

I think what is happening is that there is a orchestrated conspiracy to create child like, easily manipulated people. John Taylor Gatto has written extensively about this:
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/

Our schools and our movies and TV shows reward such child like behavior as acting out, physical violence, sulking and temper tantrums. Adults in their 40s are encouraged to play video games and watch cartoons. Responsibility and emotional control are discouraged. This applies to both men and women.

A strong man, a "gentle-man" is not afraid of a strong woman. Weak ineffectual men are afraid of strong women. I live and work in Pelosi's district, and although I wouldn't vote for her, I am proud to have such a strong leader representing me.

I tend toward this "infantilization" of "our" culture argument: it is not machismo vs. the feminine, but responsibility vs. self-gratification, or production vs. consumption.

The "feminization" of men is a side effect: a male-driven backlash against a larger cultural trend toward ineffectual machismo, which is caused by the infantilization of all people.

Three-month-old Kim Sa-rang died of malnutrition in September while her parents were engaged in 12-hour sessions of Prius Online. In the 3-D fantasy game, players nurture an online girl who gains magical powers as she grows. Kim's mother is a former factory worker while her father is a taxi and truck driver.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...ex.html?hpt=T2



I put our in quotes earlier because this isn't a wholly American phenomenon, but a Western one.

[llanlad2]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

This is sort of what Gibbson in fact said. His thesis was that Rome collapsed due to moral decay.

This is the only set of books from the 1700s that is still widely read and many people respect this point of view.

-G

Moral decay was put forward as an element, but blaming women for it was not his overriding explanation, so no it was not what he said.

[*T*]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

The culture war begun in the sixties has, in large part, been won by the left. Nowhere is this clearer than in the feminization of men.

Tell that to Che, for example.
Perhaps the author is confusing the slight "all pinkos are gay" with some kind of truth. I couldn't get past this ridiculous opening premise.

[Munger]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

(Anyone have the "what defines a man" speech from The Big Lebowski? I couldn't find it with a few minutes of searching online.)

LEBOWSKI
It's funny. I can look back on a
life of achievement, on challenges
met, competitors bested, obstacles
overcome. I've accomplished more
than most men, and without the use
of my legs. What. . . What makes a
man, Mr. Lebowski?

DUDE
Dude.

LEBOWSKI
Huh?

DUDE
I don't know, sir.

LEBOWSKI
Is it. . . is it, being prepared to
do the right thing? Whatever the
price? Isn't that what makes a man?

DUDE
Sure. That and a pair of testicles.


LEBOWSKI
You're joking. But perhaps you're
right.


DUDE
Mind if I smoke a jay?

LEBOWSKI
Bunny.


DUDE
'Scuse me?

LEBOWSKI
Bunny Lebowski. . . She is the light
of my life. Are you surprised at my
tears, sir?

DUDE
Fuckin' A!

LEBOWSKI
Strong men also cry. . . Strong men
also cry.

[Starving Steve]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

A question to ask in this discussion: Might there be a link between the marginalization of men to-day, divorce, the unemployment of men, falling wages of men, the complete absence (or dis-interest) of labour unions to help new male workers, the not too subtle policy of central banks to fight inflation by de-flating real wages and by breaking labour unions? In other words, is this one big conspiracy against dear old dad? And my answer is: "Ofcourse!"

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

I couldn't get past this ridiculous opening premise.

The characterization of the opening premise as "ridiculous" is actually a common method of discourse amongst liberals in the modern era. More than anything else, it represents the end of liberalism as such. This idea that liberalism is completely dominant and that the change our culture values or at least reversing liberalism is impossible - that we have reached the end of history as said by Francis Fukuyama - is actually absurd.

The conclusion mistakes the imaginative limits of liberals for the limits of reality. The owl of Minerva flies at dusk. The possibility of comprehensively formulating advanced liberalism and the difficulty of imagining anything beyond are signs that its possibilities are played out. The principles of liberal modernity are too simple and authoritative and their implications too clear to allow for changes even when those principles are obviously self-destructive, as vast social dysfunction, nihilism, and spiritual emptiness exemplify the world over.

In short, I imagine you won't be laughing at the ridiculousness of this culture war for your entire life.

[*T*]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

The characterization of the opening premise as "ridiculous" is actually a common method of discourse amongst liberals in the modern era. More than anything else, it represents the end of liberalism as such. This idea that liberalism is completely dominant and that the change our culture values or at least reversing liberalism is impossible - that we have reached the end of history as said by Francis Fukuyama - is actually absurd.

Apologies for not begin clearer; I wasn't ridiculing the assertion that 'liberalism' is the dominant philosophy. Rather there were other mental gymnastics I couldn't keep up with. Let me break it down:

The culture war begun in the sixties has, in large part, been won by the left.

Well, OK.. I guess it depends on your perspective...

Nowhere is this clearer than in the feminization of men.

So the assertion is
1) that there has been a 'feminisation' of men
2) that this is attributable to the winning of the 'culture wars' by 'the left'

Even accepting the first sentence, I can only describe (2) as an epic non-sequiter. Apparently it's so obvious to the author he feels no need to back it up with reasoning.

Further,

It is no wonder that women now are the majority of college graduates and are increasing their role in every institution from private enterprise to public service

Is this a bad thing? Why is it supposed to make us lesser men? I don't feel any less of a man because I work with women in senior positions and not just clerical staff.

It not only extolled the virtues of knighthood and chivalry, but it also exhorted men to overcome all obstacles on the path to individual greatness.

Have there not been great women military leaders too? Just within my shores, Boudicca of the Iceni for example? Elizabeth I? Even though I disliked almost everything Thatcher did, but I would class her as a leader, and I'm guessing you would too...

any reference to manly virtue, rugged individualism, and decency is stigmatized as "hate speech."

I had to laugh here. Another wild leap. Calling people racist names is "hate speech". Praising decency, virtue or individualism isn't. Give me an example.

No nation has ever demonized manhood to its own reward. A nation that renounces violence, no matter how just the cause, signs its own death certificate -- and for a violent death at that.

Here he equates manhood with violence. Where do I begin? Well, violence is not the same as chivalry. Chivalry was defending the poor and downtrodden against the strong, exploitative and violent, without regard to your own life. Chivalry was forsaking material possessions and devoting your life to the service of God. These were the duties of a knight. I agree chivalry is "manly". But I don't equate chivalry with violence. I don't equate violence with manliness.

[BigBagel]

Re: When Masculine Virtues Go Out of Fashion

I yelled at my son for drinking fruit beer. I'm trying to help the situation.