From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

[metalman]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

how brilliant of forrest to post this to political abyss!

i'll add one to the list...

6. every day the name of every brave man or woman who gives a life or limb in defense of our nation must appear on the front page of every newspaper and web site to remind us of their sacrifice.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

They enemies of "US" is "THEM". I classify "THEM" as those corporate entities that would seek a fascist form of governance to descend upon this country and those that do their bidding. Everyone else, is "US", including those that watch FOX NEWS, at least in my book.

What precisely IS a fascist form of government?

The so-called fascist governments were able to rally relatively large segments of their population to wage war against the combined forces of the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and later the United States - political entities that controlled the vast majority of the world.

Truly, what does our corporate dominated democracy have to do with those nations?

I really am perplexed at all this talk of fascism. Fascist governments rose in direct response to the London-New York international banking powers that wrecked havoc on the world in the post-WWI era. If anything, the rise of fascism should give everyone pause as to how quickly the world can change as a result of corrupt banking practices.

We all talk about how this is the Second Great Depression. If that is so, then we should not discount the very real possibility desperate people will accept yet another Caesar to force rapid "change".

[jtabeb]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

I still don't want them on my side if they are too dumb to realize theyre the ones that ushered them into power...

Well, that's sad then, because by your actions, you are allowing "THEM" to win.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

You can do a google search and find many many many contradicting statements from the pundits and idiots on FoxNews who ..

No, I will not do a google search. I do not watch Fox (nor any TV). I will not attempt the futile task of persuading you to watch Fox.

I will only request that you don't suggest to newcomers that your views represents this sites views. Some here may agree with you, some not. I know for a fact at least one who doesn't agree -- myself.

Thanks, and have a good day.

[ricket]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

They enemies of "US" is "THEM". I classify "THEM" as those corporate entities that would seek a fascist form of governance to descend upon this country and those that do their bidding. Everyone else, is "US", including those that watch FOX NEWS, at least in my book.

I still don't want them on my side if they are too dumb to realize theyre the ones that ushered them into power...

[jtabeb]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Except for the ridiculous lying on the very nature of their own company.

They continuously rail against "the mainstream media" when *THEY* are one of the largest media companies in the world (NewsCorp). They have the largest number of viewers who eat up their "fair and balanced" hate-mongering shows and it's leading Americans to become dumber and dumber about what is really going on.

You can do a google search and find many many many contradicting statements from the pundits and idiots on FoxNews who appear woefully under-educated on even the most basic of realities. Their continued support for personalities and politicians who have the most bizarre beliefs infuriates me to no end.

These statements are not to endorse or condone the other actions of other networks, merely to point out that FoxNews is probably at the top of the list when it comes to fallacies in their content.

They enemies of "US" is "THEM". I classify "THEM" as those corporate entities that would seek a fascist form of governance to descend upon this country and those that do their bidding. Everyone else, is "US", including those that watch FOX NEWS, at least in my book.

[jtabeb]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Useful response, jtabeb. Thanks.

The "ism" labels always leave me a bit hesitant. I fear a little too much theorizing can be used to obfuscate essentials.

.

"I don't believe in 'ism's', I just believe in me"

John Lennon, quoted by Matthew Broderick in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" (1986).

[ricket]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Speak for yourself, ricket, not for this site.

Some of us here consider Fox, of the major TV networks, to be the least objectionable spew.

Except for the ridiculous lying on the very nature of their own company.

They continuously rail against "the mainstream media" when *THEY* are one of the largest media companies in the world (NewsCorp). They have the largest number of viewers who eat up their "fair and balanced" hate-mongering shows and it's leading Americans to become dumber and dumber about what is really going on.

You can do a google search and find many many many contradicting statements from the pundits and idiots on FoxNews who appear woefully under-educated on even the most basic of realities. Their continued support for personalities and politicians who have the most bizarre beliefs infuriates me to no end.

These statements are not to endorse or condone the other actions of other networks, merely to point out that FoxNews is probably at the top of the list when it comes to fallacies in their content.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Your RANT is the perfect example of how a country goes FASCIST.

Fascist target the strawman of Marxism to get the population to go along. Always worked that way.

Fascism, at its heart, is a rejection of egalitarianism. Marxism is a complicated notion, but it is hardly a strawman. It is better identified as progressivism. Whether or not the major political parties aspire to true Marxism is irrelevant - they all hold egalitarian ideals as not merely desirable but inevitable.

In any event, fascism is in and of itself a pejorative term in modern discourse. There are legitimate criticisms of progressive ideals of democracy as the basis of government authority, egalitarianism as statement of fact regarding human nature, and materialism as the primary ethic of governance. Anyone with a critical mind can question the wisdom of the future of mankind being the subject of a popularity contest. It requires little empirical evidence to contradict the notion that humans are inherently equal. The bankrupt cultures of the industrial economies is proof enough that material prosperity does little to bring happiness to the people.

Then, there is the pernicious doctrine of modern banking itself that was very much the target of Fascist ideologues. Put simply, modern banking and compound interest is, in the words of Ezra Pound, against nature. It cannot and will not survive.

All I will say is these questions led to the greatest war in the history of mankind. Oversimplification at this stage is foolish.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Your RANT is the perfect example of how a country goes FASCIST.

Fascist target the strawman of Marxism to get the population to go along. Always worked that way.

I can categorically state that there is NO RISK of our country descending into a Marxist Autocracy.
( I think FRED would agree, but not on so certain terms)
THERE IS AN EXTREME RISK of a Descent into FASCISM however.

Useful response, jtabeb. Thanks.

The "ism" labels always leave me a bit hesitant. I fear a little too much theorizing can be used to obfuscate essentials.

I tend to look at this a little different (as usual.) It seems to me that we are bombarded by all sorts of scares, pleadings, urgings, distractions, ... that have one common theme. That being to yield up, by ignorance, lassitude, compulsion, fervor, patriotism, or any other means imaginable, some of our personal power and freedom to some other party (not an individual we know personally)

Some of this is good and essential. Humans, ants, bees, sardines, sparrows, wolves and many other beings gather together for their common welfare.

But this essential and deeply engrained propensity is easily corrupted. Each individual is responsible for knowing to whose benefit (cui bono) his common efforts acrue.

Yes, we should help the poor, the infirmed, the weak. Yes, we should oppose fascist oligarchies and marxist autocracies. Yes, we should aid the victims of oppression, genocide, starvation and mass epidemics in far away lands. Yes, we should help the victims of fire, crime, poverty, and violence in our own communities, and oppose the crooks, thieves, arsonists, rapists and vandals.

But always be aware who is the agent claiming our time and money for such good purposes. Do not let any one agent become too powerful (e.g. the U.S. federal government.) Beware of agents who misrepresent their intentions, usually more for their own benefit than for the purpose they claim or our benefit.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Your RANT is the perfect example of how a country goes FASCIST.

Fascist target the strawman of Marxism to get the population to go along. Always worked that way.

I can categorically state that there is NO RISK of our country descending into a Marxist Autocracy.
( I think FRED would agree, but not on so certain terms)
THERE IS AN EXTREME RISK of a Descent into FASCISM however.

Useful response, jtabeb. Thanks.

The "ism" labels always leave me a bit hesitant. I fear a little too much theorizing can be used to obfuscate essentials.

I tend to look at this a little different (as usual.) It seems to me that we are bombarded by all sorts of scares, pleadings, urgings, distractions, ... that have one common theme. That being to yield up, by ignorance, lassitude, compulsion, fervor, patriotism, or any other means imaginable, some of our personal power and freedom to some other party (not an individual we know personally)

Some of this is good and essential. Humans, ants, bees, sardines, sparrows, wolves and many other beings gather together for their common welfare.

But this essential and deeply engrained propensity is easily corrupted. Each individual is responsible for knowing to whose benefit (cui bono) his common efforts acrue.

Yes, we should help the poor, the infirmed, the weak. Yes, we should oppose fascist oligarchies and marxist autocracies. Yes, we should aid the victims of oppression, genocide, starvation and mass epidemics in far away lands. Yes, we should help the victims of fire, crime, poverty, and violence in our own communities, and oppose the crooks, thieves, arsonists, rapists and vandals.

But always be aware who is the agent claiming our time and money for such good purposes. Do not let anyone agent become too powerful (e.g. the U.S. federal government.) Beware of agents who misrepresent their intentions, usually more for their own benefit than for the purpose they claim or our benefit.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

I think you need to spend a little more time on this site before spewing Fox News talking points.

Speak for yourself, ricket, not for this site.

Some of us here consider Fox, of the major TV networks, to be the least objectionable spew.

[Slimprofits]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

It is NOT the Poor who are robbing this country blind and getting taxpayer bailouts valued at trillions of dollars....

Yes it is, Marxist. Just how many Che t-shirts do you own? ACORN controls JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. ACORN decides who gets the bailouts and who doesn't. Bawney Fwank!!!! Long Form birth certificate!!!! Hitler spoke to the children too!!!!

The Mainstream Media reports nothing…bought and paid for by the ‘very left’ and their corporate Tarp bailed out friends.

Exactly my patriotic friend. Fox News and Clear Channel Radio are the only grass-roots, from the ground up media entities that are owned and staffed by REAL Americans.

Would you call the UK, Germany, France, Marxist?

You wouldn't? Pass the Freedom Fries.





(exit, stage left...)

[jtabeb]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

Your RANT is the perfect example of how a country goes FASCIST.

Fascist target the strawman of Marxism to get the population to go along. Always worked that way.

I can categorically state that there is NO RISK of our country descending into a Marxist Autocracy.
( I think FRED would agree, but not on so certain terms)
THERE IS AN EXTREME RISK of a Descent into FASCISM however. And that is the real threat.I include FRED's comments from the select side on my post about "FASCISM is just a Supreme Court Decision Away" so that YOU can judge for yourself, where the threat lies.

(Yes, he was responding to a thread that I posted, so I'm putting the disclaimer in front)


FRED:
"Interesting that Moyers' observation of the power of the Insurance arm of the FIRE Economy media to frame the health care debate is quickly sidetracked even here among the well informed iTulip readership by an argument about right versus left positions on the topic.



While we're arguing about that, as the member who posted this thread points out, the foundations of a corporate fascist state are being built. Once it is completed, will it be right wing fascist or left wing fascist?

Moyers indeed has a left wing background. For the sake of balance, we'd like to see a member of the right who expresses a similar view.

Does a right wing commentator exist, who operates on Moyers' level, with a multi-decade long career and a national audience, who takes a similar anti-Oligarchy position? Curiously, no. Perhaps we have our answer to the question above.

A more constructive endeavor than arguing left versus right on the Labor Day holiday is to come up with a list of 10 Facts You Can't Say in the Corporate Media that Prove it is Controlled. I'll start.

1. To maintain staffing levels, the U.S. military depends on an army of indebted and unemployed citizens.
2. Most laws, but especially drug laws, are selectively enforced by wealth class.
3. Reporters and editors are afraid to report certain facts for fear of retribution--they may be fired and their reputations damaged to the point that they are unemployable in their industry. Several we have talked to quit the field because they could no longer function in an environment where they lived one story away from ending their journalism career.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Fact #1 is interesting because, historically, after a system evolves that selects military personnel by wealth group, the military can be quickly politicized and manipulated as a voting block to meet political ends.

Fact #2 is interesting because, historically, after a system of selective law enforcement is in place, typically selective prosecution based on political affiliation comes next.

Fact #3 is interesting because fear is the life blood of a fascist system. More and more private decisions are based not on opportunity to better one's condition but out of fear of losing one's current place in society. Anyone who can instill fear has power, and anyone who has power can instill fear.

Others? "

By all means, don't take my word for it. But if you dig, you will find that the threat YOU FEAR is the exact OPPOSITE of the one we face.

God Bless and Take care.

V/R

JT

[World Traveler]

Re: From a (semi) Free Country to a Marxist Autocracy?

I can understand concerns about the constitution being applied properly and about the future of America. Most thinking Americans do have those concerns today.

But the 99% of Americans who are not financial oligarchs or banking elite need to move beyond the Left/Right, Marxisim/Socialism, Democrat/Republican, and Welfare Queen ideological debates. It is NOT the Poor who are robbing this country blind and getting taxpayer bailouts valued at trillions of dollars, it is the finanacial oligarchs and banking elite who are. The oligarchs are asset-stripping America, not the Food Stamp Program recipients.

The oligarchs pull the most important strings in both political parties, and use Left/Right debates and social issue (like abortion, scholl prayer, etc.) debates to divide and conquor Americans.

They don't care which political party or ideology is running Washinton, as long as they control things behind the scenes and they keep getting richer. They use the media to keep us distracted, examples: Fox News (Rupert Murdoch), CNBC (GE).

We the 99% have much more in common than we have differences. We're slowly getting poorer and we have a political process that is not responsive to our needs. Working together and refusing to believe rhe propaganda that often passes for news, we can reign in that 1%, and refuse to be divided/conquored.