Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

[blazespinnaker]

Interesting idea inspired by the following article from 1929

http://www.worklessparty.org/timework/ford.htm

It seems to me the unemployment problem could be solved with reduced work weeks.

Unfortunately, we still have a military and a medical system we have to support, so working less only works if we can produce more. Ie, the deficits matter.

Solution? Alt energy (nuclear,solar,wind,etc) to power robots that do all the work.

This way we can produce more and import way less. The deficits are brought down and we can afford to pay our doctors and soldiers.

The japanese are already doing this, btw.

Anyways, next problem? I'm hoping to solve a couple more before breakfast.

[c1ue]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

It seems to me the unemployment problem could be solved with reduced work weeks.

Keep it up - you're turning more French every day

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek

The 35-hour working week is highly controversial in France. Generally speaking, left wing parties and labour unions support it, while conservative parties and the MEDEF employers' union oppose it. Critics of the 35-hour workweek have argued that it has failed to serve its purpose because an increase in recruitment has not occurred. According to them, firms, being stubborn against hiring new workers, have instead simply increased per-hour production quotas. According to right-wing parties and economic commentators, French firms avoid hiring new workers in general because French work force regulations make it difficult to lay off workers during a poor economic period (see New Employment Contract and First Employment Contract laws passed in 2005 and 2006 by Villepin's administration).

Oh wait, they've stopped doing that.

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...826227,00.html

France's ruling conservatives are celebrating the mothballing of what they've long derided as the most destructive legacy of Socialist rule: the 35-hour workweek. Late Wednesday, a government text gutting the left's decade-old labor innovation was voted into law, provoking cheers from rightist politicians that France Inc. could now better fulfill one of President Nicolas Sarkozy's key campaign slogans: "work more to earn more."

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Well, how the french did it was pretty crazy. i'm not saying we should outlaw the 40 hour work week, but we should start enforcing overtime at 35 hours, provide tax breaks for companies to hire more part time work.

but only after we solve the deficits.

[c1ue]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Well, how the french did it was pretty crazy. i'm not saying we should outlaw the 40 hour work week, but we should start enforcing overtime at 35 hours, provide tax breaks for companies to hire more part time work.

You didn't read the followup Time article.

What you are saying above is exactly what they are doing now. Vive le (non) difference!

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

well, it's an improvement then.

I'm not sure the french have the productivity capacity to sustain a 35 hour work week however.

[c1ue]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

I'm not sure the french have the productivity capacity to sustain a 35 hour work week however.

Now you are segueing into stereotypical francophobia.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

not at all. It's the whole point of this post. By properly utilizing automation and alternative energy any nation can build up that productive capacity .. which is what the US needs to do. We then reduce the work week so everyone can have a job.

[Rajiv]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

not at all. It's the whole point of this post. By properly utilizing automation and alternative energy any nation can build up that productive capacity .. which is what the US needs to do. We then reduce the work week so everyone can have a job.

That will not work until the problem of inflation, and the resulting transfer of wealth from productive (producing goods and services that are actually useful for living) wage earners to rentiers and FIRE denizens is taken care off. See my reply to your comment in the marginal utility of money thread. The only way this can occur is if non wage income is taxed heavily, and tax burdens are taken off wage income. The decreasing real family income with increasing work loads is a legacy of the redefined tax structure starting in the early 80s

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Maybe .. I think we could probably just raise the minimum wage.

[Rajiv]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Maybe .. I think we could probably just raise the minimum wage.

If we were to get back to the same real wage as 1974 minimum wage as per the old CPI methodology (used by shadowstats) without hedonic adjustments etc., (new BLS methodology)

-- the minimum wage that was $2 per hour in 1974, today would have to be $30 per hour.

Since people worked for 2000 hours per year -- $4000 per year minimum wage -- or corrected to $60,000 minimum wage annually.

Where will that money come from, other than reducing the income and wealth disparity???

The only other way is to increase the money supply (which means increasing the debt) -- but that will not work, as that in itself is inflationary and increases the wealth disparity under the current tax structure. So what is your way???

[c1ue]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

not at all. It's the whole point of this post. By properly utilizing automation and alternative energy any nation can build up that productive capacity .. which is what the US needs to do. We then reduce the work week so everyone can have a job.

Uh ok.

So a shorter work week is fine if its your idea, but that it failed in France means its because the French are incompetent?

And for that matter, France is the single most 'Alt-E' energy nation in the world today.

Yet it is a far cry from the utopia you are proposing - especially considering the 'socialized health care'.

Is it because they're French, or that they don't have enough robots?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Maybe .. I think we could probably just raise the minimum wage.

When low wages are illegal, only illegals will have low wages .

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

If we were to get back to the same real wage as 1974 minimum wage as per the old CPI methodology (used by shadowstats) without hedonic adjustments etc., (new BLS methodology)

-- the minimum wage that was $2 per hour in 1974, today would have to be $30 per hour.

Since people worked for 2000 hours per year -- $4000 per year minimum wage -- or corrected to $60,000 minimum wage annually.

Where will that money come from, other than reducing the income and wealth disparity???

The only other way is to increase the money supply (which means increasing the debt) -- but that will not work, as that in itself is inflationary and increases the wealth disparity under the current tax structure. So what is your way???

Yes, but the real value of necessities have come down. In 1974, the basic things .. food/shelter/clothing .. you needed a $30 per hour job in order to pay for that stuff.

This is why the real value of minimum wages have come down. Because the real value of those things have come down.

Yes increasing the money supplly is inflationary .. but productivity enhancements are deflationary.

Really, it's very straightforward. Our deficits are making us beholden to china/oil exporting companies. We need to bring those deficits down. How do we do that without lowering our standard of living and living like people in China? We automate everything and get the robots to do the work.

Unfortunately, once robots do all the work, what do we do? We work less hours..

The japanese are well aware of this and are doing it as we speak. Everything is being automated.

[Rajiv]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

When low wages are illegal, only illegals will have low wages .

Do we have a problem with non standard smileys - A "smile" - typically : ) now is "happy" -- "Frown" typically : ( is now "Big grin"

What gives?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Alt energy, Robots, and reduced work weeks

Do we have a problem with non standard smileys - A "smile" - typically : ) now is "happy" -- "Frown" typically : ( is now "Big grin"

What gives?

Yeah -- the selection of smileys is a little limited. I should take FRED up on his offer a few weeks ago to add more if we suggested specific ones.

But I haven't gotten bothered enough by it to make the effort.