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China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

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  • #16
    Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

    Originally posted by raja View Post
    Comment by Krugman yesterday:
    China’s Water Pistol

    Dean Baker gets upset by this line in today’s very useful Keith Bradsher article:
    China is the biggest buyer of Treasury bonds at a time when the United States has record budget deficits and needs China to keep buying those bonds to finance American debt.
    As I said, this was a very good article about China; the debt line was probably inserted because it’s considered obligatory to say this in any article about US-China relations. As it happens, however, while it’s part of what everyone knows, it’s also completely false.
    Why don’t people get this? Part of the answer is that it’s really hard for non-economists — and many economists, too! — to wrap their minds around the Alice-through-the-looking-glass nature of economics when you’re in a liquidity trap. Even if they’ve heard of the paradox of thrift, they don’t get the extent to which we’re living in a world where more savings — including savings supplied to your economy from outside — are a bad thing.
    Also, and I think harder to forgive, is the way many commentators seem oblivious to how we got here. Yes, we have large budget deficits — but those deficits have arisen mainly as the flip side of a collapse in private spending and borrowing. Here’s what net borrowing by the US private and public sectors looks like in the Fed’s flow of funds report:
    Federal Reserve Board of Governors
    The US private sector has gone from being a huge net borrower to being a net lender; meanwhile, government borrowing has surged, but not enough to offset the private plunge. As a nation, our dependence on foreign loans is way down; the surging deficit is, in effect, being domestically financed.
    The bottom line in all this is that we don’t need the Chinese to keep interest rates down. If they decide to pull back, what they’re basically doing is selling dollars and buying other currencies — and that’s actually an expansionary policy for the United States, just as selling shekels and buying other currencies was an expansionary policy for Israel (it doesn’t matter who does it!).
    As Dean nicely puts it, “China has an unloaded water pistol pointed at our heads.” Actually, it’s even better: China can, if it chooses, throw some cold water on us — but it’s a hot day, and we would actually enjoy it.


    At what is Krugman looking ? Is it households, which the article below claims is just a catch all category ?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sprott-calls-fed-ponzi-scheme-half-trillion-treasury-purchasers-are-unaccounted

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

      Originally posted by Yaowarat View Post
      Looks like they were busy buying elsewhere:

      CNOOC gets LatAm foothold with $3.1 bln Argentina deal



      http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE62E0MT20100315


      http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthr...21558#poststop

      http://www.financeasia.com/News/1696...t-venture.aspx
      16 March 2010

      J.P. Morgan is advising Cnooc on the Bridas investment, and yesterday it emerged that private equity firm Hopu Investment Management, founded and run by former Goldman Sachs China partner Fang Fenglei, is advising BEH. This is the first instance of Hopu providing M&A advice and suggests the firm may try to model itself on Blackstone, which has an advisory arm as well as an investment arm.
      More Brokers for hot potato placement coming.
      http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6f398d92-2...44feabdc0.html

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

        Originally posted by LargoWinch View Post
        touchring, I disagree with you there.

        In 2000 the USDX was what 120+ and the US' U3 was less than 5% correct?

        Today the USDX is not even 80 and U3 is just under 10%, so what gives?

        My point is that a weak currency is not synonymous with high employment; that is a fallacy.

        I think we can't use the US example for China. China's economy is heavily dependent on exports, and not just to the US, but also to the rest of the world. Furthermore, China exports price elastic goods.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

          Originally posted by c1ue View Post
          China's need to create jobs is not synonymous with buying US dollars.

          The reality is that China has not been buying US dollars since May 2009.

          Secondly only a floating currency has to worry. It has yet to be demonstrated that China cannot fiat declare the value of the RMB.

          Lastly, China doesn't need to sell Treasuries. It only needs to not buy.

          I have noted numerous times that there are good strategic reasons why China would want to keep its existing store of dollars. These same reasons do not dictate that China must continue buying more.

          They had been printing to devalue the yuan, isn't that so? Hence the huge real estate bubble?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

            Originally posted by touchring
            They had been printing to devalue the yuan, isn't that so? Hence the huge real estate bubble?
            Once again, what does printing to devalue the yuan have to do with buying US Treasuries?

            One would think printing the yuan itself would be sufficient to lower the relative value of the currency.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

              pls delete, duplicate
              Last edited by touchring; March 17, 2010, 01:07 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                Originally posted by lsa420 View Post
                We rarely talk about currencies on iTulip. As it relates to China - it seems that the consensus is that the Yuan will rise relative to the $US as soon as they depeg.

                I can think of essentially no one out there who thinks the Yuan might fall when China depegs. Perhaps the Chinese are holding off on revaluation for a reason??

                As "contrarians" shouldn't this be a warning sign for us? 100% consensus on something as complex as the value of the RMB in the future - especially after a potential stock/property bubble burst - seems a little premature to me at best.

                I think this is an issue that we should be looking at seriously - and quickly. I am.:eek:

                I'm not even ruling out a devaluation of the RMB at some point i time if China let free market forces determine the RMB.

                I think that there's a lot of stuff that we don't know about China, and having come from a country that once had a severely controlled media myself, I know there are lots of hidden stuff and problems that governments try to hide.

                Otherwise why is there a need to control the Internet so tightly, i.e. Google search engine.

                Anyone who bought a very cheap made in China electric fan will know. It looks like a fan, it has very good chrome like finishing, it works at the showroom, but if you take it home, it works for only 2 months. The gas and effort to bring it back to the service shop for a check will cost more than the fan itself, so you just dump it.
                Last edited by touchring; March 17, 2010, 01:07 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                  Originally posted by touchring View Post
                  jk pointed out the real reason, all this talk about protecting jobs and exports is a farce, China is holding back the revaluation because it wants to diversify out of its dollar holdings. Devaluing the dollar will mean devaluing their own foreign reserves.
                  US, give me a little debt relief. China, give me a little resource ownership. Back and forth they go until agreed on the next move and publicly acceptable.

                  Another daily billion dollar placement article,,,yawn.
                  http://www.chinamining.org/Investmen...503d34780.html

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                    Originally posted by jk View Post
                    a. china's competitive advantage has been cheap labor.
                    b. material inputs and the cost of transport [energy] are all internationally priced, and a weaker dollar will make them more expensive when priced in dollars.
                    c. commodities will be cheaper for chinese domestic consumption, not for re-export.
                    d. those are reasons i - for one- automatically think that once the renminbi appreciates, chinese exports will suffer.
                    e. but for the same reasons i don't think the chinese will allow this to happen.
                    f. sufficient cuts in american consumption will make the issue moot for the chinese.
                    g. but in the meantime they'd like to buy things of value with the dollars they hold.
                    A couple of related items:
                    China Accuses U.S. of Politicizing Yuan as Trade Surplus Sinks

                    March 21 (Bloomberg) -- China warned the U.S. against imposing sanctions over the value of the yuan, arguing that the exchange rate issue has been politicized and that a rise in protectionism threatens the global economic recovery.

                    Pressure on China to strengthen the yuan does “no good to anyone,” China’s Commerce Minister Chen Deming said at the China Development Forum in Beijing today. China’s trade balance likely slipped into the red in March, although the yuan was stable, showing that exchange rate changes have a “limited” impact on trade, Chen said.

                    Tensions over China’s currency are mounting, with President Barack Obama facing increased calls from American lawmakers to step up pressure on China for keeping its exchange rate artificially low. Chen today warned that sanctions against China that amounted to protectionism would hinder growth and raise the risk of a “double dip recession.”

                    “No matter how tough both sides sound now, they’ll eventually come back to the negotiation table for a mutually beneficial solution,” as any U.S. sanctions will be detrimental to both, Li Wei, an economist with Standard Chartered in Shanghai, said in a telephone interview.

                    Li said he expects the yuan to rise by 2 percent this year, a pace that won’t harm the economy...

                    ...China “won’t turn a blind eye” if the Treasury Department’s April 15 report labels the Asian nation as a currency manipulator and sanctions follow, Chen said in comments broadcast on China Central Television. The government will “deal with” any escalation of the dispute, he said.

                    China’s leaders have repeatedly said that their yuan policy isn’t the cause of the U.S. trade gap.

                    “We oppose countries pointing fingers at each other and even forcing a country to appreciate its currency,” Premier Wen Jiabao said on March 14.

                    The government has kept the yuan at 6.83 per dollar since mid-2008 to shield exporters from the global recession and a contraction in world trade. It allowed the currency to appreciate 21 percent in the three years before that...




                    March 18, 2010
                    Fear The New Krugman
                    By Brady Willett


                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                      Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                      March 18, 2010
                      Fear The New Krugman
                      By Brady Willett


                      So really, it is not about "China manipulating Yuan", it is about "US wants the free hand to manipulate $US" without consequences:


                      "....Embellishment aside, while focusing policy based upon the premise that the U.S. financial markets and U.S. dollar are too important to fail can, arguably, be beneficial to the U.S., this may only be the case if the policies adopted do not directly endanger the U.S.’s ability to borrow money at attractive rates of interest longer-term. In other words, before undertaking a risky protectionist experiment the U.S. would be well served to try and get its financial house in order (the Krugman of old would probably concur). The U.S. would also be well served to remember that there is ample reason to fear China so long as the U.S. is in pursuit of novel schemes to intentionally ‘manipulate’ the dollar lower…"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                        Originally posted by jk View Post
                        a. china's competitive advantage has been cheap labor.
                        b. material inputs and the cost of transport [energy] are all internationally priced, and a weaker dollar will make them more expensive when priced in dollars.
                        c. commodities will be cheaper for chinese domestic consumption, not for re-export.
                        d. those are reasons i - for one- automatically think that once the renminbi appreciates, chinese exports will suffer.
                        e. but for the same reasons i don't think the chinese will allow this to happen.
                        f. sufficient cuts in american consumption will make the issue moot for the chinese.
                        g. but in the meantime they'd like to buy things of value with the dollars they hold.

                        jk pointed out the real reason, all this talk about protecting jobs and exports is a farce, China is holding back the revaluation because it wants to diversify out of its dollar holdings. Devaluing the dollar will mean devaluing their own foreign reserves.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                          Originally posted by bill View Post
                          US, give me a little debt relief. China, give me a little resource ownership. Back and forth they go until agreed on the next move and publicly acceptable.

                          Another daily billion dollar placement article,,,yawn.
                          http://www.chinamining.org/Investmen...503d34780.html


                          there's also another political reason - the CCP has created a huge asset bubble and it cannot be seen as the one that bursts it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                            Originally posted by bill View Post
                            US, give me a little debt relief. China, give me a little resource ownership. Back and forth they go until agreed on the next move and publicly acceptable.

                            Another daily billion dollar placement article,,,yawn.
                            http://www.chinamining.org/Investmen...503d34780.html
                            http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...pcWvielE&pos=1
                            April 12 (Bloomberg) -- China Petroleum & Chemical Corp., Asia’s biggest refiner, plans to buy ConocoPhillips’s stake in oil-sands producer Syncrude Canada Ltd., a person familiar with the matter said.
                            Sinopec may pay about $4 billion for the stake, according to the person, who asked not to be identified because the talks are private. An announcement may come as soon as today, the person said.
                            John Roper, a spokesman for Houston-based ConocoPhillips, declined to immediately comment. A spokesman for Sinopec wasn’t immediately available to comment after regular business hours.
                            ConocoPhillips, which holds a stake of about 9 percent in unlisted Syncrude, said in October it planned to sell $10 billion of assets over two years to cut debt.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners


                              Am I the only one that finds it absurd that an American company is selling, to the Chinese, its "dirty oil" in a secure location that is on the same continent, but doesn't hesitate to send its military half-way around the world to "protect" sources of...um..."clean oil"...:p

                              I'm starting a rumour that the Chinese plan to build a high speed rail link from Syncrude to the west coast so they can move the barrels to tidewater at record speed...
                              Sinopec Said to Plan Purchase of Syncrude Stake

                              April 12 (Bloomberg) -- China Petroleum & Chemical Corp., Asia’s biggest refiner, plans to buy ConocoPhillips’s stake in oil-sands producer Syncrude Canada Ltd. in a deal that may be worth about $4 billion, a person familiar with the matter said...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: China trims Treasury holdings yet again. Only $17B sold in January 2010 to foreigners

                                Originally posted by GRG55 View Post
                                Am I the only one that finds it absurd that an American company is selling, to the Chinese, its "dirty oil" in a secure location that is on the same continent, but doesn't hesitate to send its military half-way around the world to "protect" sources of...um..."clean oil"...:p

                                I'm starting a rumour that the Chinese plan to build a high speed rail link from Syncrude to the west coast so they can move the barrels to tidewater at record speed...

                                This is the American misconception that money printing is free and without 'costs'.

                                Comment

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