Scary Thought

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Scary Thought

On the other hand, if you have reason to leave it on all the time anyway, then have at it.

That's a key point, ggirod.

If you have a computer running anyway, then running SETI or Folding At Home rather than an idle loop costs little electricity and essentially no wear and tear on the computer.

Turning on or waking up computers to run them does have it's modest costs.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Scary Thought

Given the vastness of space and over the course of billions of years, probability demands that some intelligent life has developed elsewhere.

The problem for us ever contacting other civilizations is twofold:

-Immense distances preclude contact.

- Over the eons as civilizations may have developed and then died out, the chance of two space going civilizations ever overlapping the same timeframe is minute.

In effect, we are alone.

And if we are alone in this part of the universe, for many light-years out in all directions from Earth, why are we spending money in NASA to try to find civilizations that don't exist? Science seems to indicate that we are very alone; all of our assumptions about life being common in the universe have been proved wrong..... Score one-point for the creationists.

If water planets, like Earth, are rare in the universe, that means that we have to get things right on this planet because there would be no second-chance for mankind elsewhere. Terra-forming a lifeless planet like Mars would be all but impossible.

The issue of explosive population-growth has to be addressed by mankind now.

[Rajiv]

Re: Scary Thought

If water planets, like Earth, are rare in the universe

Steve -- that I believe is not quite true.

How water forms where Earth-like planets are born

In a study that helps to explain the origins of water on Earth, University of Michigan astronomers have found that water vapor can form spontaneously in habitable zones of solar systems, and that it develops into a protective layer that shields other water and organic molecules from harmful stellar radiation.

Organic molecules such as sugars and amino acids are the precursors to life.

The findings are published in the Dec. 18 edition of Science.

"When you're close to a star, the radiation is destructive to most molecules. But we were able to prove that water could form quickly enough to shield itself and other molecules from that radiation," said Ted Bergin, an associate professor in the Department of Astronomy.

Bergin and Thomas Bethell, a postdoctoral astronomy researcher, conducted a computational analysis to come to this conclusion.

They determined that the series of chemical reactions necessary for water vapor to be created are only activated at temperatures higher than 300 degrees Kelvin (which is about 80 degrees Fahrenheit.) These temperatures are only present relatively close to a star—in the areas where terrestrial planets such as Earth would form. Out farther, at Jupiter's distance, the gasses are too cold for water vapor to form.

Once the water vapor starts to form, the scientists found, it forms fast enough to build a shell similar to Earth's ozone layer, which acts like an umbrella to protect the life below it from solar radiation. Not only does this astronomical "ozone layer" of water vapor protect other water molecules behind it, it would also shelter organic molecules.

"There's a rich organic chemistry that precedes the birth of stars," Bergin said. "It's simpler, but similar to the chemistry of life. The behavior of water can allow that chemistry to proceed. Without the protection water vapor provides, those organic molecules would be destroyed."

Most Earthlike Planet Yet Found May Have Liquid Oceans

It probably wouldn't feel exactly like home. But the planet known as Gliese 581d has a lot more in common with Earth than astronomers first thought.

New measurements of the planet's orbit place it firmly in a region where conditions would be right for liquid water, and thus life as we know it, astronomer Michel Mayor, from Geneva University in Switzerland, announced today.

"It lies in the [life-supporting] habitable zone, and it could have an ocean at its surface," Mayor said during the European Week of Astronomy and Space Science conference, being held this week at the University of Hertfordshire in the U.K.

First discovered in 2007, Gliese 581d was originally calculated to be too far away from its host star—and therefore too cold—to support an ocean.

But Mayor and colleagues now show that the extrasolar planet, or exoplanet, orbits its host in 66.8 days, putting it just inside the cool star's habitable zone.

At the same time, Mayor and colleagues announced that they have spotted a fourth planet orbiting in the Gliese 581 star system—and it's the lightest exoplanet found so far.

The planet, dubbed Gliese 581e, is only about twice the mass of Earth and is the closest planet to the star, completing its orbit in about 3.15 days.

"It brings down the mass [of the lightest known exoplanet] by more than a factor of two. The previous smallest was around five Earth masses," said Andrew Collier Cameron, an astronomer at the University of Saint Andrews in the U.K. who was not involved in the find.

Also

The issue of explosive population-growth has to be addressed by mankind now.

I agree with the sentiment -- but without a massive dieoff (unacceptable to me,) the population pyramids are against that happening over a relatively short period of time (that over which our current resource depletion will occur.)

Resource depletion will put a tremendous pressure on the current population levels. And of course human beings being human beings, they do not go easily -- this could result in catastrophes that could endanger all life on this planet.

[jtabeb]

Re: Scary Thought

Sorry jtabeb, but here at iTulip, some don't recognize professional background, nor the consensus of professional opinion no matter how large, nor do we recognize facts no matter how many.

I deny your background, the consensus of similar backgrounds, and your facts. You are simply wrong.;)

You'd be right to question my opinion if I had a PHD, but a B.S. is the factually correct stage of educational development. The Politically Complicit and Mouthpiece stages come at the Masters and Doctoral levels respectively.

[Diarmuid]

Re: Scary Thought

Sorry jtabeb, but here at iTulip, some don't recognize professional background, nor the consensus of professional opinion no matter how large, nor do we recognize facts no matter how many.

I deny your background, the consensus of similar backgrounds, and your facts. You are simply wrong.;)

Never waste a good opportunity to appeal to authority Toast.

[GRG55]

Re: Scary Thought

If you want to worry about politicians catering to religious fundamentalists, worry about them catering to muslims, not christians. The press already is self-censoring itself with regard to muslim "sensibilities" (eg the Mohammed cartoon thing) when we are only 1% muslim here in the US. The Dutch government is trying to throw Geert Wilders in prison for pointing out the obvious truths about Islam. Muslims are dramatically overrepresented in terms of terrorist murders; in fact if you think over the last 40 years of high-profile atrocities, they were overwhelming committed by muslims in the name of Islam. Quit picking on the christians, who only believe what, afterall, almost all of our ancestors devoutly believed. Christians aren't commanded by their belief to conquer, even kill, unbelievers. Muslims are. Whether life exists on another planet is a trivial matter compared to that.

Really?

I don't think any group, religious or otherwise, is completely immune.

These are from someone who, apparently, sees himself as a devout Christian...so much that at one point he claimed to answer to a higher authority [instead of the American public]. Let's just leave the women and children body count, and Don Rumsfeld's comments about "the humanity" of laser guided bombs, aside for now...:rolleyes:

My administration has a job to do and we're going to do it. We will rid the world of the evil-doers.

This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.

Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated.

I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace.

Every Iraqi atrocity has confirmed the justice and the urgency of our cause. Against this enemy we will accept no outcome except complete victory.

See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction.

No President has ever done more for human rights than I have.

I wasn't happy when we found out there wasn't weapons [of mass destruction in Iraq]

A political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief.

I traveled to Baghdad to personally show our nation's commitment to a free Iraq, because it is vital for the Iraqi people to know with certainty that America will not abandon them after we have come this far.

If there’s any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it’s flawed logic. It’s just — I simply can’t accept that. It’s unacceptable to think that there’s any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective.

Sometimes we must fight terror with tyranny

[dcarrigg]

Re: Scary Thought

.... Because your CS professors sometimes accept grant money or free equipment from manufacturers of computer hardware, and the hardware manufacturers want you to run SETI At Home so your computer burns up quickly, and you have to go out and buy a replacement!

Thanks Toast -- I needed that.

iTulip is a collecting point for folks who don't accept economic orthodoxy, so it's hardly surprising that some of us don't accept orthodoxy in other areas. Of course, some types of systems are simpler than other types, and some permit cleaner experimentation than others...

You're not getting it, Ash. It's because the feds run it. If they'd just privatize SETI, we'd all be sipping Mai Tai's with ET in Waikiki by now!