Is Obama our Gorbachev?

[*T*]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

I'm not being politically correct, it's a point of fact. Mussolini, Hitler & Franco all were strongly associated with the church in their country; perhaps our perspectives are different.

[Raz]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

And THAT's the kind of nonsense that put you on my ignore list. Dude are you trolling or are you serious?

Insert the word "Western" right before "civilization" in Serge's post and you will find me in total agreement with him.
If you choose to ignore the history of the Western World for the past 1700 years then add me to your ignore list as well.

[Finster]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

Snort....name a time in the last 150 years when you could *not* say that about the US.

Excellent choice of time frames. It was right around 1860 when things started to go wrong...

[jpatter666]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

It does get tossed around pretty casually. Probably 1 in 1000 people would recognize it when they saw it ... or recognize that the US is already, in many ways, firmly in its grip.

Snort....name a time in the last 150 years when you could *not* say that about the US.

[Finster]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

somewhere recently i read a quote of upton sinclair, that when fascism comes to america it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

It's wrapped in whatever it is that says that all will be ruled from Washington, DC. You in Duluth, Minnesota, Butte Montana, Toledo Ohio, or in Rural USA, you will do things as we say you will. We will tell you who you may hire, who you may work for, what you may pay or be paid, what you may eat, what kind of vehicle you may drive, what your schools will teach, and what you may display in your town square. And you will send us lots of money for the privilege.

[Finster]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

... Regardless, fascism is at this point an epithet and has no meaning.

It does get tossed around pretty casually. Probably 1 in 1000 people would recognize it when they saw it ... or recognize that the US is already, in many ways, firmly in its grip.

[grapejelly]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

...Bushama?

[don]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

what exactly has Obama accomplished with his historic charter as well as his party controlling Congress?

By any stretch of imagination, it has not been impressive thus far.

The largest transfer of wealth in our history.

Not impressive?

Obama magic

[c1ue]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

I don't think Gorby is the right analogy. Yes, there are some parallels such as the new generation trying to right a failing model but the BIG difference is that Gorbachev was a hapless sad sack sort of like Carter who let himself get overwhelmed by events and when faced with a more forceful opponent (Reagan), let the system collapse.

This is incorrect. Gorbachev was visionary in seeing that the Soviet system would have to change. His mistake was trusting both that the West would meet his efforts halfway and that the West knew anything better - economically or otherwise.

Obama is no Gorbachev or Carter. He may be going down the wrong path but he is in no way letting events control his destiny. He is highly adept politically and more than willing to ignore dissent and crack heads when necessary to get his way.

Really? I agree Obama isn't as hapless as Carter, but then again what exactly has Obama accomplished with his historic charter as well as his party controlling Congress?

By any stretch of imagination, it has not been impressive thus far.

Perhaps a better historical analogy would be a Napoleon. Very driven with a stunning amount of short term successes but headed to disaster due to hubris.

Napoleon wasn't backed by the FIRE oligarchs.

Napoleon wasn't a 'compromise'r.

Napoleon was a brilliant general.

Sorry, I don't see any resemblence whatsoever.

[don]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

Gorbachev?

No.

Raymond Shaw

Everyone loved Raymond....

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

And THAT's the kind of nonsense that put you on my ignore list. Dude are you trolling or are you serious?

The sentence I wrote should be rewritten to say "modern civilization".

Anyway, I'm terribly sorry to offend your politically correct notions. You can go back to practicing usury and living off whatever fat is left in that shell of the British Empire.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

... but headed to disaster due to hubris.

hubris, or psychopathology?

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

I don't think Gorby is the right analogy. Yes, there are some parallels such as the new generation trying to right a failing model but the BIG difference is that Gorbachev was a hapless sad sack sort of like Carter who let himself get overwhelmed by events and when faced with a more forceful opponent (Reagan), let the system collapse.

Obama is no Gorbachev or Carter. He may be going down the wrong path but he is in no way letting events control his destiny. He is highly adept politically and more than willing to ignore dissent and crack heads when necessary to get his way.

Perhaps a better historical analogy would be a Napoleon. Very driven with a stunning amount of short term successes but headed to disaster due to hubris.

[*T*]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

2) everything that defines civilization originated in countries that a) were highly nationalistic and b) Christian and 3) the leadership of the most oppressive regimes have at all times been primarily associated with atheists and/or non-Christian monotheists.

And THAT's the kind of nonsense that put you on my ignore list. Dude are you trolling or are you serious?

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Is Obama our Gorbachev?

somewhere recently i read a quote of upton sinclair, that when fascism comes to america it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.

That's the kind of nonsense that the elites have been using to destroy the traditional culture of Western Civilization now for sometime. Mostly, it's a variation of the "black legend" and is equally fallacious as 1) the conviction rate even at the height of the inquisition, or even with the Star Chamber, never has approached what is in the US today (well over 99%) 2) everything that defines civilization originated in countries that a) were highly nationalistic and b) Christian and 3) the leadership of the most oppressive regimes have at all times been primarily associated with atheists and/or non-Christian monotheists.

Regardless, fascism is at this point an epithet and has no meaning.