Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

[jk]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

The state does nothing to help in regards to mental health disorders. So many suffer from mental health disorders and their family members ask for help from authorities but they do nothing unless they threaten to harm themselvs or someone else. It is deplorable because so many don't exhibit either of those.

what criteria do you propose instead for involuntary commitment? who is to decide whether to put you in a hospital against your will, and on what grounds?

the current system is set up to protect the rights of individuals to be free. it is comparable to the presumption of innocence - allowing possible criminals to remain free in order to reduce the possibility of convicting someone who is innocent. [which we still do often enough].

[LorenS]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

It sure looks like they have good suspects now, but if they don't take either one alive it will be hard to know motive or mental state.

So far it seems to meet the "profile" of terrorism.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

what criteria do you propose instead for involuntary commitment? who is to decide whether to put you in a hospital against your will, and on what grounds?

the current system is set up to protect the rights of individuals to be free. it is comparable to the presumption of innocence - allowing possible criminals to remain free in order to reduce the possibility of convicting someone who is innocent. [which we still do often enough].

I think those rules are in the state rulebook so they do not have to deal with mental health disorders. The authorities and doctors etc can see and tell for sure that someone has a mental health disorder and needs help but refuse to help based on some arbitrary rule that "they have not tried to harm themselves or someone else" it is ridiculous.

I was told point blank by the doctor and social worker that my mother needed help and exhibited all the signs of either bipolar or some multiple personality disorder but the doctor said he could do nothing about it because she had not harmed anyone.

The doctor refused to admit her for 3 days because he couldn't legally as he told me. My mother refused to admit herself because she believed there was nothing wrong with her. (this was at a time when she was having what ended up being a year long episode)

I had to take drastic action and try to have her forcefully committed by the state (which took the form of me signing papers, delivering documents to the courthouse and then the state police coming to take her to be evaluated).

Now do you think I wished to do any of those things?

3 hours later she walked out of the police station (they never brought me in to speak with the psychiatrist/ state social workers etc) and had the police officer drive her home.

They did nothing and said she was okay, could not committ her because she never tried to kill herself or anyone else.

She barely survived that year of her life and still to this day has no help. She weighs 86 pounds and everyone in the town I grew up knows for a fact she has mental issues.

My own sisters have refused to speak to her ever since. They live 1 mile and 4 miles away from her.

Now I understand perhaps there are some cases where peoples "rights" need to be protected but when everyone from doctors to social workers etc are saying she needs mental help and the state refuses to help that tells you something.

She can't even get social security disablity as she refuses to see a psychiatrist and her own medical doctor refuses to send anything to SSDI that states she has a mental health disorder because he can't get her officially evaluated for him to sign off on. Even though he knows something is wrong with her.

But then again I see these young people (perfectly able to work) around here that are 20 years old and have social security benefits etc just for having children yet my mother cannot get any help?

All the burden falls on me as I am the only one with enough understanding and patience to deal with the situation in perpetuity.

[LorenS]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

Now I understand perhaps there are some cases where peoples "rights" need to be protected but when everyone from doctors to social workers etc are saying she needs mental help and the state refuses to help that tells you something.

I'm sorry about your mom. On the other hand during my parents' divorce feelings were running high and both of them were convinced the other one was having "issues". This kind of thing needs to be handled very carefully.

I think the biggest lie of them all is that if we just give "someone" the right rules and the right power "everything will be alright".

Boston is a poster child for the "correct" gun laws - it's supposed to be a gun free nirvana. Yet, turn on the news. There are cops all over the place with high capacity magazines, assault weapons, tanks, machine guns - and most telling of all - they still have not caught him.

One more question:
If Obama has one of the Boston families on Air Force One what will he be campaigning for this time?

[flintlock]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

what criteria do you propose instead for involuntary commitment? who is to decide whether to put you in a hospital against your will, and on what grounds?

the current system is set up to protect the rights of individuals to be free. it is comparable to the presumption of innocence - allowing possible criminals to remain free in order to reduce the possibility of convicting someone who is innocent. [which we still do often enough].

I agree with you but the criteria today for committing someone probably has as much to do with the cost and who is going to pay as it does with personal freedom. The population has boomed but I can't say the same about the number of mental institutions. At some point the safety of the public has to be given some weight as well. It's not that hard to identify threats like the Batman killer. Locking up People like him is a far cry from committing some eccentric aunt who hoards cats. The situation today is a Hot Potato. Nobody wants to deal with it, especially the cost. If we can fund some of the stupid crap we fund these days we should be able to cough up the dough for keeping violently insane people away from our kids. Forget banning guns, or cops in schools. Treat mental health like you would any other threat to public safety.

[flintlock]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

If Obama has one of the Boston families on Air Force One what will he be campaigning for this time?

Watch for new restrictions on black powder, smokeless, and anything else that can be turned into a bomb. Calling for bans on almost anything has become the new way for politicians to get their faces on TV and show their constituents they are "doing something by God!" All you have to do is watch the headlines to predict the next ban. Shame, they used to use things like adding new jobs or building new roads to get attention.

[don]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

they used to use things like adding new jobs or building new roads to get attention

There are, broadly speaking, two ways to rule.

Things are (always) getting better, or

Fear.

We experienced the first for a couple of decades of Pax Americana.

Not it's Fears turn.

(might I add Fear is cheaper, in our Age of FIRE . . .)

[jk]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

I think those rules are in the state rulebook so they do not have to deal with mental health disorders. The authorities and doctors etc can see and tell for sure that someone has a mental health disorder and needs help but refuse to help based on some arbitrary rule that "they have not tried to harm themselves or someone else" it is ridiculous.

I was told point blank by the doctor and social worker that my mother needed help and exhibited all the signs of either bipolar or some multiple personality disorder but the doctor said he could do nothing about it because she had not harmed anyone.

The doctor refused to admit her for 3 days because he couldn't legally as he told me. My mother refused to admit herself because she believed there was nothing wrong with her. (this was at a time when she was having what ended up being a year long episode)

I had to take drastic action and try to have her forcefully committed by the state (which took the form of me signing papers, delivering documents to the courthouse and then the state police coming to take her to be evaluated).

Now do you think I wished to do any of those things?

3 hours later she walked out of the police station (they never brought me in to speak with the psychiatrist/ state social workers etc) and had the police officer drive her home.

They did nothing and said she was okay, could not committ her because she never tried to kill herself or anyone else.

She barely survived that year of her life and still to this day has no help. She weighs 86 pounds and everyone in the town I grew up knows for a fact she has mental issues.

My own sisters have refused to speak to her ever since. They live 1 mile and 4 miles away from her.

Now I understand perhaps there are some cases where peoples "rights" need to be protected but when everyone from doctors to social workers etc are saying she needs mental help and the state refuses to help that tells you something.

She can't even get social security disablity as she refuses to see a psychiatrist and her own medical doctor refuses to send anything to SSDI that states she has a mental health disorder because he can't get her officially evaluated for him to sign off on. Even though he knows something is wrong with her.

But then again I see these young people (perfectly able to work) around here that are 20 years old and have social security benefits etc just for having children yet my mother cannot get any help?

All the burden falls on me as I am the only one with enough understanding and patience to deal with the situation in perpetuity.

in the state in which i live, it is possible for family members to seek civil commitment via a probate court with easier standards than those for involuntary commitment by an examining physician. if a doctor signs papers to commit someone who does not meet the proper criteria, that doctor may be sued for improper imprisonment.

[flintlock]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

I have a female friend who has a family history of schizophrenia that seems to run in the males. Both brothers have it. One in particular is considered dangerous and had been confined to an institution for decades. Imagine my surprise when I heard her recently mention to my wife they were having a hard time getting him committed again. I had no idea he was out. But nobody wants him. Seems he was deemed okay to unleash on society recently. I doubt that decision had anything to do with a miraculous cure but rather with budget constraints. I know its expensive, but then so is dealing with the aftermath of some of these incidents.

Perhaps some sort of mental health board, similar to a parole board, with immunity from lawsuits would be appropriate. At least with violent patients.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

I have a female friend who has a family history of schizophrenia that seems to run in the males. Both brothers have it. One in particular is considered dangerous and had been confined to an institution for decades. Imagine my surprise when I heard her recently mention to my wife they were having a hard time getting him committed again. I had no idea he was out. But nobody wants him. Seems he was deemed okay to unleash on society recently. I doubt that decision had anything to do with a miraculous cure but rather with budget constraints. I know its expensive, but then so is dealing with the aftermath of some of these incidents.

Perhaps some sort of mental health board, similar to a parole board, with immunity from lawsuits would be appropriate. At least with violent patients.

Well, she is much better now and calm. She went through a very bad episode as I said for a year. The only reason I wanted to have her committed was to get her on medication to level out her moods then bring her home. My intention was never to hand her over to that state.

It is a sad state of affairs in the American mental health field.

[LorenS]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

Bloomberg is already exploiting this.

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloomb...ave-to-change/

[shiny!]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

When I first heard about pressure cookers being used to make the bombs, I wrote a post saying that soon we will have to show ID and submit to background checks and registration in order to buy pressure cookers. But I thought such a remark was too callous and cynical in the wake of such a tragedy, so I didn't post it.

Now: Williams-Sonoma pulls pressure cookers from their shelves

[astonas]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

When I first heard about pressure cookers being used to make the bombs, I wrote a post saying that soon we will have to show ID and submit to background checks and registration in order to buy pressure cookers. But I thought such a remark was too callous and cynical in the wake of such a tragedy, so I didn't post it.

Now: Williams-Sonoma pulls pressure cookers from their shelves

Sad indeed.

But what saddened me more is what I saw when I scrolled down to the comments section. I know that this site is the exception when it comes to civility, but if you stay here too much, you forget just how bad the dialogue gets in other settings!

People are just going nuts, to the point of violence, as they are gradually being forced to confront the reality that they are not immune to the negative opinion of people all over the world simply because they live in America.

The age when information, including fomenting of hatred, can be stopped at our border is gone for good. You would think that people posting on the Internet, of all places, would be capable of understanding that. (And more aware that their own comments can be read the world over.)

Can't say it enough: I'm very glad to have this little island of sanity.

[EJ]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

Sad indeed.

But what saddened me more is what I saw when I scrolled down to the comments section. I know that this site is the exception when it comes to civility, but if you stay here too much, you forget just how bad the dialogue gets in other settings!

People are just going nuts, to the point of violence, as they are gradually being forced to confront the reality that they are not immune to the negative opinion of people all over the world simply because they live in America.

The age when information, including fomenting of hatred, can be stopped at our border is gone for good. You would think that people posting on the Internet, of all places, would be capable of understanding that. (And more aware that their own comments can be read the world over.)

Can't say it enough: I'm very glad to have this little island of sanity.

Just returned from my first visit to downtown Boston since the attack. A block from there I sat at a cafe on Newbury street for a drink with a good friend in town from London.

On this first warm, sunny spring afternoon in late April as the bushes bud and apple trees flower, and mothers bump drooling over-educated babies in high tech strollers along uneven sidewalks, and runners pant and bikers weave defiantly through traffic, and grey haired Beacon Hill ladies drag tiny dogs on glass speckled leashes, and bums beg hopefully for beer money, and bad Boston drivers jockey for position at intersections to cut each other off, and fat folded arm cops earn time-and-a-half to guard orange helmeted men standing by half-finished road repairs, and Mass College of Art students waste their parents' hard-earned money as street performance artists, I am glad to report that Boston has already returned to normal.

You can say we are resilient. You can say we have recovered quickly from a piece of very bad of bad luck after recognizing it as such. You can say we collectively have the memory of a fruit fly. Or a combination of all three.

Depends on what you mean by "we."

No matter what anyone says, there is no denying that we are all in some way responsible for the 286 injured and 3 killed in the attack.

We who were not injured or whose family members were not killed or injured can forget, but the injured or killed and their families never can.

The questions are: What can we do for them (not much) and what can we do to reduce the probability that there might be more of them in the future (quite a lot).

[shiny!]

Re: Multiple Explosions Reported at Boston Marathon

The questions are: What can we do for them (not much) and what can we do to reduce the probability that there might be more of them in the future (quite a lot).

Your post does my heart good, EJ. Thank you.

What do you suggest we do to reduce the possibility of more of these events in the future?