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  • #31
    Re: Political Science

    I'm not sure why it matters what Rubio or any politician believes about the age of the earth. How does it affect his ability to address the issues of the day and do his job? When I go to a doctor, all I care about is whether he is properly trained and competent in his specialty. Whether he believes the earth is 6000 years old, or if human life begins at conception for that matter, is really not relevent.

    Do I think the earth is 6000 years old? Fuck no!

    Do I think all life's mysteries can be answered by application of the scientific method? Fuck no, again, because Kurt Godel proved that in his Incompleteness Theorem 80 years ago.

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

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    • #32
      Re: Political Science

      Originally posted by Raz View Post

      Lets do an analogy to your "moon party" last night.

      Give me absolute power of life and death as that possesed by an ancient autocrat and I'll issue a bench warrant for your partygoing friends.
      I'll ask each one of them if your story is true - that you held a party with them on the moon last night.

      If they agree and back up your story I'll then ask them if they were willing to bet their lives on it because I don't accept it or believe it.
      After I have the first one stripped naked and thrown to be eaten by lions I'll bet everything I own that the rest of your friends will rat you out.

      That's what the apostles faced - yet not one of them ever denied the Resurrection, even facing death - sometimes a horrible, torturous death.

      Even if I witnessed the moon party, I would lie and deny it to avoid being eaten by lions -- it's just not that important. So I don't think that's a good way to disprove something.

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      • #33
        Re: Political Science

        Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
        I'm not sure why it matters what Rubio or any politician believes about the age of the earth. How does it affect his ability to address the issues of the day and do his job? When I go to a doctor, all I care about is whether he is properly trained and competent in his specialty. Whether he believes the earth is 6000 years old, or if human life begins at conception for that matter, is really not relevent...
        I'm changing physicians right now because the last one was too devout for me.
        The problem for me is an over-reliance upon magical thinking when hard work in the data might solve a problem.
        I prefer my primary care physician think first and most about the medical sciences.

        Same with my senior politicians - I prefer solutions rooted in provable facts more than those rooted in ancient religious texts.

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        • #34
          Re: Political Science

          Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
          I'm changing physicians right now because the last one was too devout for me.
          The problem for me is an over-reliance upon magical thinking when hard work in the data might solve a problem.
          I prefer my primary care physician think first and most about the medical sciences.

          Same with my senior politicians - I prefer solutions rooted in provable facts more than those rooted in ancient religious texts.
          +1


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          • #35
            Re: Political Science

            Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
            I'm changing physicians right now because the last one was too devout for me.
            The problem for me is an over-reliance upon magical thinking when hard work in the data might solve a problem.
            I prefer my primary care physician think first and most about the medical sciences.

            Same with my senior politicians - I prefer solutions rooted in provable facts more than those rooted in ancient religious texts.
            Too devout? Magical thinking? Oy!

            If you have a chance, read Gifted Hands, the autobiography of neurosurgeon Dr. Benjamin Carson and get back to me about the disconnect between faith and medical science.
            Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

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            • #36
              Re: Political Science

              Originally posted by LazyBoy View Post
              Even if I witnessed the moon party, I would lie and deny it to avoid being eaten by lions -- it's just not that important. So I don't think that's a good way to disprove something.

              The Apostles witnessed a man being put to death. They knew he was dead. Stone, graveyard dead.
              In less than forty-eight hours they were told by the women in their company that this dead man was risen. They didn't believe it.
              Two of them - probably the oldest and the youngest - ran to the burial place and saw that the tomb was empty. The youngest of the two immediately believed.

              Soon after the dead Man suddenly appears in their midst. He has a corporeal body, but it doesn't seem to be limited the way as is theirs. He can move through solid walls
              or just disappear and reappear at will. He allows them to touch Him. They actually watch him eat fish and bread. Even Honey. He speaks to them for a period of forty days, telling them that he counts them as friends, and that He loves them.

              If I witnessed this I'm confident that any fear I once had of dying would be gone. And hopefully combined with a fidelity that would prevent me from disowning this Man - and the truth of what I witnessed. Or at the very least a fear of displeasing Him by lying and betraying Him.

              But that's just me.

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              • #37
                Re: Political Science

                Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                Too devout? Magical thinking? Oy!

                If you have a chance, read Gifted Hands, the autobiography of neurosurgeon Dr. Benjamin Carson and get back to me about the disconnect between faith and medical science.
                It does not surprise me you can find a good example or ten.
                None the less, for technical professional services I do not expect the pairing of deep religious devotion with strong technical excellence.
                Proselytizing will normally send me right out the door to a competitor.

                I will read he book, though, on your recommendation.

                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Political Science

                  Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                  It does not surprise me you can find a good example or ten.
                  None the less, for technical professional services I do not expect the pairing of deep religious devotion with strong technical excellence.
                  Proselytizing will normally send me right out the door to a competitor.

                  I will read he book, though, on your recommendation.



                  Cheers.
                  FWIW, "proselytizing" from any physician would send me out the door also.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Political Science

                    Originally posted by Raz View Post
                    FWIW, "proselytizing" from any physician would send me out the door also.
                    I once went to my old family dentist for a cleaning. He waited until I had a mouth full of sharp metal implements, then he and his assistant started up with "Are you willing to accept Jesus as your Savior?"

                    I left and never went back. Nothing against Jesus, but I was hopping mad.

                    Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Political Science

                      Dawkins teaches hate and intolerance. He likes being a starm and the Pope of Atheism. I think "scientist" is a very generous label for him at this point. He is a religious leader.

                      However, I do agree with many of his less-radical positions. I just do not think telling people they are idiots is productive. (Thanks to those on this board for pointing out my bad attitude) . For me, it is extremely important that we follow the U.S. Constitution. Religion should stay out of all government functions, else you end up with the Taliban. There should absolutely be NO religion in schools, including any discussions creationism, etc. That IS how the founding father's wanted it, and rightly so.

                      We would like the religious people to stay out of our lives. It is pretty simple. We do NOT want you guys pushing your fantasies in the national political and science discussions. I do not want to hear anything about God from any politician. It should be horrifying that anybody would even asks such an irrelevant questions of an elected representative; the idea should never have to come up.

                      Nobody likes to be told (or see) that their religion has no basis at all. It is tough to swallow the reality that one has been brainwashed all of their lives. If more people could see the silliness of religion and dare speak up, then perhaps we will get somewhere. However, it appears that America is going more and more towards a theocracy. While some Christians might like this now, just wait until their version of Christianity is deemed to be a terrorist organization.

                      My rant can be summed up as followed: Feel free to be insanely religious. Just keep it out of my life and bedroom. I do not want the government telling me what to do, nor do I want these types of nutbags running the country.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Political Science

                        We can mock Rubio as ignorant, flat earther, anti-science yadda, yadda, yadda, but heaven help us if we ever question a politician as saying we can borrow 10% of our GDP year in and year out with no effects. That would mock the almighty Keysian god. I think Rubio is a chicken here, but why is this such a big point when there are much more important beliefs on the table.

                        Actually upon reflection ... Keynes believed in paying back the good money when times are good. I suppose I have besmirched his name.
                        Last edited by charliebrown; 12-04-12, 02:23 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Political Science

                          Originally posted by aaron View Post
                          Dawkins teaches hate and intolerance. He likes being a starm and the Pope of Atheism. I think "scientist" is a very generous label for him at this point. He is a religious leader.

                          However, I do agree with many of his less-radical positions. I just do not think telling people they are idiots is productive. (Thanks to those on this board for pointing out my bad attitude) .
                          hang on there, mr a - i thot 'having a bad attitude' was my job....
                          that, and thread-killin.

                          ;)


                          For me, it is extremely important that we follow the U.S. Constitution. Religion should stay out of all government functions, else you end up with the Taliban. There should absolutely be NO religion in schools, including any discussions creationism, etc.
                          PUBLIC schools anyway - the privates can do anything their customers want to pay for.
                          (adding: and vouchers ought to be the rule for those that DONT want what passes for 'education' by the publics)



                          That IS how the founding father's wanted it, and rightly so.


                          We would like the religious people to stay out of our lives. It is pretty simple. We do NOT want you guys pushing your fantasies in the national political and science discussions.

                          and while i wouldnt want to judge anybody based upon their faith, i dont begrudge them for it, either.
                          same as 'gender/preference-identity' - esp the politix of all that - it gets VERY TIRING, to hear/read about it - 24/7, from every media outlet - on a daily/continuous basis.

                          IMHO - this is the root of the problem - the creation, if you will - that resulted in the ascendence of the religious right (beginning in the 60's, with 'free luv' sex/drugs/rocknroll - and dont fergit diversity-worship (at any/all costs) - not that i have anything against all that, mind you - its just that as a political movement, it really does sabotage our society in the longer run - one only has to watch primetime television, or MTV - for the proof)

                          and the lamestream media just pounces on every opportunity to slam/bait those of religious faith, while highlighting the now-fashionable 'lifestyle evolution' being thrust upon us daily by hollywierd.inc

                          and they - hollywierd.inc - blames the internet for the fall-off in record/album sales, TV audience etc?
                          as if lack of talent/creativity - wouldnt have anything to do with it.

                          I do not want to hear anything about God from any politician. It should be horrifying that anybody would even asks such an irrelevant questions of an elected representative; the idea should never have to come up.


                          +1

                          and a minus-1 for rubio to have even bit the bait on that one, in particular - in my mind it shows just how desparate the repubs have become, for 'relevance' (when it used to be easy, just being The Party of NO: you cant give away the treasury to get re-elected - which has all but disappeared, just having been bought off by a different set of special interests - just like The Party of Special Interests, aka The Give It Away, Give It Away, Give It Away now crowd on the other side of the aisle)

                          .......
                          My rant can be summed up as followed: Feel free to be insanely religious. Just keep it out of my life and bedroom. I do not want the government telling me what to do, nor do I want these types of nutbags running the country.
                          +1
                          but we also dont want/need the other nutbag/anti-everything/luddite-brigade calling all the shots either.
                          Last edited by lektrode; 12-03-12, 07:28 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Political Science

                            Originally posted by charliebrown View Post
                            We can mock Rubio as ignorant, flat earther, anti-science yadda, yadda, yadda, but heaven help us if we ever question a politician as saying we can borrow 10% of our GDP year in and year out with no effects. That would mock the almighty Keysian god. I think Rubio is a chicken here,

                            but why is this such a big point when there are much more important beliefs on the table.
                            +100
                            because its simple cb - its called distraction from The REAL issues.
                            and neither religion, gender preferences nor gov-paid birth control has a GD thing to do with it!
                            but this tactic did just put the distractors guy back in office, so theyz winnin... (and The Rest of US are looozin, big time)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Political Science

                              Originally posted by shiny! View Post
                              I once went to my old family dentist for a cleaning. He waited until I had a mouth full of sharp metal implements, then he and his assistant started up with "Are you willing to accept Jesus as your Savior?"

                              I left and never went back. Nothing against Jesus, but I was hopping mad.
                              I'm not talking about physicians proselytizing; who the hell would want to sit through that?! But if you found out that your otherwise excellent dentist believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible (and didn't expound upon his beliefs when you had a mouth full of metal), would you really care?
                              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Political Science

                                Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                                It does not surprise me you can find a good example or ten.
                                None the less, for technical professional services I do not expect the pairing of deep religious devotion with strong technical excellence.
                                Proselytizing will normally send me right out the door to a competitor.

                                I will read he book, though, on your recommendation.

                                Cheers.
                                As I wrote to Shiny, I'm not talking about proselytizing physicians -- who in their right mind would want to be a captive audience in that situtation? -- but a physician who had strong, "traditional" religious beliefs. Why would would that affect your decision (unless, of course the physician was a fundamentalist Muslim and you were an infidel: then all bets are off)?
                                Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

                                Comment

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