What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Very interesting thread. I grew up on the north side of Chicago in the 1950's and 1960's, in a middle class neighborhood. It was about 4 miles from the huge, crime-ridden Cabrini-Green housing projects. My parents never owned a gun, no one we knew had a gun, except my grandfather who had been a cop and kept his gun when he retired.

In that time and place, guns were kind of a non-issue, no one ever talked about them or blowing away criminals. It was assumed that was what the police were for. And even though the projects were relatively close, our neighborhood was safe.

Then I moved to Texas in my mid-20's. WHAT a difference. In my first 3 months there (mid-1970's), someone, trying to be helpful, told me that if aanyone tried to break into my apartment, I should shoot them, but if their body were not yet fully in the apartment, I should drag them over the threshold, because in Texas you could shoot to kill in a home invasion, whether or not the criminal was shooting at you.

Wow, I thought, this place is wild. Someone mentioned the importance of guns in Southern culture. I think they're onto something. And I think, during the 1980's and 1990's, aspects of this culture spread to the rest of the country, via the NRA's lobbying power and federal support and tolerance for gun ownership in all its various forms, including assault weapons.

Like many police departments, I used to support reasonable and rational gun ownership laws and the Brady campaign, but I've kind of given up. Too many guns floating around and the government doesn't have the will power to do anything about it.

Every time there's a mass killing in the news now, I just think to myself, why is this so shocking to people? It's the logical outcome in a country with such permissive gun laws.

Certainly, what you write, match my view. Its part of that semi-retarded southern culture. Its the same people that cant understand that the reason for terrorism is actually the actions of the US making it a self fulfilling prophecy like guys like George Soros is arguing.

[rogermexico]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

The notion that you can just kill someone that enters your property in self defense with a gun, is not right. Just let them empty your house, get your insurance.

I am no legal scholar, but the castle doctrine dates to english common law over a thousand years ago, when your nordic ancestors were probably freezing in mud huts. The right to self defense and defense of property does not derive from government. Although England has since abandoned the castle doctrine in favor of the nanny state and it attendant moral relativism, it may interest you to know that an increasing number of american states have in codified as a matter of law. In Florida and Texas, which are not exactly small states, there is no duty to flee your own home if invaded. You can stand your ground.

[ljaycox]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Yes, that's what I recommend. The last 10 years, in Norway, I think there have been two cases where intruders have been murdered. In both cases the gun nuts, have been charged with full murder. Had they not had a gun, the whole thing had been avoided. The notion that you can just kill someone that enters your property in self defense with a gun, is not right. Just let them empty your house, get your insurance.

WOW, are you nuts? In this state, if someone forcibly enters your home--you can shoot them on the spot, there is no duty to retreat and call your insurance company. I could not imagine it being any different elsewhere, so your perspective seems lunatic to me. I guess that is why there is more than one place to live.

The one who offers me violence to take what i have worked for is attempting to enslave me. I will not be enslaved by someone who wishes to re-write the social contract through force.

[nero3]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

If you enter my house without my permission, I am going to assume you are trying to hurt me. And if that is the case, I am going to shoot to kill. I am not putting my life in the hands of some silly law that protects criminals.

The law in the US is much less protective of the Criminal than here. Here you cannot do manslaughter. That is what you think is your right. At least now how I interpret it. I just think guns are a cowards way, if the person you are trying to protect against don't have a gun. And of they do, then it just increases the chance that lives will get lost, meaning its counterproductive.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

The problems with all these guns is that they statistically just ends up killing friends and family. In my view all negative. Less guns, more safety, so simple. Each individual gun buyer might think he can buck the odds, but the proof is overwhelming, buying a gun, is stupid, I have a suspicion it's part of a southern states culture going way back, sort of intuition" as the stereotype. Let's say you even are so lucky that a thief make an attempt at your house, even then, you will be safer without a gun.

Your statistics are 1) based on biased and false information and 2) are taken from civilized nations where peace and prosperity are the general rule.

The risk of injury from a firearm in the US is far less than driving a car or a variety of other common, every day activities. It is pointless to discuss guns as a danger because the risk is nominal, and the benefits in terms of serving as a deterrent to a tyrannical government are so great.

[rogermexico]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

I consider the criminals life of equal worth.

You have just outdone yourself, Nero.

Do you think the criminals life is as valuable as your wife's or your children?

This type of thinking is beyond stupid, it is the kind of pacifist slave mentality that allows genocide.

[metalman]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

that's nero's hallmark.

vote a new custom title for nero3!

- fact-free
- nordic caveman
- waste of time
- net zero
- other?

[Mn_Mark]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Ah, got to love your countrymen even if they are bigots.

Well, I hate to point it out to you but this muslim has fought in 2 wars to protect your sorry ass (YES ON "OUR" SIDE). I'm in air force you dumass!

And there were some Indians who fought with the cavalry. And some jews helped the nazis. So what? If your position is that islam poses no threat to traditional America then you've been living in a cave for the last 30 years. I speak as someone who has recently had a whole lot of Somali muslims move into his community, at least one of whom has gone back and died in Somalia committing terrorism. Anyplace you get a significant population of muslims, you get a sub-population of islamic fundamentalists who want to make the country muslim.

Yep, I'm a 100% dyed-in-the-wool, anti-muslim bigot. Live with it, "dumass".

[rogermexico]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

This attitude about self defense goes a long way to explain Norway's exceptional performance in WWII. Took what, about a month, for 120,000 German troops to sweep through Norway vs a similar number of Norwegian and Danish forces aided by Britain. See, most Americans, they actually consider their own defense a personal responsibility. Not something for their insurance company( or the Allies) to take care of.

You've been reading way too many left wing propaganda rags. Overwhelmingly, the majority of gun related murders in the US are committed by criminals who are not legally allowed to own guns in the first place. Often they simply kill each other. Unfortunately those crimes are so common that mostly only the "massacres" make the news that reaches Europe.

The US has 4 million mostly law abiding NRA members. ( almost equal to the entire population of Norway). The US is more violent, no doubt. But most here are not interested in living in a more violent country without the means to defend themselves. You hear of these "massacres" in the US. But compare them to the Holocaust, the Armenian massacres, Pogroms, the massacres during Europe's wars of religion, etc. These are massive by comparison, and are something the United States has never had. This kind of mass murder would be almost impossible to pull off against an armed citizenry. Its only when one group can set upon innocent civilians with impunity that you see massacre on this scale. America's founding fathers realized this and so set forth in our constitution the right to bear arms.

Outstanding Post, flintlock

[World Traveler]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

Very interesting thread. I grew up on the north side of Chicago in the 1950's and 1960's, in a middle class neighborhood. It was about 4 miles from the huge, crime-ridden Cabrini-Green housing projects. My parents never owned a gun, no one we knew had a gun, except my grandfather who had been a cop and kept his gun when he retired.

In that time and place, guns were kind of a non-issue, no one ever talked about them or blowing away criminals. It was assumed that was what the police were for. And even though the projects were relatively close, our neighborhood was safe.

Then I moved to Texas in my mid-20's. WHAT a difference. In my first 3 months there (mid-1970's), someone, trying to be helpful, told me that if aanyone tried to break into my apartment, I should shoot them, but if their body were not yet fully in the apartment, I should drag them over the threshold, because in Texas you could shoot to kill in a home invasion, whether or not the criminal was shooting at you.

Wow, I thought, this place is wild. Someone mentioned the importance of guns in Southern culture. I think they're onto something. And I think, during the 1980's and 1990's, aspects of this culture spread to the rest of the country, via the NRA's lobbying power and federal support and tolerance for gun ownership in all its various forms, including assault weapons.

Like many police departments, I used to support reasonable and rational gun ownership laws and the Brady campaign, but I've kind of given up. Too many guns floating around and the government doesn't have the will power to do anything about it.

Every time there's a mass killing in the news now, I just think to myself, why is this so shocking to people? It's the logical outcome in a country with such permissive gun laws.

[rogermexico]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

A new catagory of inflation hedge, eh...:rolleyes:

Ammunition is an excellent inflation hedge. It functions better as commodity money than silver, other than its bulk

1) It lasts almost forever if properly stored.

2) Like bullion coins, it easily recognizable and hard to counterfeit.

2) It is a value added basic materials- based inflation hedge. Lead, brass, powder.

I have several cases of target loads for trapshooting that I bought 15 years ago for $2.75 per box. They now sell for $7.00. Compare that to cash or even stocks!

[Rantly McTirade]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

Ah, got to love your countrymen even if they are bigots.

Well, I hate to point it out to you but this muslim has fought in 2 wars to protect your sorry ass (YES ON "OUR" SIDE). I'm in air force you dumass!

There's been absolutely no war that was fought to protect American citizens' asses since the War of 1812. No matter who that nonsensical phrase comes from it comes from, it is beyond tiresome, though apparantly
from your statement at least you're not a idiot-con sofa samuri.

[rogermexico]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

This is a good illustration of the European view of human beings:

* that we are basically stupid, irresponsible children who are not to be trusted with too much independence or power. We must not be allowed to own guns because they are too dangerous for us...only the government should have guns, because the government is wise and kind and made up of people who have studied the proper courses at the proper universities.

* that we are selfish and greedy and would not give the proper amount to charity if it was left up to us, so our money should be taken away from us and given to the proper causes.

* that we will buy the wrong products or offer the wrong services or invest in the wrong investments, so wise government officials should decide what we are allowed to buy, sell, and invest in.

* that we are too stupid to be able to tell whether an idea is true or not, so we must only be exposed to proper ideas, and the rest will be banned as "hate speech".

Traditional Americans believe that the only proper role of government is to protect our freedom. We are responsible for our lives beyond that, and we like it that way. We don't want to live in a society that's been turned into a gigantic kindergarten where Mommy Government decides for us how to think and live so we don't hurt our itty-bitty selves.

Americans from the Pilgrims to the Founders to the Western settlers to the modern day have kept firearms for defense and we will to the day we die. Take your paternalistic European views and keep them over there. Oh, and see how well they serve you when the rest of Norway, like Oslo, becomes increasingly muslim. I'm sure the muslims will be very happy that you are all unarmed.

I am sure you meant "militant islamist" instead of "muslim" - now apologize to morpheus.

Otherwise, +1 on your excellent post.

I live in a rural county where there are probably twice as many guns as people, many of them deer rifles that are several times more powerful than the demonized, so called "assault weapons". We had a single murder in the county in the 12 years I have lived here. A schizophrenic killed another man with a replica samurai sword on new years eve. No kidding.

No gun accidents or homicides in my "gun crazy" county in at least 12 years.

[gwynedd1]

Re: What's really happening in USA is finally sinking in

There was just a piece on this on 60 Minutes this past weekend. It alleged that people are hoarding bullets because of a fear that the Obama administration will impose a heavy tax on ammunition, as an end-around means of gun control.

Hi Chomsky,

Well then some of you made the right move buying precious metals, especially Platinum and Rhodium. All we need then is ammonia to make the nitric acid. I am sure some of us can start growing the cotton. That should give us a good supply of nitrocellulose. Obama will need to keep his eye out for anyone hoarding cat piss.

Primers will be a bit more challenging but I am sure someone would start looking into making Potassium perchlorate based primers. The lead and brass is easy.

[rogermexico]

Re: gun sales skyrocketing in US

The problems with all these guns is that they statistically just ends up killing friends and family. In my view all negative. Less guns, more safety, so simple. Each individual gun buyer might think he can buck the odds, but the proof is overwhelming, buying a gun, is stupid, I have a suspicion it's part of a southern states culture going way back, sort of intuition" as the stereotype. Let's say you even are so lucky that a thief make an attempt at your house, even then, you will be safer without a gun.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.