Racist threads on iTulip

[aaron]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

I'm pretty sure it had much more to do with him making outlandish claims about EJ's already stated positions on "abiotic" and peak oil...

He would not stop pushing his message. I think his plan is to come back when he is proven right. Regardless, I miss his contribution to the forums. There is less "debate" since his departure. Does he write elsewhere?

[*T*]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

In the interview William Catton said:

"the human organism is still after all just an organism. The human organism is influenced by the chemical, physical, and biological characteristics of it's environment."


I then said:

We are much more than just our minds.


The amount of knowledge that we have regarding why we are who we are, is enormous. The links to studies and research do not interest me much. The ideas of Mr Catton do. Instead of being the results of our genetics, maybe we are the results of forces that we cannot really see, or understand. It pains some people to think of themselves as organisms.

I totally agree we are just primates, shaped by genes, expression of those genes and environment, but I just didn't really get what it had to do with the rules of polite discourse on the forums.

[*T*]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

Great to hear, FRED.

I would add that many objectionable posts are not aimed at individual members specifically, but are more generally objectionable.

For instance, one member likes to use reasoning along the lines of: the US is doing badly, that's because there are too many black people in the US, and black people are less intelligent. Now, that is not aimed at me (nobody here knows my race, or even my gender, except possibly Mega). Similarly, we have heard: bankers caused the crisis, there are many jews in banking, ergo jews are the root of the problem. You can see the chain of non-sequiters.

Untroubled by the laws of logic or the requirement of evidence, that sort of argument doesn't belong here, as well as making a broad class of people uncomfortable.

I have also yearned for a subscribe to user feature.

Peace.

[cjppjc]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

I totally agree we are just primates, shaped by genes, expression of those genes and environment, but I just didn't really get what it had to do with the rules of polite discourse on the forums.

Yes, now that you mention it the rules of polite discourse have little to do with my contribution to this thread. My post was probably the result of reading the harsh words written about the differences in people, and wanting to share what Mr. Catton had said. A final thought. Maybe polite discourse can also be shaped by those influences he mentions.

[dbarberic]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

I’ve seen this type of activity on other forums before. When someone does not like the theme and discussions occurring within a forum, the forum is attacked through the posting of racist and other explicit comments in an effort to undermine the legitimacy of the forum and redirect to focus of the primary forum participants into internal conflict.

I know this may sound conspiratorial, but we are living in a new world of electronic, social media, and propaganda warfare. Maybe EJ’s forecast of the next ten years hits a bit too close for some people.

Background Reading:
Pentagon Wants a Social Media Propaganda Machine
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...ropaganda-ops/

[lektrode]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

I've found when EJ is personally active on the forums, the worthwhile commentary shoots up; EJ has said he was interesting in trying to be more active on the site and indeed I've seen spurts of this, but they never last long. I imagine he's just got too many irons in the fire....

When not, the worthwhile commentary as you state drops; I also look for postings by select individuals such and bart, finster, symbols, grg55, etc.....

Which brings me around to my biggest request from iTulip forums -- subscribe to user.....

+1
and tho obviously its EJ that makes the wheels turn on this site, methinks the 'news' function is what stokes the debate and its freewheeling (to the point of out of 'control') nature is what makes the whole thing work - its kinda like the upwelling of volcanically-heated water columns on the ocean floor, the nutrients that are spewed/added to the mix results in an explosion of lifeforms that otherwise wouldnt happen - altho i agree about an StU function (even tho i probably wouldnt make it onto a lot of members lists) as it would help those so inclined to that option to reduce the sig-to-noise and increase the value of the itulip subscription - and tho i would appreciate the option myself, would still keep 'the news' wide open, subject to fred's monitoring for over the top rude/offensive comments - again, even tho i am prone to getting a bit carried away myself at times - its 'therapeutic' for me and i suspect for the others so inclined to spout off from time to time - and you know who you are, mr steve ;)

personally, i wouldnt want to begin to wonder if what we are seeing is somehow being 'managed' (censored) by the house to simply sell something, even tho thats what EJ is doing to some extent (tho i am a buyer, and its clear theres an altruistic intent/component here = WHY i pay for it); and by allowing the members a free rein, i believe we all benefit, even when some find some of it objectionable from time to time.

[lektrode]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

He would not stop pushing his message. I think his plan is to come back when he is proven right. Regardless, I miss his contribution to the forums. There is less "debate" since his departure. Does he write elsewhere?

see - this is precisely why it would be a bad thing to throttle the freewheeling nature of 'the news' - i had noted this term used in a comment on ZH: "abiotic"
and had wanted to bring it up for discussion on a prev post and couldnt remember where eye had seen it..
(and obviously should've known better that it had already been 'whipped to a bloody pulp' - apparently - around these parts ;)

[aaron]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

+1
and tho obviously its EJ that makes the wheels turn on this site, methinks the 'news' function is what stokes the debate and its freewheeling (to the point of out of 'control') nature is what makes the whole thing work - its kinda like the upwelling of volcanically-heated water columns on the ocean floor, the nutrients that are spewed/added to the mix results in an explosion of lifeforms that otherwise wouldnt happen - altho i agree about an StU function (even tho i probably wouldnt make it onto a lot of members lists) as it would help those so inclined to that option to reduce the sig-to-noise and increase the value of the itulip subscription - and tho i would appreciate the option myself, would still keep 'the news' wide open, subject to fred's monitoring for over the top rude/offensive comments - again, even tho i am prone to getting a bit carried away myself at times - its 'therapeutic' for me and i suspect for the others so inclined to spout off from time to time - and you know who you are, mr steve ;)

personally, i wouldnt want to begin to wonder if what we are seeing is somehow being 'managed' (censored) by the house to simply sell something, even tho thats what EJ is doing to some extent (tho i am a buyer, and its clear theres an altruistic intent/component here = WHY i pay for it); and by allowing the members a free rein, i believe we all benefit, even when some find some of it objectionable from time to time.

iTulip.com is several years behind in technology, including community building . Had I found this site 12 months sooner, I would be as happy a cheer-leader as MetalMan. I felt like yelling WHY DID YOU NOT EFFECTIVELY PROMOTE YOUR MESSAGE!? EJ would have saved my family a LOT of pain. Yes, it is a selfish thought, I know. But, this site screamed "fix me" and "promote me" when I first landed on it.

I have read virtually every post to iTulip in the past 3 years, almost daily, and I have not seen any "censorship". Lukester was asked to tone it down because his message was really drowning out all others. He left instead. At times some threads have been put into rant and rave (which I do not understand why that is the end of the world). There is no "plan" that I can see.

I believe that if EJ wants iTulip to last, then some massive improvements need to be made. It would be easy to do. The first thing is that you have to WANT to improve things. Second thing, ask for suggestions from the community. Then build it. It is really quite simple/easy. And, since EJ has a bit of a technical background, I am not sure why he has not done it yet, or hired somebody to do it.

[Sharky]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

i also agree. not too long ago i pm'd fred about the unfortunate turn taken on a major thread. i would suggest a pm to fred whenever something offensive gets posted. it might be useful, however, if the forum had an automatic function wherein one could click a button to report a possible problem, like amazon's "report abuse" button.

Have you tried the "Report Post" button? It's the black triangle located on the left side of the page, below each post, to the right of "Blog this Post."

[seobook]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

iTulip.com is several years behind in technology, including community building . Had I found this site 12 months sooner, I would be as happy a cheer-leader as MetalMan. I felt like yelling WHY DID YOU NOT EFFECTIVELY PROMOTE YOUR MESSAGE!? EJ would have saved my family a LOT of pain. Yes, it is a selfish thought, I know. But, this site screamed "fix me" and "promote me" when I first landed on it.

I have read virtually every post to iTulip in the past 3 years, almost daily, and I have not seen any "censorship". Lukester was asked to tone it down because his message was really drowning out all others. He left instead. At times some threads have been put into rant and rave (which I do not understand why that is the end of the world). There is no "plan" that I can see.

I believe that if EJ wants iTulip to last, then some massive improvements need to be made. It would be easy to do. The first thing is that you have to WANT to improve things. Second thing, ask for suggestions from the community. Then build it. It is really quite simple/easy. And, since EJ has a bit of a technical background, I am not sure why he has not done it yet, or hired somebody to do it.

I run a paid membership website about online marketing/search/Google/SEO & I would describe our site as being anything other than behind the curve on technology...and our forums are powered by the exact same software powering this site: vBulletin.

Further, more marketing is rarely the answer when people complain about issues with noise. Why? The harder you push something => the lower the barrier to entry => the more noise => the more it pushes the brilliant folks away.

To some degree all communities have ups and downs & lifecycles to them. Marketing can bring a sharp increase in the size of the audience, but large changes in memberships also create a large change in tone. Not necessarily a good thing.

I don't participate here day in / day out (feel I am a total newb with all the macro-economics stuff) but I don't really have any complaints with the site. I would rather see EJ do a deep dive every month / every other month than to have far more frequent but far shallower posts. When EJ goes off the deep end with some of that research some of those posts likely represent 40 or 80 hours of work (in addition to building on his strong foundation from over a decade of research).

On my browser one of my bookmarks is to here

http://www.itulip.com/forums/search.php?search_type=1&searchuser=EJ&starteronly=1&sortby=threadstart

that allows me to quickly search for new threads started by EJ.

One thing we added to our forum to help increase the sense of community is a vBulletin plugin called "thanks" ... which allows you to click a quick thanks on someone's post. We then later hacked up that plugin to make those thanks searchable & browsable (individually by member & in aggregate).

About the only thing I struggle with here is the nested threads...I like having a smooth linear thread so it is easier to see what I missed / what is new, but the thread mode can be edited by users here (I just edited mine after typing this out).

[jpatter666]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

Have you tried the "Report Post" button? It's the black triangle located on the left side of the page, below each post, to the right of "Blog this Post."

So it is -- thanks!

[jpatter666]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

On my browser one of my bookmarks is to here

http://www.itulip.com/forums/search.php?search_type=1&searchuser=EJ&starteronly=1&sortby=threadstart

that allows me to quickly search for new threads started by EJ.

Noted -- but the issues as I see them are:

1 ) I want *any* response by EJ, not just started threads (and yes, there is a way to get all recent posts by a user)
2 ) I want to also search on a number of other posters as mentioned before so, #Issue 1 x N
3 ) The results aren't always clear and I don't always remember which postings I've already read, net being I end up re-reading several entries
4 ) This is completely manual, only runs when I remember to and thus can take substantial amounts of time

And yeah, I've got a solution of sorts, waaaahhhh, waaaaahhh, it's all about me, but if there was one thing I could change that would make my being on iTulip a lot smoother, here it is...... :-)

[seobook]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

if you want all posts from a user you would do this

http://www.itulip.com/forums/search.php?search_type=1&searchuser=EJ&sortby=dateline&showposts=1

and then select "Sort Results by" as "last posting date"

incidentally, you can save default search settings & then just rotate through a list of 3 or 5 users...this stuff is pretty darn easy.

[flintlock]

Re: Racist threads on iTulip

I've also grown tired of the rude behavior. I'm sure others who have lurked here but never posted have probably moved on because of this. I don't mind a disagreement, but when someone's posts continually start with phrases along the line of , " Your absurd fantasy..." or "If you had half a brain...." then that is going past a healthy argument to the point of just being rude. In fact, sometimes the whole purpose of these posts seems to be to strike out at someone rather than add to the discussion.

Itulip is not of any one particular political bent. So if you are merely looking for a crowd to agree with you on everything, then this is not the place. So posters need to expect to "catch it" whenever they post something politically charged. But that does not mean the reply needs to be nasty or mean spirited. Rather it is a chance for you to "back up" your own views with reasoning and evidence.

I think Fred said it best when he asked if we would speak the same way if the person was standing in front of us.

I think some members are looking for an argument regardless of what is said. I think some are merely looking to provoke a response. Those seem to be the ones responsible for 90% of the bad manners.