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Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

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  • Slimprofits
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    [W]e suggest a distinctive tactic for breaking up the hard core of extremists who supply conspiracy theories: cognitive infiltration of extremist groups, whereby government agents or their allies (acting either virtually or in real space, and either openly or anonymously) will undermine the crippled epistemology of believers by planting doubts about the theories and stylized facts that circulate within such groups, thereby introducing beneficial cognitive diversity. (Page 219.)
    It kinda makes you wonder who ol' Cass is paying to 'nudge' Itulip discussion threads.

    Leave a comment:


  • jtabeb
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Look at me.

    My dad was a Jihadi (against the russians), and here I am serving in the air force, so it's no hard, nothing is ingrained in these people to make them act in that way (There is no Biological component, me thinks).

    (and I have to warn you, I am already prepped on this one, so it's not as impromptu as it appears).



    Bottom line: You have to find a way to allow young men be able to get married much much earlier. (You are all gonna laugh, but if you listen, I think you are going to learn something profound).

    A Job, A house, A car, and a prenuptial settlement (usual in gold) are all the things a guy has to come up with to just be in a financial position to marry someone. (You have to remember that in the more conservative parts of the ME, if you ain't married, you ain't getting any, on the sly maybe, but no regular nookie.

    (This is where I just lost half of you).

    For the half that remains, take the above reality and plot that against anywhere from a 40-75% unemployment rate/underemployment rate, and you have a recipe for a very pissed off, hopeless (they don't have any hope in their ability to have a future) group of testosterone filled young men who are easily subject to "Influencers" (Jihadi recuiters). When these recuiters start offering hope in the "Here and now" by offering to at least make the life of your family better with money, and in the hereafter with promises of "No pain, Virgins, and eternal paradise" with a quick path to success, you have a "get rich quick scheme" with middle eastern characeristics that play to economic reality AND pre-existing religious and cultural beliefs.

    Even then you have that "married with children" type of folks that still end up in the Jihadi Movement (My dad for example). That happens via the radicalization nexus and through "influencers" convincing folks of their marginalization in the political process.

    It's funny to me that the Jihadi's that end up staying in a country and who become "transplants" end up able to marry and have kids because of their previous Jihadi exploits. (They garner the social status, and economic status, necessary to have families). Of course, they then go on to radicalize the communities that they are a part of (send their kids to Religious schools, etc) and the process of community radicalization continues with each generation.

    This leads to an ever increasing mess. But if you back it up to the root cause and start addressing THOSE causes, you have a pretty good move forward plan.

    Root Cause (Angry and hopeless Socio-economically disavantaged testosterone filled young males, that are unable to move forward in life and love, who are easily lured into the ME's version of a get rich quick scheme).

    Imagine if you are religious young middle eastern man of modest means. If the economy is GOOD and you have a job, you are going to have to wait until your early to mid thirties, just to have a chance to wed and have all the benefits that that allows. That's in the best of times, now think about the worst of economic times and think what does to the equation.

    When I visited my cousins in the occupied west bank, there was anger at the Israeli's, but that was TINY compared to the overwhelming frustration of not being able to move forward with their lives (which, of course was blamed again on the Israeli's). If you ask young men in the Middle East what makes them mad, in public for the cameras they will give you the standard answers. If you get to know them and talk to them, you get a much more personal and palpable reason for their anger, " I can't get a job, won't be able to afford to get married and have a family, I'm stuck with no opportunities to have a life". That's a future Jihadi recruit, and the older he gets, and the longer the testosterone builds, the angrier and more easily recruited that person is likely to be.
    To Whom It may concern,

    I'm pleased you liked my idea, and hope it nothing but success. If you need more assistance, I'm more than happy to offer my services in anyway that I can be of help.

    Thank You

    V/R

    JT

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8473215.stm

    Leave a comment:


  • touchring
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    The US maybe able to recover from a collapse fairly quickly, so it might not be a bad thing. On the other hand, the same cannot be said of countries with autocratic governments that have cracked down on speech, media and politics for decades. Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan are good examples, once the autocratic government is toppled, the country goes into a death spiral.


    Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
    My working hypothesis is that we do not have a general society collapse, but that until we do have a substantial collapse of the current military/industrial/financial corptocracy, affairs in the large (at the national and international levels, at least) are FUBAR.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThePythonicCow
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    I'm gonna have to disagree there too. I don't think letting society collapse is the best idea
    My working hypothesis is that we do not have a general society collapse, but that until we do have a substantial collapse of the current military/industrial/financial corptocracy, affairs in the large (at the national and international levels, at least) are FUBAR. It may be decades before we have that collapse, unfortunately. I'm hoping it will be within the next five or ten years. Meanwhile, local economic life will trundle along somewhat wounded and anemic, with pockets of more serious break down (such as some urban areas), but it won't be a broad scale Mad Max scenario.

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    As for resource scarcity, well I guess you didn't watch the Video with Buckminster Fuller now did you. Please watch it, I think it will greatly change your perspective.
    I suspect we have a failure to communicate here. I agree that "Plenty" is possible (for a while - see below,) and I certainly agree that geopolitics is operating on the principle of scarcity (especially of petro) right now.

    What I was saying is that the human economy has had sufficient abundance, especially since World War II and especially the dominant anglo-American military/industrial/financial corptocracy, that it's cruising for a bruising, as in a Minsky Moment or a "die-off" (of said corptocracy dominance.) For more marginal areas such as equatorial Africa, and parts of India, China and Indonesia, this die-off risks becoming a substantial population reduction :eek:. The number of unmarried young men in China with no prospects is scary.

    The risk in America is that society breakdown will occur (or be provoked, for conspiracy theorists such as myself) in spots and be used to justify further oppression, as the dominant corptocracy asserts it's power in order to remain in control and to further consolidate it's "ownership" of us "serfs", our property, our labor, our taxed and indebted income streams, and our drugged out and mind numbed obedience.

    As I said before, the dominant corptocracy has had it's way too well for too long, so will find it's path increasingly difficult. Eventually it must suffer a major collapse, but if our history rhymes with that of the Roman Empire, this could (unfortunately) take some centuries to play out. I'm hopeful that it plays out soon enough that I can see us coming out the other side in my lifetime. We might even see it play out in just the next few years, and do so without a major human population decline. That would be good.

    Too much Buckminster Fuller "plenty" leads to a "Minsky moment" for the dominant corptocracy. With a bit of luck and with humanity connecting at the grassroots level like never before, we might get through this Minsky moment relatively quickly, with a substantial proportion of the damage confined to the unhealthy elements of the corptocracy that grew too fat.

    The depth of corruption of the corptocracy is immense however, truly stunning. This might not end well or soon.

    There is not a chance in h*ll that we can just magically transform civilization into a healthy time of plenty. We've got some serious purging of these poison's to be done first.

    Nor can we ever find a lasting time of peace and abundance, even if we found the equivalent of a billion Saudi Arabia's of energy deliverable to any point on the globe for a penny a barrel in convenient form. That would just lead to a nastier Minsky moment, a bigger die-off. No species, no culture (bacteria or human) can endure unlimited abundance forever. When faced with an absence of predators (or resource limits), we always expand to the point of collapse.

    Correction to above -- it's not so much that the military/industrial complex is operating on a principle of scarcity as it is that this complex is becoming increasingly more deeply flawed by its own inner corruption and contradictions. This leads to a secondary symptom of scarcity (yes, we are fighting in many places in the world for oil.) But short term fixes to that scarcity will not heal that corruption.

    We are like the obese person with cancer of the digestive system. Yes, they may be starving now for proper nutrition given the collapse of their digestive system even as they remain obese, but feeding them pallets of free food will not help their condition. They need a serious overhaul of their spiritual and physical being, following a serious purging of the fats and toxins that have built up in their system. They might not make it, and it won't be quick if they do make it.

    Those here who think that some improved source of energy or some improved source of startup funding or some third party will save the day are wrong, in my view. They underestimate the extent and variety of the toxins of corruption that infest our larger scale institutions. They leave out the necessary purge.

    Our problem is not a shortage of oil. Rather the shortage of oil is aggravating the problems of vast corruption that have prospered in the recent times of cheap oil.

    Leave a comment:


  • ggirod
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    My reflection on Buckminster Fuller's talk:

    Reality was catching up with a nation rampaging in the grips of consumption, warfare, and technological change.

    1956 M. King Hubbert*created and first used the models behind peak oil in 1956 to accurately predict that United States oil production would peak between 1965 and 1970. The early 1970's proved him right. Today we face version 2.0 where the world peak is reached

    1962 Rachel Carlson's book Silent Spring was published, showing how we were messing up our planet with pesticides.

    1964 - Smoking and Health: Report of the Advisory Committee to the Surgeon General of the United States was published

    1968 - The Population Bomb was a best-selling book written by Paul R. Ehrlich -- he used the best models of his day so his predictions were off. Not too far, though, because famine is a constant threat today and many of us will live to see it in all its glory somewhere in the world.

    1973 - Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries or the OAPEC (consisting of the*Arab*members of*OPEC, plus*Egypt*and*Syria) proclaimed an oil*embargo*"in response to the U.S. decision to re-supply the Israeli military" during the*Yom Kippur war; it lasted until March 1974.

    These events and discoveries led many to react to the oncoming scarcity, environmental destruction, and threats to health with concern and new regulations.

    The movements were small and nothing really significant happened until the government started messing with Big Tobacco. That was the last straw and led to the perfection of corporate denial techniques. Advertising cigarettes to children was free speech. Med students were enlisted to say that cigarettes were good for you. Then, when that failed, they denied the link to sickness and death. Bogus non-peer-reviewed research was funded and published all over the place by moles hired by the tobacco companies. Then they moved on to the "Smoking is an Adult Choice" and so on. By titheing a bit they were able to divert a small portion of their proceeds of death to influence congress and keep meaningful action at bay.

    Later, Oil, mining, industrial/chemical, and agricultural companies were able to adopt the same methods and employed tithing for lobbies to subvert any attempts to respond to the problems. The US came close, in 1974, when fuel standards were put in place. Those could have been enhanced and saved lots of oil. Instead, they were stalled and effectively rolled back. My favorite one is that when we hit peak oil and, instead of trying to conserve and solve the problem, we left the gold standard so we could continue to burn lots of oil. Big Oil coming back at ya. The middle east didn't like our worthless paper, but needed the cash.

    When you add denial to the unfettered ideology of the free market as the be-all and end-all of social order, you make a potent adversary to human progress. Oligarchies have proven their capacity for evil many times yet we still encourage them.

    Were Mr. Fuller's dream to have been accomplished (and it most certainly could have been), we would have a surplus of oil now and would be using it for critical transportation needs and food production. Windmills and alternative energy would be commonplace and we would not be poisoning our waters and infants with mercury from coal power plants. We would have addressed the opportunity of automation by finding ways to distribute the gains of its implementation to the people instead of finding ways to concentrate those gains in the hands of a few while letting the many suffer. The benefits of plentiful and cheap energy, enlightened wealth distribution, and resource conservation, would have extended to the poorer nations who now would not be feeling the need to produce lots of children so a few survive to help the family.

    Now, all of that said, this is being composed on MLK Day. The fate of that great man and his cohorts serves as a reminder to all, that the world was not ready to hear Buckminster Fuller's answer. Sadly, forty six years later the same is true.

    In those four decades, we managed to reduce smoking in spite of all the denial activity. DDT is outlawed EXCEPT for prevention of malaria so birds no longer die. Human mother's milk does, however, still contain DDT in excess of dairy purity standards. Whooppeee. At this rate, we will probably not get all of the 1960s challenges met before resource wars overtake the planet. I can only hope that whatever civilization takes over from the current corrupted mess will be able to gather enough resources to implement Buckminster Fuller's dream.

    (all facts quoted from wikipedia)

    --------------
    Follow the Money and vote accordingly. Move your money to small banks, carpool with your neighbors and stash your savings in the small bank, pay cash when possible, cook one more meal each week from scratch, specifically avoid artificial food, substitute local food in your menu whenever possible, plant a garden. Nobody says you gotta feed the monster.

    Leave a comment:


  • c1ue
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb
    Before you respond back (and I really want to hear what you have to say), can you do me a favor and watch this, and then tell me what they guy is missing?
    R. Buck was a nice old guy, but the sentiment on display is very emblematic of the 'feel good' era of the '60s.

    Besides missing the (thus far) fundamentally limited energy supply which is transformed for human benefit by industrialization, the 'feel good'ers are missing the dark side: SALIGIA

    Avarice, Envy, Gluttony, Pride, Sloth

    Rather than the generations moving forward progressing into greater enlightenment, it seems rather the reverse has occurred.

    Is it theoretically possible to have every human being limit themselves just to what they need? Yes. But it will never happen.

    Just as too much selfishness is bad, so too does too much 'altruism' also became bad - as the individual turns into an ant (with a Queen Ant somewhere still).

    Leave a comment:


  • ASH
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by oddlots View Post
    On the flip side I think there's also a psychological payoff to labeling something a conspiracy theory. I'm not thinking of anyone here but I certainly see it used in mainstream media this way. To my mind, it works as a way of enlisting the authority of MadCow's herd to silence criticism.

    ...

    It also illustrates that it re-enforces the status quo and I often see it used this way. How many times have you heard it in the mouth of someone who you honestly believe is ill informed, who really just wants to win an argument, or is too fearful to consider that there may be a real problem their opponent is trying to highlight or come to grips with.
    One of the major problems we encounter talking about 'conspiracy theories' is a matter of definition and degree. As audrey_girl pointed out in another recent thread, there are plenty of examples from history that meet the legal definition of a "conspiracy". Basically, all you need for a conspiracy under federal law is two people agreeing to do something illegal, and then taking action toward that end. Ironically, the official description of 9/11 is itself a conspiracy theory, in this respect: it describes a largely successful conspiracy of foreign Islamic militants to commit acts of terror within the United States. Yet the phrase "9/11 conspiracy" is typically associated with those who doubt the official version.

    Obviously, no self-described doubter of 'conspiracy theories' can really doubt that people collude to break the law. Doubters are therefore being imprecise with their language when they dismiss something as a conspiracy theory. What they mean is that something is an implausible conspiracy theory. Characteristics which might make a conspiracy theory implausible include the requirement that the conspiracy involve a large number of participants and operate with secrecy for a long span of time, that it require superhuman foresight or influence over complex events to achieve its objective, or -- by application of Occam's razor -- that the theory itself explains something which is easily understood by a much less complex theory, or which needs no explanation.

    In the end, it isn't conspiracy itself which makes an implausible theory. We would probably waste less time around here if we avoided the term, and instead focussed on the strengths and weaknesses of various theories. That would avoid supporters of a given theory saying "this past conspiracy was clearly a real thing, so my conspiracy theory is therefore plausible" and doubters saying "your theory requires conspiracy, as does the belief that the government is hiding little green men, so your theory is clearly batty."

    Leave a comment:


  • jtabeb
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post

    Sometimes all "system preserving" options are bad ones and it is time to reach for the ejection handle. When that time comes, false hope can be fatal.
    I'm gonna have to disagree there too. I don't think letting society collapse is the best idea (I could live a survival only type of existence on a self-contained piece of turf, but that doesn't mean that I'd like to.)

    As for resource scarcity, well I guess you didn't watch the Video with Buckminster Fuller now did you. Please watch it, I think it will greatly change your perspective.

    Geopolitics are operating on the principle of scarcity right now. That is leading to some pretty serious antagonism.

    If a concept of "Plenty" were possible, don't you think it would be best to change our concept of operations? (I'm pretty sure it is, but for now, just accept the proposition for argument's sake so that we can answer the question posed at the beginning of this paragraph).

    Leave a comment:


  • jtabeb
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
    How would you fix Jihad?

    Cindy
    Look at me.

    My dad was a Jihadi (against the russians), and here I am serving in the air force, so it's no hard, nothing is ingrained in these people to make them act in that way (There is no Biological component, me thinks).

    (and I have to warn you, I am already prepped on this one, so it's not as impromptu as it appears).



    Bottom line: You have to find a way to allow young men be able to get married much much earlier. (You are all gonna laugh, but if you listen, I think you are going to learn something profound).

    A Job, A house, A car, and a prenuptial settlement (usual in gold) are all the things a guy has to come up with to just be in a financial position to marry someone. (You have to remember that in the more conservative parts of the ME, if you ain't married, you ain't getting any, on the sly maybe, but no regular nookie.

    (This is where I just lost half of you).

    For the half that remains, take the above reality and plot that against anywhere from a 40-75% unemployment rate/underemployment rate, and you have a recipe for a very pissed off, hopeless (they don't have any hope in their ability to have a future) group of testosterone filled young men who are easily subject to "Influencers" (Jihadi recuiters). When these recuiters start offering hope in the "Here and now" by offering to at least make the life of your family better with money, and in the hereafter with promises of "No pain, Virgins, and eternal paradise" with a quick path to success, you have a "get rich quick scheme" with middle eastern characeristics that play to economic reality AND pre-existing religious and cultural beliefs.

    Even then you have that "married with children" type of folks that still end up in the Jihadi Movement (My dad for example). That happens via the radicalization nexus and through "influencers" convincing folks of their marginalization in the political process.

    It's funny to me that the Jihadi's that end up staying in a country and who become "transplants" end up able to marry and have kids because of their previous Jihadi exploits. (They garner the social status, and economic status, necessary to have families). Of course, they then go on to radicalize the communities that they are a part of (send their kids to Religious schools, etc) and the process of community radicalization continues with each generation.

    This leads to an ever increasing mess. But if you back it up to the root cause and start addressing THOSE causes, you have a pretty good move forward plan.

    Root Cause (Angry and hopeless Socio-economically disavantaged testosterone filled young males, that are unable to move forward in life and love, who are easily lured into the ME's version of a get rich quick scheme).

    Imagine if you are religious young middle eastern man of modest means. If the economy is GOOD and you have a job, you are going to have to wait until your early to mid thirties, just to have a chance to wed and have all the benefits that that allows. That's in the best of times, now think about the worst of economic times and think what does to the equation.

    When I visited my cousins in the occupied west bank, there was anger at the Israeli's, but that was TINY compared to the overwhelming frustration of not being able to move forward with their lives (which, of course was blamed again on the Israeli's). If you ask young men in the Middle East what makes them mad, in public for the cameras they will give you the standard answers. If you get to know them and talk to them, you get a much more personal and palpable reason for their anger, " I can't get a job, won't be able to afford to get married and have a family, I'm stuck with no opportunities to have a life". That's a future Jihadi recruit, and the older he gets, and the longer the testosterone builds, the angrier and more easily recruited that person is likely to be.
    Last edited by jtabeb; 01-18-10, 11:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diarmuid
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by cindykimlisa View Post
    How would you fix Jihad?

    Cindy
    Hmmm! get out of the middle east as per Ron Paul / Denis Kucinich, might be a good start:p

    Leave a comment:


  • cindykimlisa
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    I don't care about labels, just effective policies.

    (And I think you lean that way yourself, cow:rolleyes


    Problem with the fair tax, is that it provides no way to address entitlements (the unfunded liability type) nor how to provide income to the structurally unemployed (That's a big problem).

    Reform is GOING to have to be comprehensive, otherwise, it simply is going to fail.

    You have to address:

    Environmental constraints
    Geopolitical constraints
    Energy SecurityPolicy
    National Security
    International Security
    The Structure of the Economy
    Unemployment
    Housing
    Healthcare
    Entitlement Spending
    Governmental Spending
    Budget Deficits
    World Economy
    Currency Exchange rate stability
    Political Process


    And a few other points (Just A FEW)

    Point IS though, that is not insurmountable.

    The POLICY SIDE is EASY, synergy is relatively straightforward to achieve as long as you are not constrained by dogma or ideology, it's the politics that are a bitch!

    (You can take 1 Oz AU to the bank on that point!)

    Cow, Give me ANY problem in the world, and I can fix it (from a policy perspective). I'll leave the political implementation to YOU, Deal?

    (In Fact, I'll double-dog-dare you to find me a world problem that is "intractable", policy CAN be Simple yet Elegantly Effective! Politics on the other hand... No so Much, UNLESS you have publicly funded elections, in which case he political problem goes away. See, told ya, solutions for everything and the chicks for free!)
    How would you fix Jihad?

    Cindy

    Leave a comment:


  • ThePythonicCow
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Okay, Cow, I'm asking, what's your counterproposal?
    Well, I don't really have a counterproposal that will "fix things."

    That's one of the problems I find with most efforts to analyze our present condition. Most such efforts feel compelled to offer a solution, so they consider possible solutions A, B, C and D and after showing that A, B and C can't work, conclude that therefore the solution must be D.

    Sometimes all "system preserving" options are bad ones and it is time to reach for the ejection handle. When that time comes, false hope can be fatal.

    Personally, I'm doing like the small mammals did after that big asteroid hit planet earth in the time of the dinosaurs. I'm hiding under rocks and scavenging for bits of food, hoping to get by and not be noticed too much by a hungry T-Rex. I worry more for my son, who is a young man at this point. Young men are not well suited for or served by a life of "staying low, getting by." The awesome opportunities that I enjoyed as a technocratic servant to the decades of American dominance are diminished now, and my son's particular talents less well suited for such a role in any case.

    Perhaps a more positive description would be the role of remnant as described by Charles Hugh Smith.

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Of course I disagree, but I still want to understand what you think we should do. I personally don't see how in a commoditized world labor market and with a declining natural resource base, they old ways are going to work. That, and the fact that we have so much production, we can't sell the world's productive output! Think about that for a second, we have SO MUCH productive capacity that there is not enough world-wide buying power to purchase it. I think you can go two ways with that (let it atrophy, or use it).
    Yes, it's a problem. Consider what happens to most species on this great Earth when they lose their natural predators. The natural "predator" of humans was scarcity. Our populations have been limited by the scarcity of food, water, clothing, shelter, tools, energy and resources.

    When the natural constraints on a particular species population diminish dramatically, that population mushrooms. Usually, sooner or later, this means some disaster comes along.

    No species, humans included, understands how to organize it's affairs in a long term sustainable fashion when there is a relative absence of external constraints. Well, actually, there are always constraints. The interesting point is whether those constraints are relatively steady-state or chaotic and catastrophic.

    In particular, regarding human economic activity and capacity, yes it has seemed bountiful this last 50 or 100 years. But "economics" is still the study of managing a scarcity of resources, capital or labor. As I've noted before, humans do not understand how to organize its global economic or political affairs in a fashion that achieves the widespread freedom or prosperity that seems so easily within our grasp.

    Leave a comment:


  • lalla
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    "cindy" is probably ONE OF THEM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jtabeb
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by ThePythonicCow View Post
    No, your suggestion only captures only half of the freemarket.

    Yes, people could spend their $1000 on crack cocaine if they wanted to.

    But that half that's not free market, or perhaps more accurately, that's destructive of the fabric of society, is the removal of basic needs. For society to work, individuals must of necessity have to form various groups and relations to get along. Replacing the most essential motivation for forming such structure (the motivation to not starve or freeze to death) with some freebie from Washington, DC destroys the fabric of society.

    Okay, Cow, I'm asking, what's your counterproposal? (Seriously, I want to know)

    Of course I disagree, but I still want to understand what you think we should do. I personally don't see how in a commoditized world labor market and with a declining natural resource base, they old ways are going to work. That, and the fact that we have so much production, we can't sell the world's productive output! Think about that for a second, we have SO MUCH productive capacity that there is not enough world-wide buying power to purchase it. I think you can go two ways with that (let it atrophy, or use it).

    But I am open minded. If you are willing to have a go, I am as well.


    Before you respond back (and I really want to hear what you have to say), can you do me a favor and watch this, and then tell me what they guy is missing?

    Most profound Guy I've ever heard.

    (Double foot-stomp on the totally serious here.)

    Last edited by jtabeb; 01-17-10, 10:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThePythonicCow
    replied
    Re: Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    The difference is (mainly) that the freemarket rules in my previous example, It does not in the cradle to grave social model (Great Society).
    No, your suggestion only captures only half of the freemarket.

    Yes, people could spend their $1000 on crack cocaine if they wanted to.

    But that half that's not free market, or perhaps more accurately, that's destructive of the fabric of society, is the removal of basic needs. For society to work, individuals must of necessity have to form various groups and relations to get along. Replacing the most essential motivation for forming such structure (the motivation to not starve or freeze to death) with some freebie from Washington, DC destroys the fabric of society.

    Originally posted by jtabeb View Post
    Can you guess who are these workers living such an extreme version of socialism right here in the USA, Cow?
    This sounds like the life I would have had as a military officer, had I decided to remain in the service long enough to retire.

    Leave a comment:

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