The Face of Raising Unemployment

[Rajiv]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

The fact that you have a program like this is a testament to the generosity of Americans despite already heavy taxation. I'm confident that your church would have even more money to help with if your members weren't paying higher taxes than Russians are.

Americans do not pay higher taxes than they did in the 1960s and 1970s -- when their levels of generosity and well being were much higher

Tax Rates for single person from 1965 to 1976 (the rates were not indexed to inflation then)

14.00%	$0.00	$500.00
15.00%	$500.00	$1000.00
16.00%	$1000.00	$1500.00
17.00%	$1500.00	$2000.00
19.00%	$2000.00	$4000.00
21.00%	$4000.00	$6000.00
24.00%	$6000.00	$8000.00
25.00%	$8000.00	$10000.00
27.00%	$10000.00	$12000.00
29.00%	$12000.00	$14000.00
31.00%	$14000.00	$16000.00
34.00%	$16000.00	$18000.00
36.00%	$18000.00	$20000.00
38.00%	$20000.00	$22000.00
40.00%	$22000.00	$26000.00
45.00%	$26000.00	$32000.00
50.00%	$32000.00	$38000.00
55.00%	$38000.00	$44000.00
60.00%	$44000.00	$50000.00
62.00%	$50000.00	$60000.00
64.00%	$60000.00	$70000.00
66.00%	$70000.00	$80000.00
68.00%	$80000.00	$90000.00
69.00%	$90000.00	$100000.00
70.00%	$100000.00	-

However let me give an extract from Elaine Supkis -- and I can vouch that this is how things were then

The United States believed in saving money in my youth not because it was good but because the banks demanded this before they lent anything. The process of socialization was rather simple. When I was only a child, I couldn't wait until I could deposit my babysitting loot in my own bank account. I kept this account until the beginning of the banking collapse in 1970. Then, I went to Wells Fargo and had a big fight with them and withdrew all my money.

I didn't go into debt to go to the University. I worked from May to September in a local bar and this paid enough to live on all the year and pay for school fees! And go on vacation. And I didn't work five days a week, either. Life was good fun back then. Heh. And I learned a lot about banking and business chatting with my customers who were sex-starved gnomes and so, eager to have a young thing listen to their war stories.

The late 1960's was America's financial high tide. It was quite wonderful, actually. I was able to buy hundreds of classical records, dresses and my truck as well as other nice stuff just on babysitting money, working part time ON MINIMUM WAGES. In college, I worked only part time [much higher than minimum wage] and had plenty of leisure and came out of this with zero debt while living in my own two bedroom house which cost me $68 a month. My utility bills were about $12 a month. My pay was about $75 a week and sometimes a lot more due to tips. A dollar was worth something back then. Rent was supposed to be less than one week's wages, not the present 50% of income we see so often today.

Anyway, before you could buy a house, the bank wanted you to pay back some sort of loan. I was rather pissed about that requirement when I went to buy my first house. I always paid cash for things and saved! I asked the officer, what should I buy? He said, 'Buy a car.'

'I already have a 55 Chevy which I rebuilt, with cash,' I complained. Well, I had to go into debt to pay for my first child's doctor. Then, I qualified for a mortgage! This illustrates how parsimonious bankers were before Ronnie Reagan.

Going through grad school, in the 1970's, it was possible to live well, and save money on a graduate assistants pay. But I doubt if it is feasible now.

The problem today is not taxation, but rather indebtedness of the US public brought on by the gutting of banking laws starting with Reagan and continuing through Clinton and finally Bush.

[Master Shake]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

That was definitely not the case in the 1970's -- the demise of compassion in the states started with the Reagan Administration and the simultaneous rise of the "Yuppies" and their glorification of "selfishness"

What a bunch of bullshit. Study after study has shown that conservatives/Republicans are much more generous with their own money than the so-called compassionate liberals. Google Joe Biden's charitable contributions.

[tombat1913]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Since 1990, I have served as a pastor in the UCC (Obama's former denomination) in central Pa. Never in the past 18 years have I had sooo many people call me for assistance. What was once rare now happens several times a week. These people aren't just passing through either. They live in the community. "My electric has been turned off." "We're out of food and the food bank told us to call the local churches." "I've never been layed-off before, I'm really ashamed to call you but we're behinded in our bills." ...and so on. I believe that 10 million are now called "unemployed." This is what some of them look like. I suspect this figure will rise significantly over the next year or so. I suspect that I'll be hearing from some of them too.

On a side note, as we use this and other unfolding economic information to our advantage, at the risk of sounding like a socialist or communist , let us remember, in real ways, others who have/or will fall hard through no fault real of their own.

It doesn't sound socialist at all, as a matter of fact what you do is exactly what a free market does. Socialism destroys virtuous voluntary programs like yours because the vitue is lost when it's taken by force. The fact that you have a program like this is a testament to the generosity of Americans despite already heavy taxation. I'm confident that your church would have even more money to help with if your members weren't paying higher taxes than Russians are.

[Rajiv]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

I am from America and I am telling you, we are not that compassionate when it comes to our own.

That was definitely not the case in the 1970's -- the demise of compassion in the states started with the Reagan Administration and the simultaneous rise of the "Yuppies" and their glorification of "selfishness"

[Shakespear]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Being single it was simple for me to pack up and leave. Overseas was the ticket. Eventually working for a consulting company doing business in Latin America. Since then I have been out of the country for over 20 years.

I could return as a petroleum engineer to the US but I prefer travel :-)

[tree]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Deeply unhappy to hear this,............any single women......say 25-40 ish?
Cheers
Mike

I have read that during the killing inflation of Germany's Weimar Republic (the 1920s), many of those desperate for money or some other form of sustenance were quite willing to suspend their usual inhibitions in matters sexual.

For those of all genders, a few drinks eased transactions.

[Wild Style]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

I dont really think that. I am not from America and from my perspective Americans are pretty compassionate and willing to help, at least way more than people in other parts of the world I have lived, imo...

I am from America and I am telling you, we are not that compassionate when it comes to our own. That would be too socialist. We will give donations to help out Dafur and earthquakes in Iran and Indonesia though!

We are going to have a long and hard road ahead. I heard someone say they think the Northeast might see some deaths this year because people can't afford to heat their homes (sort of plays off of what jtabeb said). I have also seen video of people living in tent cities out in the midwest and the western states. It is a sad state of affairs we are in.

I feel strong sympathy for those without work, working in some little town in Virginia with no other major employer than lets say some company such as Hoover ( I saw a documentary how this company left the US for better profits in building overseas their products). The company is in financial stress and the plant is shut down. This is pure terror. It must be like someone dropping a bomb in one's living room. Nothing is the same and you suddenly have the feeling that you are NOT the decider of your destiny. Shear Terror!!!

How do I know? Because I not once was on the short end of the $/bbl oil industry as a petroleum engineer. This first time I lost my job because my top 100 company had financial problems gave me a taste of how it feels to loose control of your life. Quickly I learned that there was no sense in relying on a job giver. You need control and be able to dictate the conditions. This is not easy but I found a way. I learned four languages thus could work almost anywhere. Since then I have been in control.

If you have something in the bank and no family to support it is easy. However with mortgage, family and just bills coming by mail it must be a nightmare.

I pray for these people and hope that they come together to support each other to get through this mess. This is a time to do things together and help as much as possible those in need.

did you ever have to leave the states? I know a couple they were engineers (one was mechanical and other computer engineer or something like that). Shortly after 9/11 they both lost their jobs. Almost two years with no work the husband ended up with a job in Japan and the wife in Hong Kong. The husband would have to fly back and forth to see the wife and kid every so often.

[tsetsefly]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Thanks for sharing this! This is really said. On the "socialism/communist" statement. This is America, home of apple pie and individualism. Unless wide spread suffering takes place I don't think we will see much in the way of compassion here.

I dont really think that. I am not from America and from my perspective Americans are pretty compassionate and willing to help, at least way more than people in other parts of the world I have lived, imo...

[Shakespear]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

I feel strong sympathy for those without work, working in some little town in Virginia with no other major employer than lets say some company such as Hoover ( I saw a documentary how this company left the US for better profits in building overseas their products). The company is in financial stress and the plant is shut down. This is pure terror. It must be like someone dropping a bomb in one's living room. Nothing is the same and you suddenly have the feeling that you are NOT the decider of your destiny. Shear Terror!!!

How do I know? Because I not once was on the short end of the $/bbl oil industry as a petroleum engineer. This first time I lost my job because my top 100 company had financial problems gave me a taste of how it feels to loose control of your life. Quickly I learned that there was no sense in relying on a job giver. You need control and be able to dictate the conditions. This is not easy but I found a way. I learned four languages thus could work almost anywhere. Since then I have been in control.

If you have something in the bank and no family to support it is easy. However with mortgage, family and just bills coming by mail it must be a nightmare.

I pray for these people and hope that they come together to support each other to get through this mess. This is a time to do things together and help as much as possible those in need.

[jtabeb]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Since 1990, I have served as a pastor in the UCC (Obama's former denomination) in central Pa. Never in the past 18 years have I had sooo many people call me for assistance. What was once rare now happens several times a week. These people aren't just passing through either. They live in the community. "My electric has been turned off." "We're out of food and the food bank told us to call the local churches." "I've never been layed-off before, I'm really ashamed to call you but we're behinded in our bills." ...and so on. I believe that 10 million are now called "unemployed." This is what some of them look like. I suspect this figure will rise significantly over the next year or so. I suspect that I'll be hearing from some of them too.

On a side note, as we use this and other unfolding economic information to our advantage, at the risk of sounding like a socialist or communist , let us remember, in real ways, others who have/or will fall hard through no fault real of their own.

I just had to pay my sister-in-law's electric bill, she couldn't afford to fill up the oil tank for her furnace, so she bought electric space heaters instead. She is employed and couldn't swing the resulting bill. A lot more poeple are going to experience a lot more pain. (while the select few "the chosen, the privlaged and the utterly corrupt" on Wall Street enjoy their $700 Billion for bonuses , acuisitions and mergers)

Need some Karma to play out.

[we_are_toast]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Since 1990, I have served as a pastor in the UCC (Obama's former denomination) in central Pa. Never in the past 18 years have I had sooo many people call me for assistance. What was once rare now happens several times a week. These people aren't just passing through either. They live in the community. "My electric has been turned off." "We're out of food and the food bank told us to call the local churches." "I've never been layed-off before, I'm really ashamed to call you but we're behinded in our bills." ...and so on. I believe that 10 million are now called "unemployed." This is what some of them look like. I suspect this figure will rise significantly over the next year or so. I suspect that I'll be hearing from some of them too.

On a side note, as we use this and other unfolding economic information to our advantage, at the risk of sounding like a socialist or communist , let us remember, in real ways, others who have/or will fall hard through no fault real of their own.

In a different thread FRED posted we are nation of inventors and business people. We are MUCH more than that! Your job is about to get much harder. I am not a religious person, but I have the greatest respect for the work you do in your community and the help you offer to those who need it. The very best of luck to you as we enter these difficult times.

[Wild Style]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Since 1990, I have served as a pastor in the UCC (Obama's former denomination) in central Pa. Never in the past 18 years have I had sooo many people call me for assistance. What was once rare now happens several times a week. These people aren't just passing through either. They live in the community. "My electric has been turned off." "We're out of food and the food bank told us to call the local churches." "I've never been layed-off before, I'm really ashamed to call you but we're behinded in our bills." ...and so on. I believe that 10 million are now called "unemployed." This is what some of them look like. I suspect this figure will rise significantly over the next year or so. I suspect that I'll be hearing from some of them too.

On a side note, as we use this and other unfolding economic information to our advantage, at the risk of sounding like a socialist or communist , let us remember, in real ways, others who have/or will fall hard through no fault real of their own.

Thanks for sharing this! This is really said. On the "socialism/communist" statement. This is America, home of apple pie and individualism. Unless wide spread suffering takes place I don't think we will see much in the way of compassion here.

[Mega]

Re: The Face of Raising Unemployment

Deeply unhappy to hear this,............any single women......say 25-40 ish?
Cheers
Mike

[PHS]

Since 1990, I have served as a pastor in the UCC (Obama's former denomination) in central Pa. Never in the past 18 years have I had sooo many people call me for assistance. What was once rare now happens several times a week. These people aren't just passing through either. They live in the community. "My electric has been turned off." "We're out of food and the food bank told us to call the local churches." "I've never been layed-off before, I'm really ashamed to call you but we're behinded in our bills." ...and so on. I believe that 10 million are now called "unemployed." This is what some of them look like. I suspect this figure will rise significantly over the next year or so. I suspect that I'll be hearing from some of them too.

On a side note, as we use this and other unfolding economic information to our advantage, at the risk of sounding like a socialist or communist , let us remember, in real ways, others who have/or will fall hard through no fault real of their own.