Allende

[Thailandnotes]

Full story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...67c_print.html

“Eventually, the web of murder and torture that became the infamous Operation Condor reached across the globe, wreaking revenge on Allende partisans who had managed to flee. Gen. Carlos Prats, a critic of Pinochet, was bombed to kingdom come along with his wife as he started a car in Buenos Aires; Allende’s ambassador Orlando Letelier was blown up with his American assistant on the streets of Washington.”

[vt]

Re: Allende

Communism, Fascism; both tyrannies against the people.

Constitutions are violated by radical governments on both ends of the spectrum, most recently by the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

The murders of supporters of these regimes are totally uncalled for, but we have to evolve politically where a small, totalitarian group on either side of the spectrum cannot violate the basic rights of the common citizen.

Governments which try to shut down free speech of opponents like the current one, or try to gradually remove the right to bear arms need to be watched closely.
This government is no different than the Nixon group that also questioned dissent.

Hopefully the public will elect a New Majority Party that will take us to a better, more free society.

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

Full story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...67c_print.html

“Eventually, the web of murder and torture that became the infamous Operation Condor reached across the globe, wreaking revenge on Allende partisans who had managed to flee. Gen. Carlos Prats, a critic of Pinochet, was bombed to kingdom come along with his wife as he started a car in Buenos Aires; Allende’s ambassador Orlando Letelier was blown up with his American assistant on the streets of Washington.”

Thainlandnotes, can I ask what motivated you to post this? I appreciate it, of course and expect I'll buy the book, but I'm sorta lost on the context.

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

It's a pretty straight review of what seems to be a pretty straight history of project Fubelt and Operation Condor. I'm quite familiar with these events and so checked out the preview on Amazon and it's no ideological tract, although the [phrase I'm not supposed to use] likely won't admit the distinction. I went ahead and bought it, so thanks Thai-notes!

In any case, all governments routinely violate their constitutions if doing so serves the needs of governing elites.

"The illegal we can do right now; the unconstitutional will take a little longer."

-- Henry Kissinger

That's how these elites understand their place in the world. This is Eduardo Matte, patriarch of an elite Chilean banking family and a founder of modern Chile:

"...the sole owners of Chile are ourselves, the owners of capital and of the soil; the rest are the masses who can be influenced and sold...they do not matter either as opinion or prestige."

Matte said that in the late 1800s and first families like the Mattes and Montts still rule Chile today. The Matte's fortune alone is said to exceed $3 billion USD. Here, nothing has changed, neither the players nor their view of the world. I agree that we have to evolve politically where a small, totalitarian group on either side of the spectrum cannot violate the basic rights of the common citizen, but as the quotes above show, it's not happening. How come?

"The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves....I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people."

-- Henry Kissinger

Well, when such periods of political evolution do occur and common citizens successfully unite to advance their interests through democratic and lawful means, national elites aligned with transnational corporate interests get nervous. They inevitably turn to the muscle of the United States and have consistently employed violent, extra-legal means to restore the status quo.

"It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup.... We are to continue to generate maximum pressure toward this end utilizing every appropriate resource. It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG and American hands be well hidden."

-- Cable to Henry Hecksher, CIA Station Chief Santiago, 10/16/70

So who exactly needs to evolve here, I'm not entirely certain.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Allende

Thainlandnotes, can I ask what motivated you to post this? I appreciate it, of course and expect I'll buy the book, but I'm sorta lost on the context.

I lived for several years in the Dominican Republic, knew Dominicans who had watched LBJ invade and whose parents had plotted against Trujillo. I’m rooting for Latin America big time. I rode some rails through Central America and saw what the American Fruit Company didn’t own…nothing. All foreign policy is economic. That’s hard to believe inside America especially when war breaks out regularly to check fascism, communism, terrorism.

On the flip side, if you are a citizen of a poor country and educated enough to realize a superpower has ultimate veto power over everything political within your nation, you’ve got some decisions to make.

I rarely read the comments after Washington Post articles, but this time I did. It was a mistake. Did Allende destroy the economy? Did Milton Friedman save Chile?

Shake you head and wonder.

Then go back to reading.

[vt]

Re: Allende

Crony capitalism destroys economies, as does socialism, and communism.

One can make a case that smaller, homogeneous economies like the Scandinavian ones can succeed with a bit of socialism; larger diverse economies cannot.

The best economy for growth of living standards is an entrepreneurial free market economy with reasonable regulation and a free, unfettered press to call out problems. Governments need to be supportive, but not favor projects based on contributions. FIRE vs. TECI is proof that we still haven't got it right.

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

Fine assertions, but the thread is about [phrase I'm not supposed to use] terror in Chile during the Pinochet years.

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

[QUOTE=Thailandnotes;271991]...I rarely read the comments after Washington Post articles, but this time I did. It was a mistake..../QUOTE]

Hmm. Can't seem to get the comments to display. T-notes, if you can bear it and have the time would you mind sharing some of the comments you found noteworthy? Just for my curiosity's sake, is all.

[vt]

Re: Allende

Woodsman, good point. What leads to terror is the reaction of governments not doing what superpowers want in their sphere of influence, and terror is wrong for any reason.

I posit that terror is now taking a different, more subtle direction. The NSA is now reviewing every post, email, phone call, and whatever communication ordinary citizens have. This happened under Bush and continues at an even higher level under Obama. It is of course for "our protection" from terrorists.

The great danger is that governments have gotten too large and will try to control more facets of our lives. Freedom and the constitution are being subverted.
Citizens will need to take a stand.

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

...Citizens will need to take a stand.

What you mean "we" Ke-mo sah-bee?

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Allende

maybe this will work...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...tml?ctab=all_&

[Woodsman]

Re: Allende

maybe this will work...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...tml?ctab=all_&

Perfect, thanks!

I haven't gone through much more than a dozen and it's pretty depressing. The majority opinion is generally divided among three assertions:

1. It didn't happen"

"...there isn’t much evidence of American involvement in the coup"
"The fact that Nixon didn't support him doesn't show that the US is culpable. The fact that the US was aware of impending coup before it happened doesn't show that the US participated or encouraged it."

2. It happened, but was really a good thing:

"It was Pinochet who restored democracy in Chile... "
"After traveling to Chile on business for the past 30 years, I can tell you that the coup was not constitutionally accepted, but it rendered a realistic and prosperous country, a societal model for the rest of the region. "

3. It happened and we should do it here:

"The entire Potomac could use a Pinochet-esque scrubbing."

Just slightly terrifying. Wonder how long it will be before our "man on a white horse" shows up?