Inequality much worse than most think

[lakedaemonian]

Re: money vs happiness

A lot of peoples happiness hinges on how many new products/clothes they can buy.

I am convinced a majority of people lack a thirst for knowledge. Thats what makes me happy, simply learning new facts/ideas.

The intellect thirsts only to satiate its fascination.

To me it's like oxygen, water, and food.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: money vs happiness

One of more prominent quotes around our house is that it isn't having money that's the issue, it's the lack of money. My sister-in-law -- who makes a good living -- is always stressed out and unhappy because despite multiple interventions and "rescues" on our part she is incapable of living within her means. She quite easily *could* but there's that purse she *has* to have, special gifts for the kids, etc. And then at the end of the month she's asking us for a loan to tide her over "until her next paycheck" [BTW she *never* pays us back -- we're "rich" [better off than her] and thus don't need the money]

Thus, we live well below our means, no debts -- and our stress levels are very low and I guess you could say we're "happy".

And for anyone's curiosity -- my wife's twin sister. Thus a very close bond and kind of hard to refuse when the hammer really comes down. Sigh.

I hear ya……I'm in a similar situation.

Our family leads a fairly spartan existence compared to our neighbours as well as our income level peers living well under our means…to the point that even financial conservatives close to our family continuously joke about why we don't spend any of our money.

We try to focus on long-term "bang for the buck" quality over quantity with our consumer purchases. And we're not afraid of purchasing second hand in many cases.

My sister and BIL both make a VERY good living and their overt spending is simply off the charts.

They have never asked us for money, but they had a very scary episode 6 months ago when my BIL was at risk of being downsized. The fear passed, and they rewarded themselves enormously.

Both my sister and BIL seem to think we are border line poor based on our spending habits.

[newnewthing]

Re: money vs happiness

A lot of peoples happiness hinges on how many new products/clothes they can buy.

I am convinced a majority of people lack a thirst for knowledge. Thats what makes me happy, simply learning new facts/ideas.

The intellect thirsts only to satiate its fascination.

Me too! What a wonderful time to live in.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: money vs happiness

One of more prominent quotes around our house is that it isn't having money that's the issue, it's the lack of money. My sister-in-law -- who makes a good living -- is always stressed out and unhappy because despite multiple interventions and "rescues" on our part she is incapable of living within her means. She quite easily *could* but there's that purse she *has* to have, special gifts for the kids, etc. And then at the end of the month she's asking us for a loan to tide her over "until her next paycheck" [BTW she *never* pays us back -- we're "rich" [better off than her] and thus don't need the money]

Thus, we live well below our means, no debts -- and our stress levels are very low and I guess you could say we're "happy".

And for anyone's curiosity -- my wife's twin sister. Thus a very close bond and kind of hard to refuse when the hammer really comes down. Sigh.

A lot of peoples happiness hinges on how many new products/clothes they can buy.

I am convinced a majority of people lack a thirst for knowledge. Thats what makes me happy, simply learning new facts/ideas.

The intellect thirsts only to satiate its fascination.

[newnewthing]

Re: $8k not enough?

Thirty odd years ago, one applied for the job, knowing you could do it, and if your resume was slim for their taste, all you needed to do was offer to work a week for free to prove your proficiency. It showed your real interest in the job, and made a big point out of experience not being proficiency, as most bosses are aware that 1 years experience twenty times over does not mean any growth within that experience.

It works well with small, quickly growing companies...you just need to check with people before hand to check if the owners/manager is the honest type...I'm sure that these days there are more than a few people who would take you up on the week, and then say your weren't up to the job.

In general, if they thought you had potential, they would hire you anyway on 90 days probation at a slightly reduced rate, going to the full rate at the end of the probation...particularly if you mentioned that in the negotiations at your interview.

Getting the interview without eMailing requires a bit of persistence as well, and is sometimes worth taking the person who runs the place out to lunch, just to catch his attention.

When you want a job...a specific job...the effort put into getting it is yet another recommendation to a future employer.

This is truly an advantage small companies have and is a major reason small companies can sometimes beat the pants off much larger ones. Small companies simply care more about whether a prospective employee will directly help their bottom line. They don't hire credentials, they hire people that can do the work. It's also far easier for managers to assess the value of an employee. It's is typically quite obvious how much each individual contributes to the company's health. Not so for almost everyone in large businesses.

And it's a good thing small companies have this advantage. Anyone that wants to make a difference and can should seek work in a small company that needs their expertise. Worked for me.

[jpatter666]

Re: money vs happiness

Hum, sounds bogus to me, all these "happiness" studies. Sounds like an excuse for the rich to get richer because I mean everybody making at least 80k (or whatever amount they assign) a year are "happy."

Money can buy the happiness most people seek especially if they don't thirst for ever more.

One of more prominent quotes around our house is that it isn't having money that's the issue, it's the lack of money. My sister-in-law -- who makes a good living -- is always stressed out and unhappy because despite multiple interventions and "rescues" on our part she is incapable of living within her means. She quite easily *could* but there's that purse she *has* to have, special gifts for the kids, etc. And then at the end of the month she's asking us for a loan to tide her over "until her next paycheck" [BTW she *never* pays us back -- we're "rich" [better off than her] and thus don't need the money]

Thus, we live well below our means, no debts -- and our stress levels are very low and I guess you could say we're "happy".

And for anyone's curiosity -- my wife's twin sister. Thus a very close bond and kind of hard to refuse when the hammer really comes down. Sigh.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: money vs happiness

Psychologists have found very consistently that money has almost no relation to happiness, except at the margin of physical poverty. Above that, it doesn't help much.

I am still trying to absorb that reality.

See the research of Edward Diener at the university of Illinois, if you don't believe me.

He's the "jedi master" of happiness studies.


I'd like to get Diener and Aristotle in the same room together. I wonder if they would find anything to argue about. . .

Hum, sounds bogus to me, all these "happiness" studies. Sounds like an excuse for the rich to get richer because I mean everybody making at least 80k (or whatever amount they assign) a year are "happy."

Money can buy the happiness most people seek especially if they don't thirst for ever more.

[gwynedd1]

Re: money vs happiness

Psychologists have found very consistently that money has almost no relation to happiness, except at the margin of physical poverty. Above that, it doesn't help much.

I am still trying to absorb that reality.

See the research of Edward Diener at the university of Illinois, if you don't believe me.

He's the "jedi master" of happiness studies.


I'd like to get Diener and Aristotle in the same room together. I wonder if they would find anything to argue about. . .

Until they do a study of those that purchase their freedom with it.

[Southernguy]

Re: money vs happiness

A friend of me says: "money does not make me happy, but how it does calm my nerves!!"
I subscribe...

[Polish_Silver]

money vs happiness

Amen!

I can't help but notice that everyone I know that has a LOT of money seem perpetually unhappy...

Psychologists have found very consistently that money has almost no relation to happiness, except at the margin of physical poverty. Above that, it doesn't help much.

I am still trying to absorb that reality.

See the research of Edward Diener at the university of Illinois, if you don't believe me.

He's the "jedi master" of happiness studies.


I'd like to get Diener and Aristotle in the same room together. I wonder if they would find anything to argue about. . .

[Forrest]

Re: $8k not enough?

Here's the thing, though. How many professions are like that? A programmer can show up to a job with ample evidence of his skill by demonstrating projects he has done. I don't know of any places that lets me wire up electrical systems or install conduit as a demonstration of proficiency. It is all based upon 'experience,' which is really just time on the job and not actual experience. It would be swell if I could do that because I know a hell of a lot more than most people with a similar amount of time in the craft, but I cannot demonstrate it.

Thirty odd years ago, one applied for the job, knowing you could do it, and if your resume was slim for their taste, all you needed to do was offer to work a week for free to prove your proficiency. It showed your real interest in the job, and made a big point out of experience not being proficiency, as most bosses are aware that 1 years experience twenty times over does not mean any growth within that experience.

It works well with small, quickly growing companies...you just need to check with people before hand to check if the owners/manager is the honest type...I'm sure that these days there are more than a few people who would take you up on the week, and then say your weren't up to the job.

In general, if they thought you had potential, they would hire you anyway on 90 days probation at a slightly reduced rate, going to the full rate at the end of the probation...particularly if you mentioned that in the negotiations at your interview.

Getting the interview without eMailing requires a bit of persistence as well, and is sometimes worth taking the person who runs the place out to lunch, just to catch his attention.

When you want a job...a specific job...the effort put into getting it is yet another recommendation to a future employer.

[Polish_Silver]

Free will vs determinism

No, in fact we are all beneficiaries of this think called existence: yes, we come in and we go out and the cirumstances of our entry and early days are surely not of our own choosing, but Existence is better than Non-Existence. And yes, we do have choices; it's called free will, and even though external pressures, genetics and environmental development may reduce our effective freedom of volition, everyone who has ever lived any duration of a mature life and reflelcted on same would confirm the existence of consience and the difficulties involved in the free choicees made in their own lives (even though some of them will read the latest pop philosophy and psychology and parrot back in their own minds "their is no free will").

If one is not grateful for the gift of existence and considers oneself a victim, one is free to relieve oneself of the burden at any time.

Free will and determinism are highly compatible, as pointed out in Hobart's classic essay.

This is called "compatibilism" in philosophic circles.


That we have free will is a matter of common experience. That we are deterministic is also
fairly obvious upon reflection. The genes do not "force us" to do things. The genes (and other factors) ARE us.

[wayiwalk]

Re: $8k not enough?

A professional engineer in the US is also increasingly burdened by a blooming credentials racket; it looks like a broad and growing trend among most licensed or certified trades.
We must spend increasing amounts time and money taking mostly worthless training classes (continuing education) just to keep working at our jobs.
It's extortion, really.

...and the likely future need to have a masters to get the PE in the first place (this has been on the table with the nationwide PE org for a while, presently I think it is on hold).

I remember when they first added the pdh requirement, the argument being made was that doctors and lawyers had such requirements, and it would be good for the profession. All I could think was, yeah, doctors go to conferences and get training, but what engineers can afford such trips? Only the top 5%. For the rest, not so easy.

It is an accurate characterization - at first the pdh's were very hard to get. In NY, the law seemed to be written to favor academia and state employees, who were either exempted or had the ability to get pdh's via teaching classes ("new" classes, however, still an easier effort that sitting and getting training). Then, many organizations qualified to give the training, including vendors, so that they could provide training on the subject area of the product, and it became possible to get pdhs during lunchtime seminars.

It is still a hassle though, the extra paperwork.

In the first place, getting the PE came along with the maturity and experience to KNOW when something was outside of your area of expertise, and one would take care to only perform work in areas that one was capable in. The pdh's, they are just one more thing to take care of in our "free" time.

[jk]

Re: $8k not enough?

A professional engineer in the US is also increasingly burdened by a blooming credentials racket; it looks like a broad and growing trend among most licensed or certified trades.
We must spend increasing amounts time and money taking mostly worthless training classes (continuing education) just to keep working at our jobs.
It's extortion, really.

it's just credentials inflation, like grade inflation in schools and colleges. just as now you need a [devalued] college diploma to get a job that used to held by a high school graduate, so your professional degree and certification/licensure is devalued by the need to re-establish, again and again, that you are worthy of it.

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: $8k not enough?

With regard to medicine, licensure is only the first hurdle. One must also pass their boards and now, retake their boards every 10 years to maintain board certification for their medical specialty(s). Coming up soon will be the requirement for continuous certification. This is a rolling three year training requirement that must be kept current to maintain board certification. So while a physician can practice without being board certified, they can't work in a hospital or bill Medicare / Medicaid and it's getting more difficult to bill insurance companies without maintaining certification. In the past many less rigorous physicians would use the qualification, "board eligible", but the period where one is board eligible is becoming quite small in most specialties. By the end of this decade, practicing medicine in the US without maintaining board certification will be challenging if not impossible in a metropolitan area.

A professional engineer in the US is also increasingly burdened by a blooming credentials racket; it looks like a broad and growing trend among most licensed or certified trades.
We must spend increasing amounts time and money taking mostly worthless training classes (continuing education) just to keep working at our jobs.
It's extortion, really.