Inequality much worse than most think

[jiimbergin]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

My point was not that Klein is not left, or not left enough, or whatever. My point was he's lazy.

Sorry to derail the thread.

I thought he did,

It remains to be seen whether another fundamental flaw in the design can be corrected before it leads to a calamity as great as the American Civil War: the concentration of power and wealth without an equal concentration of personal accountability.

The founders tried to foresee every threat to freedom but they could not possibly foresee the FIRE Economy.

[Woodsman]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

It remains to be seen whether another fundamental flaw in the design can be corrected before it leads to a calamity as great as the American Civil War...

EJ, sometimes you toss off these little asides that send a cold chill down my spine.

[Woodsman]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Oh, I get it. Klein, Maddow, O'Donnell, and Matthews are secret conservatives and Hedges, who was reprimanded by the New York Times, and resigned, is the right shade of lefty.

Boy am I happy I don't have to read holier than thou battles on the radical right or left.

"Klein writes for and edits Wonkblog at the Washington Post. It now features five writers in addition to Klein. He frequently provides political commentary on MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, Hardball with Chris Matthews, and The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. He is a former contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann. On March 14, 2013, The Week magazine reported that Klein was among those being considered to host MSNBC's yet-unnamed 8 p.m. weekdayprime-time show that would replace The Ed Show.^[8] Ultimately, the time slot was filled with All In with Chris Hayes."

Not sure what you mean by "right shade of lefty," but if by it you mean "correct" or "proper" I would say that you've stumbled across an important truth and distinction. Hedges is a self-identified socialist. Maddow, Olbermann, et all are the controlled opposition and offer no fundamental critique of the system as does Hedges. They are centrist reformists. Hedges is the "right shade" and the rest are careerists.

I will buy you a copy of "Death of the Liberal Class" and send it to you on my own dime, vt. You've swallowed the propaganda uncritically because it aligns so well with your prejudices (we all have them, yes). Hedges' book is part of the cure. It won't turn you into a socialist, I promise.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

It remains to be seen whether another fundamental flaw in the design can be corrected

Can you elaborate briefly on what that flaw in design was?

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

My point was not that Klein is not left, or not left enough, or whatever. My point was he's lazy.

Sorry to derail the thread.

[vt]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Oh, I get it. Klein, Maddow, O'Donnell, and Matthews are secret conservatives and Hedges, who was reprimanded by the New York Times, and resigned, is the right shade of lefty.

Boy am I happy I don't have to read holier than thou battles on the radical right or left.

"Klein writes for and edits Wonkblog at the Washington Post. It now features five writers in addition to Klein. He frequently provides political commentary on MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, Hardball with Chris Matthews, and The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. He is a former contributor to Countdown with Keith Olbermann. On March 14, 2013, The Week magazine reported that Klein was among those being considered to host MSNBC's yet-unnamed 8 p.m. weekdayprime-time show that would replace The Ed Show.^[8] Ultimately, the time slot was filled with All In with Chris Hayes."

[EJ]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Feels a long way away from the four freedoms. First we have to make sure we know what freedoms are.

America's original sin was making people into property.

Seems to me we're way back at confusing people with property again.

First we made people into property.

Now we've made property into people.

In the universe where property is people, things operate differently.

Freedom of speech has become Citizen's United. Freedom of religion has become Hobby Lobby. Freedom from fear is criminal immunity for banks. And Freedom from want is TARP and the Discount Window.

When you confuse people with property, you confuse freedom with slavery by necessity.

Maybe it's all just a question of whether we will have another abolition movement.

Slavery was the almost fatal flaw in great experiment that is the United States of America.

It took the American Civil War, which almost destroyed the nation, to reverse this great economic and governance mistake and the Civil Rights movement to begin to correct the moral and social damage.

It remains to be seen whether another fundamental flaw in the design can be corrected before it leads to a calamity as great as the American Civil War: the concentration of power and wealth without an equal concentration of personal accountability.

The founders tried to foresee every threat to freedom but they could not possibly foresee the FIRE Economy.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Feels a long way away from the four freedoms. First we have to make sure we know what freedoms are.

America's original sin was making people into property.

Seems to me we're way back at confusing people with property again.

First we made people into property.

Now we've made property into people.

In the universe where property is people, things operate differently.

Freedom of speech has become Citizen's United. Freedom of religion has become Hobby Lobby. Freedom from fear is criminal immunity for banks. And Freedom from want is TARP and the Discount Window.

When you confuse people with property, you confuse freedom with slavery by necessity.

Maybe it's all just a question of whether we will have another abolition movement.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Erza Klein has nothing to do with Wall Street; in fact he's the complete opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein MSNBC contributor, etc.

They don't get more to the left than that.

have to disagree. klein's been skewered by yves smith and chris hedges for years.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/...alth-care.html

[vt]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Erza Klein has nothing to do with Wall Street; in fact he's the complete opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Klein MSNBC contributor, etc.

They don't get more to the left than that.

[Thailandnotes]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

Give me a break, Ezra, you corporate, Wall Street shill.

"The economy seems mostly back to normal -- but joblessness is still endemic."

How do you spell oxymoron?

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

Yogi Berra

[vt]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...e-of-our-time/

[Woodsman]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

[QUOTE=ProdigyofZen;272248]What are all those people going to do?

Now that is a very serious question. We've created the population problem with technology and we'll try to solve it with more technology. I'm not hopeful. When there is too much of any resource, only the most productive portions of that resource are required. There are of course many different ways to measure the value of a human being but staying with the economic argument, inequality seems easy to understand.

This might be better added to the automation thread but, using Adam Smith's division of labor, pin factory example, we see how many people it took to efficiently create a pin. One to pull the wire, one to straighten it, one to cut it, one to point it, one to grind the top, more to make and apply the head, more people to package, etc. etc. We've now specialized every one of those folks out of a job and require a single machine. And when he wrote this, there were nearly 10X fewer people than there are today. I don't see how this ends well for most.

What did someone say yesterday about poverty? "I don't see it."

We won't see this, either. Merry fargin' Christmas.

[santafe2]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

[QUOTE=ProdigyofZen;272248]What are all those people going to do?[QUOTE]

Now that is a very serious question. We've created the population problem with technology and we'll try to solve it with more technology. I'm not hopeful. When there is too much of any resource, only the most productive portions of that resource are required. There are of course many different ways to measure the value of a human being but staying with the economic argument, inequality seems easy to understand.

This might be better added to the automation thread but, using Adam Smith's division of labor, pin factory example, we see how many people it took to efficiently create a pin. One to pull the wire, one to straighten it, one to cut it, one to point it, one to grind the top, more to make and apply the head, more people to package, etc. etc. We've now specialized every one of those folks out of a job and require a single machine. And when he wrote this, there were nearly 10X fewer people than there are today. I don't see how this ends well for most.

[ProdigyofZen]

Re: Inequality much worse than most think

We've been sending food at least since 1946 when UNICEF was founded. Result, Africa fuel with this free food has has a population bloom from 180 million in '46 to over a billion and climbing to 2 billion in another 35 years.

The road to hell is paved...

What are all those people going to do? I can imagine the wars to be waged over "scare resources"