Bank Of England Today

[Mega]

Buy What?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...dam-Posen.html

Bad debts?...........
Mike

[*T*]

Re: Bank Of England Today

Buying good debts would presumably have no effect so I guess so.

[Mega]

Re: Bank Of England Today

This might worry you "T"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9327...time-high.html

Have you got that grant cash yet.....?
Mike

[*T*]

Re: Bank Of England Today

Though I'm in the public sector, we have a separate pension scheme (USS) which is supposedly fully funded. Though no doubt they'll find a way to steal it.

As for grants, I've lots of applications going in this year. But, the research council is changing its model next year, only really to fund stuff in specific areas. Basic research is going to die.

RIP our reputation in science.

[unlucky]

Re: Bank Of England Today

Buying good debts would presumably have no effect so I guess so.

I'm thinking they should buy gold. Lots of gold. That would have the effect of devaluing currency versus gold and ultimately generating inflation, which is what they want. At the same time it staves off the risk of hyperinflationary collapse because it adds to the pile of gold in the BOEs vaults - putting a floor under the value of sterling.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Bank Of England Today

*T*, when you say "our" is that the US or the UK?

As for the pension problem, this all relates to the long term development of the underlying private sector economy; where to enable the development of government "Owned" businesses, they changed the rules of the pension funds; from one where the majority of the pension income stemmed from dividends, (as a share of profit created), paid by publicly traded but private businesses on the London Stock exchange, (for the UK); to one where the majority of the pension fund holdings were mandated to be held in Gilts, effectively, government borrowings. Ostensibly to reduce risk, sic!!

The wheel has turned full circle and the chickens have come home to roost and the pension funds have now become what is called "The Shadow Banking system" and they now no longer invest in equity.

[*T*]

Re: Bank Of England Today

The UK.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Bank Of England Today

The UK.

Then you will be interested to know that I believe that the solution is to return to the original idea; that such long term investment never stemmed from government, but from the wealthy; particularly those already very prosperous from their own industrial success. That we must all turn away from government for such long term funding for new research. In my case, I am working towards funding a gravity and energy research institute from a combination of charitable giving and industrial profit stemming from the research.

Government is the problem; not the solution.

[*T*]

Re: Bank Of England Today

Then you will be interested to know that I believe that the solution is to return to the original idea; that such long term investment never stemmed from government, but from the wealthy; particularly those already very prosperous from their own industrial success. That we must all turn away from government for such long term funding for new research. In my case, I am working towards funding a gravity and energy research institute from a combination of charitable giving and industrial profit stemming from the research.

Government is the problem; not the solution.

While I agree with you on funding new investment from capital formation rather than debt, I think public goods like roads, schools and scientific research are best funded by tax. The only alternatives are patronage or industrial funding. I suspect our society has regressed morally enough that patronage will no longer work. Industrial funding happens already, but for short- term projects with short- term payoff (ie a few years), ie not fundamental research. The desire of patrons (whoever they may be, individuals, govt or corporate) to guide research is what inhibits scientific revolution, so there will always be this dichotomy, of the range I think that at the moment govt is still the least interested in the outcome, so funds the best research.

On government, I don't think the solution to bad government is less or more government. It is better government.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Bank Of England Today

While I agree with you on funding new investment from capital formation rather than debt, I think public goods like roads, schools and scientific research are best funded by tax. The only alternatives are patronage or industrial funding. I suspect our society has regressed morally enough that patronage will no longer work. Industrial funding happens already, but for short- term projects with short- term payoff (ie a few years), ie not fundamental research. The desire of patrons (whoever they may be, individuals, govt or corporate) to guide research is what inhibits scientific revolution, so there will always be this dichotomy, of the range I think that at the moment govt is still the least interested in the outcome, so funds the best research.

On government, I don't think the solution to bad government is less or more government. It is better government.

The first point is that there is no available tax; long ago it was superseded by the use of borrowing. We are so over borrowed it beggars belief and in which case, your point about the desire of patrons to both guide and thus inhibit research becomes front and central. Do you have ANY idea of how much new thinking has been suppressed by the present "patron"? Those of us outside of the government patronised system; with proposals that deflect from their "friends" proposals cannot get so much as a foot through the door, let along any funding. A lifetime of experience with government has left me with absolutely NO confidence in their independence and thus I am determined to find a way forward without their corrosive influence.

IMHO there is not the slightest chance that we will ever see better government; they have every reason to remain behind a barrier of secrecy that will always prevent a proper discussion of where they go wrong and thus they will remain completely impervious to change.

My aiming point, while creating great difficulties for me; will, when I succeed, leave me and those that I do know want to join me; free to do our own research entirely dependent upon our own intellectual capacity. Certainly without the cold hand of an organisation dedicated to its own self aggrandisement.

Long term research must never be trammelled by a faceless committee of the supposedly great and the good.

Last, but not least, a substantial quantum of your own research never gets funded; so imagine how little outside of the present system is. I can tell you, none of it.

There has to be a better way forward. Yes; I admire your earnest hope for a change of attitude in "government"; but I am long past hope. Like many out here, I have entirely lost any hope of change within "government". As I see it they absolutely refuse to accept the desperate need for change.

Ergo; the only way forward is to find another way over the mountain and I am determined to seek it out and use it.

[*T*]

Re: Bank Of England Today

The first point is that there is no available tax; long ago it was superseded by the use of borrowing. We are so over borrowed it beggars belief and in which case, your point about the desire of patrons to both guide and thus inhibit research becomes front and central. Do you have ANY idea of how much new thinking has been suppressed by the present "patron"?

Well of course you are right that any patron trying to guide research will choke off new and interesting ideas. Historically the safety mechanism has been the relative security of an academic position, whereby you can do at least some research on whatever you want in your own time, as it were, unfunded. Before that science was mostly restricted to the rich nobility. Certainly many breakthroughs have been made by people goofing off from what they were 'supposed' to be doing. The reason I returned to a relatively conventional academic path was that it gave me the most freedom to goof off and do what I felt would be important for the next few hundred years rather than responding to external pressures. It's not ideal but it has afforded a little bit of such opportunity.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Bank Of England Today

*T*, In a very real sense, you bring us right to the hub of the problem; in an academic environment, you are already funded to some extent and can, by taking small decisions related to your own expenditures, make a case for a variety of small moves forward with your own thoughts.

My own viewpoint has always been from outside academia. Even when I held a Common Room pass for the university of Southampton back in the 1980's, I still had to carry all my own costs entirely. It was that experience that has led me to propose a simple set of rules for that initial investment into any new thinking. That if we have a formal structure of rules applicable to anyone; then we do not need to get involved with any other form of oversight until past that first stage, when the initial idea has been tried out for better or worse.

The Japanese have been doing that for many decades with wonderful results. We need to learn new ways of funding that initial spark of an idea where the same difficulties are faced whether one is in academia or outside in the cold world of the private individual inventor.