Fukushima's real threat?

[cbr]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

is there anyplace to go to get ANY kind of idea what the real impacts are? other than visiting Chernobyl and Fukushima with a geiger counter yourself?

so far the only real disaster that appears to be legitimate is the effect of the tsunami itself, and the lack of power output from the plant since!

you hear 'end of humanity' or 'end of japan' or 'end of tokyo' all the time, but right now it looks like we are really talking about 'end of about 1 square mile of fukushima'

of course, i understand that super concentrated radiation is not good, but there is nothing at Fukushima that was not already spread around the earth before its mining and concentration there.

there are destroyed nuclear reactors at chernobyl, several subs at the bottom of the sea, there have been thousands of nuclear detonations and those places, at ground zero, are not suitable for living in close proximity for long periods of time without health effects, but that is about it.

why is Fukushima so different?



hell, I seem to recall our Manhattan project boys were handling Pu crudely, at times with their bare hands for a while: some had acute burns from it. Yet there appears to have been no health effect.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3980212

[seanm123]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Google "Demon Core" and then Google Hanaford site, there have been volumes written about the Manhattan project and the cold war and it's waste. You will find we will be cleaning up after the Manhattan project and the cold war for a few more generations. Hanaford is a 560 square mile site and every few years they find some pretty nasty stuff buried not far from the surface.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

"A 37-year follow-up of the Plutonium workers at the Manhatten Project" (reference the post by cbr above)

And the bottom-line after 37 years: a.) no higher rate of cancer or mortality in workers who physically handled Plutonium; b.) apparently, the human body repairs cell damage done by radiation; c.) radiation from radioactive elements including radiation from the exotic trans-unaniumic elements on the periodic table (#93 through #106) is, and always has been, everywhere in the environment of planet Earth, in trace amounts; e.) there is no scientific case with any merit against the atomic energy industry, except to develop atomic energy only for peaceful and productive uses that benefit all mankind.

Some productive uses for atomic energy: a.) electric power generation; b.) radio-isotopes for tracing in pipelines, wells, tubes, tunnels, blood vessels, human organs, mines, agriculture, medicine and industry; c.) discovering new trans-uraniumic elements on the periodic table; d.) killing cancer cells and destroying tumours; e.) atomic clocks; f.) luminous dials; g.) space exploration and rocket propulsion; h.) imagery, especially in medical care, to replace X-ray; i.) killing pathogens, especially in food processing; j.) telecommunications; k.) microwave ovens; l.) micro-surgery, especially in brain surgery.

[cbr]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Google "Demon Core" and then Google Hanaford site, there have been volumes written about the Manhattan project and the cold war and it's waste. You will find we will be cleaning up after the Manhattan project and the cold war for a few more generations. Hanaford is a 560 square mile site and every few years they find some pretty nasty stuff buried not far from the surface.

Interesting link but demon core proves my point. So a dude in jeans with a bomb sized plutonium grapefruit sitting on a card table, forcing it to go supercritical by hovering neutron reflective materials (berylium, which is one of the most chemically toxic materials around) with his thumb and a screwdriver screws up and gets a warm blue light bath died? And the rest of the guys around the card table die 20 -30 years later? That clearly identifies nuclear power to be unbelieveably safe! Strike a match to the equivalent stored energy in gasoline and see how many guys in the room survive!

[cbr]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Ok, hanford. 8 early experimental wartime reactors have been onsite for 70 years. 300 billion gallons of contaminated water and 25 million cubic feet of solid reactor material were dumped basically into open ground.

120000 people live there doing a routine government cleanup.

Ok, not great. But not a big deal either considering that site is essentially about 4 current day fukushimas rolled into One, right in the middle of washington st and i've never heard of it.


Looks to me like a similar scale problem as the miami copper mine aqwrf site in az that i am intimately familiar with.

[Shakespear]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

http://inmotion.magnumphotos.com/essay/chernobyl

[LargoWinch]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

If anyone believes the lies and rubbish about cancers and mutations coming from radiation at either the Chernobyl or Fukishima site, please show me all of the deaths, tumors, mutations and a few one-eyed monsters that have been born there, too. Show me the evidence, not the spin from the environmental movement to-day.

It is funny how, in trying to make a point, one links a serious issue such as Cancer with one-eyed monsters.

Posts such as these unfortunately undermine an otherwise great thread.

[cityqat]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

please show me all of the deaths, tumors, mutations and a few one-eyed monsters that have been born there, too. Show me the evidence, not the spin from the environmental movement to-day.

Via simplification, you are arguing a point that 'radiation does not cause cancer, tumors, mutations, etc.' I will have you know that ME (your daughter), having taken chemotherapy for a year, has been warned by my neurologist that I am "NOT out of the clear for Leukoencephalopathy - aka Brain CANCER - due to the treatments and exposure to radiation as a side effect of the Mitoxantrone treatments that I took." You don't have to be a part of a disaster to know the effects of radiation.

"Show (you) the evidence"? I am the evidence!

[LargoWinch]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Via simplification, you are arguing a point that 'radiation does not cause cancer, tumors, mutations, etc.' I will have you know that ME (your daughter), having taken chemotherapy for a year, has been warned by my neurologist that I am "NOT out of the clear for Leukoencephalopathy - aka Brain CANCER - due to the treatments and exposure to radiation as a side effect of the Mitoxantrone treatments that I took." You don't have to be a part of a disaster to know the effects of radiation.

"Show (you) the evidence"? I am the evidence!

Hmmm, cityqat, are you really Starving Steve's daughter?

If so, this post is beyond cool!

[cityqat]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Hmmm, cityqat, are you really Starving Steve's daughter?

If so, this post is beyond cool!

Yep - that's me. I am Starving Steve's daughter.

Thanks for the compliment!

[c1ue]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

"NOT out of the clear for Leukoencephalopathy - aka Brain CANCER - due to the treatments and exposure to radiation as a side effect of the Mitoxantrone treatments that I took."

Out of curiosity, what was the actual radiation exposure from, and at what levels?

Neither Chemotherapy nor Mitoxandrone generally employ radioactive substances, as far as my very limited understanding goes.

I'd guess you underwent a large number of X-rays in the course of diagnosis and monitoring, but beyond that were there other radiation exposures?

[cityqat]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Out of curiosity, what was the actual radiation exposure from, and at what levels?

Neither Chemotherapy nor Mitoxandrone generally employ radioactive substances, as far as my very limited understanding goes.

I'd guess you underwent a large number of X-rays in the course of diagnosis and monitoring, but beyond that were there other radiation exposures?

I was given the "maximum allowable amount of this chemo drug for a lifetime." The people that administered it to me were fully covered in safety gear (masks, boots and head gear included) and had to leave the room after setting my IV. I was not allowed to be around people for 1 week due to the radiation that I was giving off post-treatment. The drug came in a tub marked with warning symbols galore for radiation exposure.

To be ready for this treatment, they had to measure the activity in my brain and heart. For these tests, I was injected with a drug that came straight from TRIUMF (the nearby nuclear physics laboratory - http://www.triumf.ca/). This, too, was radioactive and sat in my veins and blood for weeks.

If that wasn't enough, you're right, I had *many* xrays. I am sure those were far beyond the 'healthy' limit. I had MRI's, Angiograms, brain scans, PET scans among umpteen other tests. I have never heard of many of them, and they warned me that I was a 'guinea pig' for some of them, as no other treatment was available.

[shiny!]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

I was given the "maximum allowable amount of this chemo drug for a lifetime." The people that administered it to me were fully covered in safety gear (masks, boots and head gear included) and had to leave the room after setting my IV. I was not allowed to be around people for 1 week due to the radiation that I was giving off post-treatment. The drug came in a tub marked with warning symbols galore for radiation exposure.

To be ready for this treatment, they had to measure the activity in my brain and heart. For these tests, I was injected with a drug that came straight from TRIUMF (the nearby nuclear physics laboratory - http://www.triumf.ca/). This, too, was radioactive and sat in my veins and blood for weeks.

If that wasn't enough, you're right, I had *many* xrays. I am sure those were far beyond the 'healthy' limit. I had MRI's, Angiograms, brain scans, PET scans among umpteen other tests. I have never heard of many of them, and they warned me that I was a 'guinea pig' for some of them, as no other treatment was available.

Oh cityqat, I am so sorry. Your presence here is most welcome. I pray that you achieve radiant good health and a long, happy life.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

I was given the "maximum allowable amount of this chemo drug for a lifetime." The people that administered it to me were fully covered in safety gear (masks, boots and head gear included) and had to leave the room after setting my IV. I was not allowed to be around people for 1 week due to the radiation that I was giving off post-treatment. The drug came in a tub marked with warning symbols galore for radiation exposure.

To be ready for this treatment, they had to measure the activity in my brain and heart. For these tests, I was injected with a drug that came straight from TRIUMF (the nearby nuclear physics laboratory - http://www.triumf.ca/). This, too, was radioactive and sat in my veins and blood for weeks.

If that wasn't enough, you're right, I had *many* xrays. I am sure those were far beyond the 'healthy' limit. I had MRI's, Angiograms, brain scans, PET scans among umpteen other tests. I have never heard of many of them, and they warned me that I was a 'guinea pig' for some of them, as no other treatment was available.

Hi Cityqat:

I hope you don't have cancer. This is the first that I have heard of it.

I hope you aren't using our academic-quack in Victoria, the one who sees a new patient every 5 mins and writes them a new serious prescription every 24 hours, without end. He loves doing it, perhaps because he gets paid a prescription-writing fee, every time he writes a new prescription. Who knows?

I will show your comments to my bro who is an MD. He has contacts with neurologists who are real MDs. Let me hear what they have to say, because I am not qualified to comment about what you have written.

A very good surgeon in Victoria is Dr. Reid. He will tell you what he thinks. He is very easy to work with.

Stay out of that neurology ward at Victoria General Hospital. I heard from CBC News that the ward is going to be closed next year. I think the Province is making a good decision with the taxpayer's money.

As I said, I saw that old lady receive her Last Rites in there. She was known as, "The help lady" but sadly, no-one came to help her.

I will let you know what my bro says.

Love, Dad

[LargoWinch]

Re: Fukushima's real threat?

Neither Chemotherapy nor Mitoxandrone generally employ radioactive substances, as far as my very limited understanding goes.

c1ue, given even my near-existent knowledge on chemotherapy, I can tell you that you are oh so totally wrong. Your posts are usually much better informed.