Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

[c1ue]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

Here's why:

1. By with holding taxes, you keeping your assets safe from a group of people who are not representing you, and who are quite happy to screw you by making you debt slaves.
2. Tax withholding is faster than voting (depends on a country's elective and tax cycles).
3. Tax withholding doesn't require a majority to be effective.
4. Tax withholding cannot be watered down by compromise, as with election.
5. Tax withholding brings awareness to the issue, which is wealth and power disparity, helping to educate the public.
6. Tax withholding is easier to do than elective campaigning.
7. Tax withholding a good strategy when TPTB have dominated the media and subverted the election process.
8. Tax withholding is easier than protesting by sleeping outside in a park.
9. Tax withholding is not subject to vote tampering.
10. Tax withholding is on target because of its simplicity, unlike elections, where there a myriad of other issues that cloud the process (like what consenting adults do in private, abortion, gun rights, etc.)

Tax withholding is also illegal, as in you go to jail.

Whereas political reform is, so far as I understand it in a democracy, not illegal.

Your points above also didn't respond to my point that tax withholding destroys the beneficial duties government performs along with everything else: regulation, law enforcement, roads, utilities, employment, health care, etc etc.

They are not too big too fail . . . so consider all the ramifications that go with that . . . .

So your point is that even though credit unions are not any better at either protecting or at making use of depositor money, that the fact that they can fail means something?

Just because you have a choice, doesn't mean it is a better one.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

Here's why:

1. By with holding taxes, you keeping your assets safe from a group of people who are not representing you, and who are quite happy to screw you by making you debt slaves.
2. Tax withholding is faster than voting (depends on a country's elective and tax cycles).
3. Tax withholding doesn't require a majority to be effective.
4. Tax withholding cannot be watered down by compromise, as with election.
5. Tax withholding brings awareness to the issue, which is wealth and power disparity, helping to educate the public.
6. Tax withholding is easier to do than elective campaigning.
7. Tax withholding a good strategy when TPTB have dominated the media and subverted the election process.
8. Tax withholding is easier than protesting by sleeping outside in a park.
9. Tax withholding is not subject to vote tampering.
10. Tax withholding is on target because of its simplicity, unlike elections, where there a myriad of other issues that cloud the process (like what consenting adults do in private, abortion, gun rights, etc.)

You are only looking at the financial issue. You neglect the psychological, emotional and political effects.

They are not too big too fail . . . so consider all the ramifications that go with that . . . .

raja,

What does that do? They will create bond issues for the exact amount of your withholding. Political reform is the only way. However I fear it will be one of those so called "hard money systems" that were so friendly to feudalism.

[raja]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

Tax withholding is also illegal, as in you go to jail.
Whereas political reform is, so far as I understand it in a democracy, not illegal.

Civil disobedience.

Your points above also didn't respond to my point that tax withholding destroys the beneficial duties government performs along with everything else: regulation, law enforcement, roads, utilities, employment, health care, etc etc.

It's not meant to be long-term.

So your point is that even though credit unions are not any better at either protecting or at making use of depositor money, that the fact that they can fail means something?

Getting rid of moral hazard is crucial to a stable, fair system.

[raja]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

raja,

What does that do? They will create bond issues for the exact amount of your withholding. Political reform is the only way. However I fear it will be one of those so called "hard money systems" that were so friendly to feudalism.

It goes beyond the financial aspects.
If you only look at the financial issue, you neglect the more powerful psychological, emotional and political effects.

[astonas]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

It goes beyond the financial aspects.
If you only look at the financial issue, you neglect the more powerful psychological, emotional and political effects.

In order for there to BE psychological, emotional, and political effects, the government target has to NOTICE and CARE. Failing to pay taxes will get you in trouble, but won't active either of these conditions.

1) They won't notice that you did it for ideological reasons (greed will be attributed as the sole motivation). Frankly, I think most reasonable onlookers would probably agree with them on this one.

2) They won't care about your political statement even if they do believe that it was your motivation. You will have compromised your message through your delivery.

So no, it really won't have any impact.

[gwynedd1]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

In order for there to BE psychological, emotional, and political effects, the government target has to NOTICE and CARE. Failing to pay taxes will get you in trouble, but won't active either of these conditions.

1) They won't notice that you did it for ideological reasons (greed will be attributed as the sole motivation). Frankly, I think most reasonable onlookers would probably agree with them on this one.

2) They won't care about your political statement even if they do believe that it was your motivation. You will have compromised your message through your delivery.

So no, it really won't have any impact.

Agreed, it is beneficial to keep your money hence a moral hazard that it may not be a righteous protest. If he doesn't stop defending this idea, I will be forced to eat lobster.

[raja]

Re: Odious Debt - Michael Hudson

In order for there to BE psychological, emotional, and political effects, the government target has to NOTICE and CARE. Failing to pay taxes will get you in trouble, but won't active either of these conditions.

1) They won't notice that you did it for ideological reasons (greed will be attributed as the sole motivation). Frankly, I think most reasonable onlookers would probably agree with them on this one.

2) They won't care about your political statement even if they do believe that it was your motivation. You will have compromised your message through your delivery.

So no, it really won't have any impact.

The thread is about Iceland . . . .

I could easily see half the population withholding their taxes . . . and the government would notice.

In the US, that couldn't happen . . . yet.