Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

[bart]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Sure, but what is the ratio?

None of the revolutions of 1848 succeeded for any length of time, for example.

The American revolution succeeded primarily due to England's preoccupation with France - having fought more or less continuously since 1718 - and furthermore by the rise of Napoleon keeping the Empire preoccupied.

Really more of a case of mice will play while the cat's away.

The single instance of a major power undergoing a revolution would be the French Revolution, and they got a nice dictator named Napoleon out of it - who then launched the series of wars which pretty much exhausted Europe for a generation (unlike the many decades before the French Revolution).

I'm not going to debate it, but will note that what came after Napoleon wasn't worse than him or the earlier revolution or Locke etc. - by far. And I'll also note that there were very few that thought the Berlin Wall would come down as soon as it did.

If some or many think we're completely doomed and no 'revolution' will succeed in the next few years or decades, so be it.

[don]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Sure, but what is the ratio?

None of the revolutions of 1848 succeeded for any length of time, for example.

The American revolution succeeded primarily due to England's preoccupation with France - having fought more or less continuously since 1718 - and furthermore by the rise of Napoleon keeping the Empire preoccupied.

Really more of a case of mice will play while the cat's away.

The single instance of a major power undergoing a revolution would be the French Revolution, and they got a nice dictator named Napoleon out of it - who then launched the series of wars which pretty much exhausted Europe for a generation (unlike the many decades before the French Revolution).

History is not a precisely engineered event. Two steps forward, one step back, succinctly captures its ebb and flow. The French Revolution blew apart the Ancien Régime. The ideals of the revolution were spread across Europe on the bayonets of the Grande Armée. (A case in point - when Napoleon invaded Russian, the Tzar and his ministers enacted a scorched earth policy, in part to maintain a cordon sanitaire between their near-slavery serfs and the French Freedom of Man ideals.) Was Napoleon a despot - absolutely. Did he attempt to re-create his own French aristocracy? Without a doubt. Did it last, or for that matter did the return of the Ancien Regime. No, the rising bourgeoisie was irrepressible.

History is messy. Hopefully we won't find ourselves in a mess, though that sounds wistful. (and please excuse the use of the French terminology - they are rather good at that)

[don]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

a short Hudson . . .

[c1ue]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Many "revolutions" have not been taken over and have succeeded quite well - think 1776 amongst others... and yes, I'm a contrary tinfoil hat enabled geezer.

Sure, but what is the ratio?

None of the revolutions of 1848 succeeded for any length of time, for example.

The American revolution succeeded primarily due to England's preoccupation with France - having fought more or less continuously since 1718 - and furthermore by the rise of Napoleon keeping the Empire preoccupied.

Really more of a case of mice will play while the cat's away.

The single instance of a major power undergoing a revolution would be the French Revolution, and they got a nice dictator named Napoleon out of it - who then launched the series of wars which pretty much exhausted Europe for a generation (unlike the many decades before the French Revolution).

[cjppjc]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

I think it's very important that OWS does not allow violence to be associated with it. So much I want to say about that. But I'm not good at it.

[bart]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

What is the outcome that you foresee, and why do you have confidence in that end?

As far as OWS itself specifically and on the intermediate or longer term, I have substantial doubts.

If I actually had an expected future time line or specific forecasts, I wouldn't post them publicly since "PTB" types could then counteract at least portions of it... and they're nowhere near as smart or as in control as they think they are.

Many "revolutions" have not been taken over and have succeeded quite well - think 1776 amongst others... and yes, I'm a contrary tinfoil hat enabled geezer.


But the real answer is that the pendulum always swings the other way eventually.

[don]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

get taken over by outside elements

Hmmm. Like the Libyan rebels?

Or people of their own society that I assume you disagree with?

Trying to figure that one out.

[c1ue]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

I actually think the OWS strategy is a good one in terms of achieving useful political velocity.

The reality is that group dynamics work far differently with people in actual proximity than groups of people gathered over distance but united by ideology.

The question is really if OWS will be able to maintain leadership such that when critical mass is achieved, the 'Wall Street' part will actually comprise a major part of the platform.

All through history we've seen revolutions get taken over by outside elements: San Yat Sen and the warlords, Guevara and Castro, Lenin, Garibaldi, Napoleon following the Committee of Public Safety, and so forth.

[don]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Bank Executives On 15th Floor Gambling On Which Occupy Wall Street Protester Will Be Arrested Next

November 7, 2011


Executives place bets on the guy with dreadlocks and his girlfriend.

NEW YORK—Peering down from their 15th-floor boardroom onto the Occupy Wall Street encampment in Lower Manhattan's Zuccotti Park, executives at the financial services firm Wittinger Group reportedly placed bets Monday on which protester would be arrested next.

According to sources, the bankers had gathered around the large picture window in a mahogany-paneled conference room after an exhausting morning of foreclosing on more than 9,000 homes.

"Five-thousand bucks says it's V For Vendetta Guy," bank vice chairman Malcolm Grant said in reference to a protester wearing the stylized Guy Fawkes mask popularized by the 2006 film. "Look at him. He's just asking for the cuffs with that thing on his face. Come on, who's in? That stupid fuck's not gonna last out there long."




According to one executive, "blue hoodie guy is a sure thing."

"Georgie, take your thumb out of your dick and put some cash down," continued Grant, addressing global strategies officer George Malkin. "Pick out one of those little shits and buy me a hot tub."

Witnesses said Malkin, who has earned $21 million in salary and bonuses since the recession began in late 2007, spent several minutes weighing various options for his wager—including a man standing on the sidewalk with a dollar bill taped over his mouth, a woman sitting in a lotus position on a straw mat, and a man playing an African hand percussion instrument in the drum circle at the west end of the park—before finally settling on a woman passing out leaflets.

"She looks more normal than the others, but she's feisty," Malkin said of the clean-cut young woman in a green T-shirt and jeans who had earlier led an impassioned "We are the 99 percent" chant. "You know she's going to open her yap one too many times and get a face full of pepper spray. Yeah, no doubt in my mind. That mouthy bitch is a winner, all right."

"Don't get me wrong—it'd be a shame to see titties like those get hauled off to jail," said Malkin, 43, adding with a chuckle that if the girl really needed a job, he'd be more than happy to give her a shot in several positions. "But if she makes me 5,000 bucks, they can stick her on death row for all I care."

Over the next hour, the bankers, whose employer was kept afloat by having more than $19 billion of its toxic assets purchased by taxpayers as part of the 2008 TARP bailout, not only continued betting amongst themselves but also received calls from executives at Bank of America and J.P. Morgan who said they wanted "in on the action."

While wagers generally revolved around who would be taken into custody next, additional side bets were reportedly made on specific aspects of the arrest, such as the amount of force police officers would apply and whether or not things would turn violent.

"It looked like the cops had my guy—some scrawny hippie with a braided beard—totally under control," dejected chief of compliance Ben Dubner said. "So I thought [risk management officer Tony] Calcagno was an idiot for betting me double-or-nothing they would tase him. Well, next thing you know, he's twitching and flopping on the grass, I'm out 15 grand, and now I'll probably have to miss the Antigua Yacht Regatta."

"It's just not fair," Dubner added.

By 2 p.m., the gambling had ended, with a reported $1.1 million having changed hands, though the executives acknowledged they might have lost track of a stray $10,000 or so. Sources said Grant, who had championed the protester in the Guy Fawkes mask, had won the largest betting pool and taken home $130,000.

"Pay up, motherfuckers!" a jubilant Grant said. "Pay the fuck up!"

Spot on satire, courtesy of the Onion . . .

[jpetr48]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

I complimented my cousin tonight on being accepted to write a column for a newspaper.
She responded with a thank you and let me know it was her blogs that attracted the editor.

She shared the blog posting below which speaks to our grandfather who came from Italy to settle here.
http://joancergol.wordpress.com

Knowing some of the itulip friends, I am sure there will be resonating themes. It gets at the importance of understanding first one's frame of reference.

[reggie]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Patience Luke... the force is with them and the rest of their ilk...

What is the outcome that you foresee, and why do you have confidence in that end?

[reggie]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Another myopic financial genius is the subject of a one-man show by Mike Daisey currently at the Public Theater. It is called “The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs,” and yes, it is about the recently deceased founder of Apple. Mr. Daisey, a longtime fan and user of Mr. Jobs’s products, is fascinated by the intelligence — and pure force of will and tunnel vision — that it took to develop them.

Out of curiosity, Don, do you know if Daisey mentions Xerox Parc in his theater?

[reggie]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

I have to disagree with this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...dnM_story.html


Allowing 'the movement' to be overun by everyone with a pet cause will not help it grow. Quite the opposite, this will turn normal people away that otherwise sympthasize with the economic message.



This fight isn't about freeing Leonard Peltier and it hasn't a thing to do with in the world to do with Mumia-Abu Jamal.


It needs to be about about one thing - Wall Street stranglehold on economic policies.

Are you convinced this is not deliberate? If deliberate, what might be the motive?

[bart]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

Patience Luke... the force is with them and the rest of their ilk...

[Slimprofits]

Re: Occupy Movement: First Fruit - Paradigm Shift

I have to disagree with this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...dnM_story.html

Millennials realize that there aren’t always clear answers to their concerns. They know that the multitude of societal problems needs to be attacked in a multiplicity of ways.
It’s that open-door policy that has let the protests grow so rapidly. By providing a blank slate on which an entire society can project its grievances, OWS has spread across the United States and into almost 100 countries in little more than a month. It is also highly inclusive. In the small confines of of Zuccotti Park, environmentalism, anti-sexism, spirituality and more are represented.

Allowing 'the movement' to be overun by everyone with a pet cause will not help it grow. Quite the opposite, this will turn normal people away that otherwise sympthasize with the economic message.



This fight isn't about freeing Leonard Peltier and it hasn't a thing to do with in the world to do with Mumia-Abu Jamal.


It needs to be about about one thing - Wall Street stranglehold on economic policies.