Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

[c1ue]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...ovince-1-.html

I for one am watching the evolution of the new "Horde" tactics with great interest.

On the other hand, the idea of a machine gun only injuring 11 security force members, 3 others, without killing anyone seems ludicrous.

Saudi Arabia vowed to use “an iron fist” after 11 members of the security forces were attacked and injured during unrest in a Shiite Muslim town in the east, the official Saudi Press Agency said.

The government accused an unidentified foreign country of seeking to undermine the stability of the kingdom as a result of the violence in Awwamiya, in which the assailants, some on motorcycles, used machine guns and Molotov cocktails, the Riyadh-based news service reported late yesterday.

A man and two women were also injured, it said.

Saudi security forces were fired upon from side streets after they halted a small demonstration in Awwamiya, Interior Ministry spokesman Major General Mansour al-Turki said in a phone interview today. “It wasn’t a confrontation between the police and the people,” he said. “I don’t expect this to be repeated. It was an isolated incident.”

Saudi Arabia, the world’s largest oil supplier, escaped the mass protests that toppled the leaders of Egypt and Tunisia this year and spread to Saudi neighbors Yemen and Bahrain. There were rallies earlier in the year in mostly Shiite eastern Saudi Arabia, including Awwamiya and the village of al-Qatif. The Shiite minority is concentrated in the kingdom’s eastern oil- producing hub.

Accuses Iran

Predominantly Sunni Muslim Saudi Arabia has accused Shiite- led Iran of interfering in the affairs of Arab countries in the Persian Gulf, home to three-fifths of the world’s oil reserves. Iran denies the allegation and accuses Sunni rulers in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia of discriminating against Shiites. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries sent troops to Bahrain in March to quell the mainly Shiite unrest.

“Given that this happened in the predominantly Shiite area of Saudi Arabia, in its east, this could be a sign of greater trouble ahead,” Paul Sullivan, a political scientist specializing in Middle East security at Georgetown University in Washington, said yesterday in response to e-mailed questions. “It could easily ratchet up Saudi-Iran tensions.”

King Abdullah announced $130 billion in spending in February and March in response to the spread of unrest in the Middle East. The kingdom’s senior religious scholars responded by issuing a statement calling protests un-Islamic, ahead of a so-called Day of Rage planned for March 11 in Saudi Arabia. Protesters stayed off the streets amid a high security presence.

Credit-Default Swaps

Credit-default swaps on Saudi Arabia rose after the attacks. The swaps, used as a measure of confidence in the country although it has no debt, jumped 7 basis points to 137 yesterday, the highest since March, according to prices at data provider CMA, which is owned by CME Group Inc. and compiles prices quoted by dealers in the privately negotiated market. The contracts were at 137 today.

“Using motorcycles is a new tactic in Saudi Arabia,” said Theodore Karasik, director of research at the Dubai-based Institute for Near East and Gulf Military Analysis. “It is a new way to get around security forces. Oil prices will likely rise because of the nature of the attack and if the violence continues.”

[LorenS]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

On the other hand, the idea of a machine gun only injuring 11 security force members, 3 others, without killing anyone seems ludicrous.

I don't find it terribly surprising, especially if their intent was not to kill, but rather to disrupt their operations or to demoralize them.

Machine gun is a very vague and nearly useless term, and unless they recovered the weapons it's possible they weren't really machine guns at all. Even 5 guys with revolvers can sound like a "machine gun" when they're all shooting together. And the "security" guys have a huge incentive to exaggerate the capabilities of their attackers.

[Morelia]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

I would be interested in how motorcyclists are licensed in Saudi Arabia. I was required to drive in very small circles, and found that to be exceedingly difficult (and hardly a realistic real world scenario, but I eventually passed).

[Morelia]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

Saudi motorcycle license info below. Of note, in the context of this dicussion, is the requirement for a "Good Conduct and Behavior Certificate from an official authority".

http://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/portal/tra...Non-Saudis%29/

Issue Motorcycle Driving License
Requirements to issue Motorcycle Driving License (Saudis – Non-Saudis):

• The applicant's minimum age must be 16 years.
• Fill-in the specified form completely.
• Provide four photos, size (4X6) cm.
• Provide a copy of Civil Affairs ID (Saudis.)
• Provide a copy of Resident Permit (Iqama) and passport (Non-Saudis.)
• Provide a letter from guardian.
• Pay the required fees.
• Provide Good Conduct and Behavior Certificate from an official authority.
• Provide an approved identification letter.
• Provide a file to save documents.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

As LorenS mentioned, it could possibly be a journalistic reporting discrepancy.

From my personal experience: 1 part journalist + 2 parts military + 3 parts operational environment = an often intentionally distasteful recipe.

Also from personal experience, there was an incident with a naughty person with considerable military experience come flying up on a motorbike(small dirt bike) carrying a medium machine gun expend a belt at near point blank range(5-6 meters) into a police station with approx. 10-12 people inside.....IIRC there was 1 dead and 2-4 wounded...but it goes back a long time.

From the walk thru, talk thru afterwards we were amazed everyone wasn't dead.

I also know that in some environments firing of weapons is almost a part of a "dispute process". Often the effort to kill or wound runs a distant 2nd or 3rd behind an active means of settling a grievance.

I have absolutely no idea what happened in this case......

[c1ue]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

I don't find it terribly surprising, especially if their intent was not to kill, but rather to disrupt their operations or to demoralize them.

I'd say if you shoot and hit 14 people with a machine gun, or even an automatic weapon, and no one dies, you're some type of marksman.

If, on the other hand, this was a small caliber automatic weapon, I could believe that.

In any case, I very much doubt a 'Tali-Biker' is all that concerned with having a legal motorcycle license...

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

I'd say if you shoot and hit 14 people with a machine gun, or even an automatic weapon, and no one dies, you're some type of marksman.

If, on the other hand, this was a small caliber automatic weapon, I could believe that.

In any case, I very much doubt a 'Tali-Biker' is all that concerned with having a legal motorcycle license...

You might be surprised to find that the majority of rounds expended by Law Enforcement shootouts in the US are fired at less than 6 meters....and miss.

Without knowing the weapons involved in the contact we can't ascertain the calibre...but in all likelihood it would have been 1 of 4 if the rounds were fired from a rifle or light support weapon/machine gun.....5.56mm/.223 or 7.62mmx51...or possibly Russian 7.62mmx39 or 7.62mmx54 if weapons were infiltrated into Saudi.

While all of the above rounds are capable of killing an adult(particularly the 7.62x51 and 7.62x54)...the smaller, and the more likely 2(5.56 and 7.62x39) would likely see FAR more injured than killed(depending on the level of first-aid and trauma care received within 1 hour) for those who have been shot.

The number 1 killer(by FAR) of casualties who have been shot is mass blood volume loss....that's why there is so much training emphasis on plugging leaks in "the container".

I'd say it's not a marksman attempting to wound as much as it's the natural course of things after a contact where there is a good level of first aid response and trauma care in the following "magic hour".

[c1ue]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

You might be surprised to find that the majority of rounds expended by Law Enforcement shootouts in the US are fired at less than 6 meters....and miss.

I do know about this.

However, when an actual hit occurs, the wound to death ratio in combat is 4 to 1 or so.

This ratio is way low, especially given that I greatly doubt there was a combat medical team standing by.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

I've heard of far stranger anomalies before.....BOTH ways

Can't find ANYTHING on Awwamiya.

If all that oil money paid for a decent expat run Level 1 or 2 trauma care hospital unit within an hour's drive or medical helo lift it could help explain it.

With Saudi being such a closed shop....who knows?

Edited my smiley faces...

[Ghent12]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

I don't find it terribly surprising, especially if their intent was not to kill, but rather to disrupt their operations or to demoralize them.

Machine gun is a very vague and nearly useless term, and unless they recovered the weapons it's possible they weren't really machine guns at all. Even 5 guys with revolvers can sound like a "machine gun" when they're all shooting together. And the "security" guys have a huge incentive to exaggerate the capabilities of their attackers.

This image comes immediately to mind:

[shiny!]

Re: Tali-bikers in Saudi Arabia?

This image comes immediately to mind:

OMG that's brilliant!