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Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

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  • Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...RFD4.DTL&tsp=1

    Washington -- Ending tax breaks for oil, corporate jets and hedge fund managers is nearly every Democrat's favorite way to reduce the federal debt. But one of the biggest tax breaks of all is heavily skewed to wealthy residents of San Francisco, San Jose and California's other upscale coastal cities.

    It's the mortgage interest deduction, and its benefits are heavily concentrated in a handful of pricey cities, none of which votes Republican.

    As the new super committee of Congress sets about finding another $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction by Thanksgiving, tax breaks of all kinds, including the interest deduction, are getting new scrutiny. Beloved by the public and the real estate industry, the deduction will cost the government more than $1 trillion over the next decade.

    But few homeowners, even those claiming the deduction, know how skewed it is by region and by income. For young, affluent San Franciscans, it is tailor-made.

    Just three metro areas - greater New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco - receive more than 75 percent of the subsidy, according to a 2004 study by economists Todd Sinai and Joseph Gyourko. Mortgaged homeowners in the San Francisco and San Jose region receive $4.6 billion a year from a tax break for what are known as McMansions, according to a study this year by John Burns Real Estate Consulting in Irvine.

    The tax break is available to anyone who borrows up to $1 million for a mortgage - including for a vacation home - or takes as much as $100,000 in a home equity loan.

    Bigger deductions


    The bigger the mortgage and the higher one's income, the bigger the deduction. A person in the top tax bracket of 35 percent who borrows $1 million can get a tax break of $17,500. That's on top of a slew of other subsidies such as preferential capital gains taxes on the sale of a primary residence, deduction of local and state property taxes, and subsidies to mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    By comparison, households earning less than $75,000 get less than $200 in savings from the deduction. More than three-fourths of taxpayers do not itemize, and so don't claim the deduction at all. Those who rent or have paid off their mortgages, most of them seniors, get no benefit.

    The chief recipients are younger, well-off households that receive "a big incentive to increase the size of their mortgage or house," said Eric Toder, co-director of the Tax Policy Center, a joint research group of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution. "In areas like San Francisco, where it's not easy to build more housing, it drives up housing prices by a substantial amount."

    Pricey markets favored


    The value of the deduction rises with the cost of a home, suiting pricey real estate markets such as San Francisco and Manhattan, or hot vacation spots such as Aspen, Colo. Altos Research, a real estate research firm, put the median price of a home in San Francisco at $706,000 as of Aug. 24. Trulia.com market research said average listing prices ranged from $4.3 million in Pacific Heights to $640,000 in the South of Market area as of mid-August.

    Californians receive 2 1/2 times as much in mortgage interest deductions as Texans, and have for decades. Residents of the Dakotas, Mississippi and Arkansas regularly receive among the lowest share of benefit. McAllen, Texas, mortgage holders get about $23 million a year from the deduction, but Petaluma and Santa Rosa homeowners get more than $300 million, according to the John Burns Consulting study.

    The deduction is the second-largest federal tax expenditure - a subsidy program that operates through the tax code. The largest is the exclusion of employer-paid health insurance from taxes. Such tax breaks, economists say, are identical to granting a direct subsidy. Tax rates for everyone have to be higher to make up for the revenue loss. Once created, tax expenditures need no congressional review.

    "Among the very large tax expenditures, I think the mortgage interest deduction is one of the worst," Toder said.

    That's because it encourages people to increase debt, distorts the housing market, sucks investment from more productive activities and subsidizes the well off, economists said.

    "All that said, I love mine," conceded Maya MacGuineas, president of the centrist Committee for a Responsible Budget, who has proposed with Harvard economist Martin Feldstein to cap all tax subsidies, including the deduction, at 2 percent of income.

    "An easier way to improve our tax code than going after each individual tax break, which each has its own constituency, is to find a way to kind of wrap them all together and cap them," she said. "So if one guy has three tax breaks, and another guy has 27, those 27 are probably going to end up in total being capped so they don't exceed 2 percent of total income."

    Total tax expenditures now cost nearly $1.3 trillion a year, as much as this year's deficit.

    'Politically challenging'


    "Tax expenditure reform has to grapple with mortgage interest deduction, because it's such a large element tax expenditures," said study co-author Sinai, a professor of real estate and public policy at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. "The big beneficiaries are the Northeast and the West Coast, places with high-income residents and high house values. It's politically challenging to enact a policy that takes that away."

    The deduction has existed since the income tax was established in 1913, but was an accidental creation intended as a general interest deduction for businesses. After World War II, it was justified as a way boost to homeownership and its presumed benefits of encouraging people to take better care of their homes and be better citizens. Economic studies have shown, however, that the deduction actually only encourages people to buy bigger houses.

    San Francisco real estate agent Eric Geleynse with Frank Howard Allen Realtors said in an e-mail that he understands the arguments for ending the deduction, which he concedes is "inherently unfair to renters." But with California home prices down more than half from their 2007 peak, he said that tampering with the deduction now "would be a very big mistake because it would be kicking the entire industry while it is down and struggling to get back up."

    Realtors and builders, whose profits are higher on expensive houses, have fought to preserve the deduction. Former President Ronald Reagan's 1986 tax reform eliminated interest deductions on consumer loans, but Reagan promised the National Association of Realtors, "I want you to know that we will preserve the part of the American dream which the home mortgage interest deduction symbolizes."

    Former President George W. Bush's tax reform commission met stiff Democratic resistance when it tried to limit the deduction, at the time prompting liberal economist Jason Furman, who later served in the Obama administration, to urge progressives to rethink their opposition.

    Several prominent panels that have laid the groundwork for the new deficit reduction committee - including the Bowles/Simpson commission sponsored by President Obama and a plan by former Clinton administration budget chief Alice Rivlin and former New Mexico Republican Sen. Pete Domenici - call for replacing the deduction with a tax credit.

    The deduction is "ingrained in the notion of the American dream," said Dean Stansel, an adjunct fellow with the libertarian Reason Foundation and an economist at Florida Gulf Coast University. "As it turns out, only 25 percent of people take the deduction."


  • #2
    Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

    By comparison, households earning less than $75,000 get less than $200 in savings from the deduction
    Stunning, but not, knowing our political system and the media. To hear the media talk about this deduction (and my family and friends in turn parrot the media), I just assumed it accounted for a much larger amount.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

      And just like these homes, state and local governments have gotten bigger with the help of federal deductions for state and local taxes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

        Scot: Has government growth exceeded population growth in your area?

        Every dollar not taxed is a dollar that FIRE can get their hands on. In the past, our FIRE masters might have been better than government at handling our money. That is no longer the case.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

          Yea the idea that private industry is automagically always better than the government at doing things is a really strange one. Particularly for very large institutions. Private industry fucks up all the time and often when it works well it tends to favor those at the top at the expense of those at the bottom or in the middle, or at least that is the way it is now. It wasn't always that way of course, but that is the reality we have to live with now.

          More/bigger government isn't necessarily the answer. One ran by people interested in doing the job rather than getting rich or getting their egos stroked would be IMO.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

            The mortgage interest deduction is a ridiculous policy that accomplishes two ridiculous things: channels taxpayer money from fed gov to FIRE and acts regressively. However, I've heard even Barney Frank admit that this deduction isn't going anywhere. If the deduction were eliminated, there would be more downward pressure on housing prices. I don't think it will happen with Congress doing every silly thing in the world to prop up housing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

              Originally posted by mesyn191 View Post
              ....More/bigger government isn't necessarily the answer. One ran by people interested in doing the job rather than getting rich or getting their egos stroked would be IMO.
              +1, somewhat surprisingly...

              why methinks termlimits - of some sort - in an effort to elimanate the 'career politicians' and the corruption that goes along with them.

              if they knew their job was of a finite/limited period, they would be more likely to act in the best interests of We The People, vs the K street complex that they have come to 'represent'

              again, i believe that NH's model of how the state govs _should_ work, is the best example.

              take away congress' exhorbitant list of perks and putting them on a stipend with a housing allowance would be a great start.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                Originally posted by babbittd View Post
                Stunning, but not, knowing our political system and the media. To hear the media talk about this deduction (and my family and friends in turn parrot the media), I just assumed it accounted for a much larger amount.

                this is how the FIREmen keep the herd in line: by having them believe carrying a big mortgage is somehow saving them from paying more in taxes: instead of giving it to the .gov, wouldnt you really rather have a bigger house (and give it to the bank instead)

                is it any wonder why the big banks (at least in NY) are run by dems?
                and that they have rigged the game, esp in congress, to keep them (the banks) in power?
                and are you surprised when political hacks like barney frank sez that the house loan interest deduction 'isnt going anywhere' ?

                this post (c1ue's from the sfgate) really is illuminating in this context, dont you think?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                  What is the justification for this number? I find it very hard to believe.
                  It's the Debt, stupid!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                    Originally posted by loweyecue View Post
                    What is the justification for this number? I find it very hard to believe.
                    You get a $300 deduction if your combined interest payments and tax payments for the year are $6,000. If one figures a $100,000 loan at 5%, this is a possible figure in year 1. Of course, the percentage interest on the fixed loan will be higher in the earlier years than in the out years, so the break helps newer loanholders more. This is because you have to beat the standard deduction of $5,700 before the mortgage interest deduction (or any deduction) kicks in. The $200 number seems to me to indicatie, therefore, that the average mortgage loan held by those making less than $75k/yr requires an annual interest payment + taxes of approximately $7k/yr - which seems plausible.

                    One can play with the mortgage interest deduction on this calculator and take a look at amortization's effects of interest and principal splits in annual mortgage payments here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                      I am guessing that most households with 75K do not own a home. On average they only pay $200 bucks. 90% of them rent. 10% of them get a 2K refund. There, you have it... $200 bucks.

                      So, yes, it is yet another regressive tax, or non-progressive tax refund scheme, depending on how you look at it.
                      But, keep in mind that the deduction goes away at higher income levels.

                      I think the deduction should be phased out over 3 years, while at the same time everybody is allowed to refinance into 3% loans (or whatever free money level is appropriate for the time) regardless of equity.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                        Originally posted by aaron View Post
                        I am guessing that most households with 75K do not own a home. ....
                        dunno about that - would think that _most_ homeowning households, once away from the coasts and urban areas, are doing it on 75k or less.

                        even the median price of what? 177k - 150k mortgage = quite swingable on 75grand/year = net of appx 50 = 4k/mo
                        with appx 1000/mo on the mortgage?

                        anybody got a chart?
                        Last edited by lektrode; September 05, 2011, 07:05 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Real Change for the Mortgage Interest Deduction? Or pre-emptive defense strike?

                          Originally posted by loweyeque
                          What is the justification for this number? I find it very hard to believe.

                          If we take the median house price in the United States = $150,000

                          The yearly mortgage interest on said home with a loan of $140,000 in year 1 would be around $8,100

                          Even assuming an income tax rate of say 25%, the maximum possible benefit for this mortgage interest deduction would be $2025

                          However, the standard deduction for a couple is $10,400 (i.e. larger than the mortgage interest).

                          Given this, it isn't hard at all to see why the actual savings is so low for most of the United States.

                          Comment

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