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Behind England's Riots

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  • Behind England's Riots

    The author, Anthony Daniels, who often writes under the pseudonym Theodore Dalrymple, is a retired British prison doctor and psychiatrist.

    The riots in London and elsewhere in England have confirmed what I long knew and have long preached to my disbelieving but totally unobservant countrymen: that young British people are among the most unpleasant and potentially violent young people in the world. It took determination on the part of my countrymen not to notice it.

    Needless to say, any generalization on such a scale needs to be tempered by qualification. Of course it is true that not all young Britons are unattractive in appearance and conduct, only a far higher proportion of them than of the young of any other nation. It requires but an overnight stay on a Friday or Saturday in any British city to prove it. Even Russians are appalled by what they witness.
    The rioting is only the extreme end of the spectrum of bad behavior by British youth and young adults. The characteristics that are common to all classes are arrogance, a sense of entitlement and an unwillingness to moderate their behavior for the convenience of others. The main difference between the classes is that the rich can pay for what they feel entitled to, while the poor have to wheedle, cajole, swindle and steal it. But the inflamed sense of entitlement is the same.

    These riots certainly did not emerge from a cultural vacuum. Many visitors to Britain, including Americans, are surprised and disturbed by how quickly many people in Britain appear to get murderously angry over trifles and direct real and frightening hatred at a person who has offended them in some very slight way. Tempers flare over nothing.

    In England it is difficult now, quite literally, to distinguish the sound of people enjoying themselves from that of someone being murdered. Recently in Manchester (where there has also been rioting), I woke at 1 on a Wednesday morning in my hotel to hear drunken screaming and shouting down below on one of the city's main streets, the sound of which continued until 4:30. Lo and behold, when I left the hotel at 8 in the morning, I discovered that a man had been savagely beaten nearly to death at about 2 a.m. and was still in a coma - but the drunken reveling had continued nonetheless, uninterrupted by the police.

    So the sheer viciousness and destructiveness of the riots certainly do not surprise me. No one who has seen an English football crowd, and the brutal faces it contains, could be under any illusion as to its potential for violence. At the last match I attended, the police kept the supporters of the two teams apart by almost military maneuvers, and after the match thousands of them frogmarched one set of supporters into their awaiting buses. If they had not done so there is no doubt that widespread fighting, looting and destruction would have occurred. And football tickets are now so expensive that it is no longer the game of the poor. Thus poverty does not explain the quick resort to violence, or the obvious taste for vandalism, of the modern British.

    Rest here.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/...ng_people.html
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

  • #2
    Re: Behind England's Riots

    110% agree
    People seems shocked when i say Liverpool is "Detriot-on-sea"

    For me i watched my fellow Limey get lead down a path of eveil.....20 years ago women drank very little if any.....now we have Doctors warning that he has women whom are dyling from drink age 27!.....I watch women whom took great care of themselves turn into Fat,tatoo-ed bitches.........

    The citys are worse, having been carjacked & the police failed to turn up & when i had to get a lift to the Station to give a statment they said "Yes, well.......we see what we can do".

    I pay for this Sh1T, also pay:-
    To House the Bastards
    To pay Dole to the Bastards
    To pay NHS bills because they hurt or killed someone
    To pay their NHS bills
    Their Legal bills

    However, last night there was a small glimmer of HOPE!
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...d-rioters.html

    Mike

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    • #3
      Re: Behind England's Riots

      I think the looters are sick of having no chance of moving up in life and of being abused by the government. Bear in mind the original death that started the riots was a man who was shot and killed the UK police. The police lied and claimed he had shot at them first, but people knew the truth and they rioted. That was the straw that broke the camels back I guess. Yea they get social services which are paid for by everyone (but also being steadily nibbled away at) but they're stuck on the bottom and know it so they don't give a fuck. Once people stop caring you start getting these mass explosions of violence, which in general people aren't willing to do because they know that eventually the government will crack down.

      I don't think this will stop in the UK until either things get better for everyone, not just those at the top...or perhaps the UK truly starts to devolve into a police state. The same goes for the US.

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      • #4
        Re: Behind England's Riots

        Originally posted by mesyn191 View Post
        I think the looters are sick of having no chance of moving up in life and of being abused by the government. Bear in mind the original death that started the riots was a man who was shot and killed the UK police. The police lied and claimed he had shot at them first, but people knew the truth and they rioted. That was the straw that broke the camels back I guess. Yea they get social services which are paid for by everyone (but also being steadily nibbled away at) but they're stuck on the bottom and know it so they don't give a fuck. Once people stop caring you start getting these mass explosions of violence, which in general people aren't willing to do because they know that eventually the government will crack down.

        I don't think this will stop in the UK until either things get better for everyone, not just those at the top...or perhaps the UK truly starts to devolve into a police state. The same goes for the US.
        Simple hooliganism seems more plausible to me.
        Reports have most of the rioters very young, just teenagers. Misbehaving and running wild are exciting and attractive to a teen; so are big crowds of young people. With the probability of being caught and punished low, and the chance to keep some stolen loot high, it becomes a powerfully attractive mixture to teens who would otherwise be mostly within the law.
        Simple hooliganism.

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        • #5
          Re: Behind England's Riots

          Originally posted by mesyn191 View Post
          I think the looters are sick of having no chance of moving up in life and of being abused by the government. Bear in mind the original death that started the riots was a man who was shot and killed the UK police. The police lied and claimed he had shot at them first, but people knew the truth and they rioted. That was the straw that broke the camels back I guess. Yea they get social services which are paid for by everyone (but also being steadily nibbled away at) but they're stuck on the bottom and know it so they don't give a fuck. Once people stop caring you start getting these mass explosions of violence, which in general people aren't willing to do because they know that eventually the government will crack down.

          I don't think this will stop in the UK until either things get better for everyone, not just those at the top...or perhaps the UK truly starts to devolve into a police state. The same goes for the US.
          Sorry, but I think you're simply adding a narrative to try to excuse/explain away unexcusable behavior. For the vast majority of the people involved, it's simple thuggery and pathological behavior. I don't see them as victims.
          Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -Groucho

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Behind England's Riots

            Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
            Sorry, but I think you're simply adding a narrative to try to excuse/explain away unexcusable behavior. For the vast majority of the people involved, it's simple thuggery and pathological behavior. I don't see them as victims.
            Yup, These people have a mentality where the riots are their own vigilante justice, against whatever new oppression is affecting them this week. I am sure they are all honor students as parents and the media will try to narrate it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Behind England's Riots

              Originally posted by chr5648 View Post
              ..These people have a mentality where the riots are their own vigilante justice...
              You give them too much credit. They are running amok for fun and profit.
              A more stern hand by the riot control officers will likely occur (tear gas, batons, mass arrests..), and will likely succeed in convincing them to pursue other hobbies.

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              • #8
                Re: Behind England's Riots

                On a related issue, we've heard much about how England has a huge network of outdoor video cameras.
                Apparently these are wholly ineffective against riots.

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                • #9
                  Re: Behind England's Riots

                  Originally posted by thriftyandboringinohio View Post
                  On a related issue, we've heard much about how England has a huge network of outdoor video cameras.
                  Apparently these are wholly ineffective against riots.
                  Well when you have large groups, the possibility of being seen on camera probably isn't going to dissuade anyone from rioting, but I'm sure some will be identified after the fact.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Behind England's Riots

                    Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                    For the vast majority of the people involved, it's simple thuggery and pathological behavior. I don't see them as victims.
                    Maybe, maybe not. The police randomly shooting someone and lying about it is pretty serious stuff, but I have no clue how common that sort of thing is over in the UK. I thought it was almost unheard of but reading some UK forums and blogs suggests to me the UK police are fairly corrupt, or at least that is what an awful lot of people seem to think. If abuse by corrupt/incompetent police + shitty standard of living + little to no means to improve your standard of living isn't something to riot about I don't know what is.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Behind England's Riots

                      Originally posted by mesyn191 View Post
                      If abuse by corrupt/incompetent police + shitty standard of living + little to no means to improve your standard of living isn't something to riot about I don't know what is.
                      Britain is one of the most unequal societies in the world, whilst simultaneously being one of the most consumerist. These kids don't have a hope in hell of being able to either get into or to afford university (sink schools, huge uni fees have just been introduced), they will never be able to afford a ridiculously overpriced home. Cutbacks have closed everything from youth centres to employment agencies.

                      To date, the decline of the west has been hidden by credit availability. Now the easy loans & mortgage equity withdrawals have gone, people realise how dim their future looks.

                      These kids have just seen politicians steal millions for duck ponds & bankers steal billions for bonuses. Most politicians, and all the bankers, got away scot-free - it has clearly been demonstrated that theft works. I don't see any difference between corrupt politicians, bankers and nicking a pair of trainers (the small minority who hurt people & start fires are different and far more malign than even a banker).

                      In their own way they are as angry as Mega. It's sad that their rage, alienation & hopelessness is expressed far less constructively.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Behind England's Riots

                        Originally posted by Master Shake View Post
                        Sorry, but I think you're simply adding a narrative to try to excuse/explain away unexcusable behavior. For the vast majority of the people involved, it's simple thuggery and pathological behavior. I don't see them as victims.


                        Ah, yes, the ol' "We should not attempt to examine the motives for this behavior, these people are simply EVIL" argument. Worked pretty well in the war on terror, didn't it?

                        I see this as pushing the question back, it doesn't provide any insight into the situation or help us to prevent it happening in the future. Saying that they are thugs engaged in pathological behavior isn't an answer. WHY are they engaging in this behavior? And why does this behavior cluster or originate in certain parts of the city? Why aren't kids in other countries doing it? You have to try hard to find answers that aren't related to economics and inequality.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Behind England's Riots

                          Why can't Britain give them GMO's to make them infertile? Breed them out. If they would be euthanized, people would complain too loudly about genocide, right?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Behind England's Riots

                            Originally posted by Sutter Cane View Post
                            Ah, yes, the ol' "We should not attempt to examine the motives for this behavior, these people are simply EVIL" argument. Worked pretty well in the war on terror, didn't it?

                            I see this as pushing the question back, it doesn't provide any insight into the situation or help us to prevent it happening in the future. Saying that they are thugs engaged in pathological behavior isn't an answer. WHY are they engaging in this behavior? And why does this behavior cluster or originate in certain parts of the city? Why aren't kids in other countries doing it? You have to try hard to find answers that aren't related to economics and inequality.
                            Well said. It seems that some on the forum consider the premise 'these people are rioting because they don't have jobs . . .are victims . . . ' to be mutually exclusive to the premise that 'these people are lazy evil thugs and criminals'. I think that both are true. It seems to me that great huge swaths of humanity are pretty primitive in their thinking and don't self-govern (self as in the individual) very well. This is probably one reason that organized religion has endured, because its provides some framework for self-control and civilized behavior on the part of people that otherwise aren't inclined to either.
                            If one accepts that my two original premises are simultaneously correct, then the next logical step, as a purely practical matter independent of ideology, is to wonder how society can be structured so that the more base tendencies of much of humanity are not provoked. It's pretty clear to me that the current structuring of society has failed in this objective. One can point to many so-called liberal policies as being at fault, as well of course as the hollowing out of the real economy by FIRE.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Behind England's Riots

                              Violence this violence that... I do not see anything in the news about people being hurt. Since when does destroying property constitute violence? That is what insurance is for. Let FIRE pay.

                              I would be cheering them on if they were burning down the banks. They are are not. They are just teens trying to steal money. Teens are stupid. Their brains are under-developed (yeah, it is science). Their parents should be held accountable.

                              This would not happen in the United States. Kids know better (they WILL be shot).

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