London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

[*T*]

It started in Tottenham after a demo about a drug dealer the police shot (fatal shootings about the police are still quite rare here).
Apparently tinderbox was sparked when a slightly overenthusiastic copper hit a woman with a baton.

Disaffected youths started rioting late that night. Tottenham is quite poor. The ethnic mix is black and white; race is not really an issue among the youth here anymore.
The looting spread to Wood Green (where I used to live in my 20's), which is not at all wealthy, but not particularly poor either. The police were caught unprepared.

It's spread to Hackney, Pekham, Islington, Lewisham, Camberwell. Now beyond London to Leeds, Birmingham and Croydon. It's like a laundry list of the poorer neighbourhoods.
Nothing like this has happened since the 80's, but that was violence within communities. This is different.

It's violence against wealth/property, and the police.

It's da yoof v. da feds.

I think these kids have had enough, and think they have nothing to lose.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/20...ird-night-live

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2...olice-response

PS I moved out of London a month ago, after 17 years.

[mooncliff]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

So what are the underlying causes?

Corruption in Scotland Yard and cutting the number of police certainly did not help.

[llanlad2]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

The same as in the Middle East. Massive inequality, no jobs; rent inflation, energy inflation, food inflation all leading to much higher costs of living. As T notes its "disaffected youth" which is different from the 80s when it was race related.
Of course don't expect it to be reported as the above instead it will be "young thugs go robbing."

[mooncliff]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

There was a huge demonstration in Israel last week about inflation.

I suppose we see everyone being fleeced by the financial industry, the economy crashed for years with no prospect of things improving any time soon, Scotland Yard taking bribes from Murdoch, police shooting a Brazilian in cold blood because he looked like an Arab... and then lying about it, and getting away with it... what does one expect?

[Mega]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Give me a rooftop with a good clear view & a Russian "Drangon-off" riffle & i sort this 5-10 mins.......
Mike

[don]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Marx refers to the lumpenproletariat as the "refuse of all classes", including "swindlers, confidence tricksters, brothel-keepers, rag-and-bone merchants, beggars, and other flotsam of society". Quoted from Wikipedia.

"When you got nothin', you got nothin' to lose"

Bob Dylan

Michael Caine, in his voice-over for Harry Brown, says that in his daze in the estates razors, knives and alcohol were the ingredients of hooliganism. Before drugs and guns. The riot scenes at the end of the movie are right out of London Burning ....

[llanlad2]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

The same as in the Middle East. Massive inequality, no jobs, real inflation and higher costs of living. As T notes its "disaffected youth" which is different from the 80s when it was race related.
Of course don't expect it to be reported as the above instead it will be "young thugs go robbing."

[Chris Coles]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Have just finished watching BBC Newsnight. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight (They have not yet upgraded the site so wait til tomorrow). Try this instead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

By all accounts it is getting worse as I write with fires and youths running wild all over the place, not just in London.

None of this should come as a surprise. if you play the economy only for a very small group in a nation, sooner or later the disenfranchised young start to believe that there is nothing for them to look forward to. What have they to look forward to if there is little or no prospect of their being able to emulate what they see every day on screen? Particularly a steady job and the chance of a home and a family.

Again, watch ANY young person today and they live in another world, constantly sending or receiving text messages on their phones and when not, listening to their iPod. In my youth, we had many in our local communities that had made a great success of themselves and were clearly visible in each and EVERY community. Today, our High Streets are all the same and all those "Shopkeepers" have been assimilated into a "Tesco" or a "Boots". Yes some are franchises; but by far the majority can see no clear, well defined future for themselves nor for anyone surrounding them.

We need a comprehensive program of new business creation right down at the grass roots to inspire them to get up and try to make something of themselves. We need to rebuild our communities; create an economy that gives everyone, all every level, the chance to better themselves.

But who wants to listen?

[unlucky]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

There have always been pockets of poverty/dispossession in the UK, haven't there? As in most other countries. So what has triggered this rioting now? It happened before in the '80s but as others mentioned for different reasons.

The witness reports of youths looting for hours on end with no police intervention.. a possible clue? Just what is the state of the UK police?

[*T*]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Also, the criminalisation of youth. Police went on some kind of system where ticketing petty crime paid off rather than giving a talking to like in the old days. Sad to see looting though, my heart is in London. At least so far the violence is not against people, apart from the police. Police hassling youth, violence and racial profiling is all fuel to the fire too.

[bagginz]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Excellent Telegraph article...

[Chris Coles]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

There have always been pockets of poverty/dispossession in the UK, haven't there? As in most other countries. So what has triggered this rioting now? It happened before in the '80s but as others mentioned for different reasons.

The witness reports of youths looting for hours on end with no police intervention.. a possible clue? Just what is the state of the UK police?

My take on police action is this: You will all remember that they recently saw a fellow officer pilloried for pushing a bystander who subsequently died, which action is still to come to trial. (Not withstanding that if you or I did that we would have been immediately arrested and be found in a jail within a month - but it was always thus).

Then, more recently, they were told that there would be substantial cuts to their force numbers due to the need for cuts. Then, add that in past riots in London, officers were stabbed to death; and you see them standing back, waiting. They are making a silent protest that no one, absolutely not any serving politician, will admit is happening.

Watch; when the force numbers cuts are removed, all of a sudden the force will start to act. Really, as simple as that.

[lakedaemonian]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Just what is the state of the UK police?

Anecdotally, I have worked with a good number of Poms coming down to NZ.

Career cops who have shifted down to be Kiwi cops.

Career soldiers who have shifted down to be Kiwi soldiers, sailors, and airmen.

Unscientific poll included the "UK going down the gurgler" as most selected reason #1.

Actual numbers that I have met and discussed the topic, as a fellow carpetbagger, would easily exceed 20.

Great folks with awesome experience and training at the expense of UK taxpayer.

Alas our own local economic challenges means the gate has mostly shut to them moving down here for work in LE/military service.

Biggest influx was probably circa 2004-2008. A few I know have returned to UK, but interestingly it is usually the non-cops/military(Ive met dozens of Pom civvie expats here in NZ) that return to UK.

Just my personal experience.

[Chris Coles]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Also, the criminalisation of youth. Police went on some kind of system where ticketing petty crime paid off rather than giving a talking to like in the old days. Sad to see looting though, my heart is in London. At least so far the violence is not against people, apart from the police. Police hassling youth, violence and racial profiling is all fuel to the fire too.

Right across the world we have vast numbers of the young without jobs, PARTICULARLY; challenging jobs, where they end the day walking home with their heads up with pride from a good challenge met and overcome. I tried to get this across with the first chapter of The Road Ahead from a Grass Roots Perspective:

Adventure and Essential Freedom - The missing elements

of a Rich Cultural Life in a Successful Economy

Our economic system is in collapse and needs revision. Missing from
the debate are words such as; savings, capital, investment, industry, but
most importantly, adventure. It is adventure that is missing today.
Children are brought up to believe in adventure, yet, as soon as they
leave school, instead of adventure, they are faced with work and
responsibility. Looking back at a more successful age, the companies
that built the new industries were pioneers; adventurers. Aircraft,
shipping, and computing are but a few to spring to mind. Then, banking
was not any part of the life of the majority. Money per se was always
secondary to savings and investment, with by far the majority of those
savings invested, at arms length to protect the essential freedoms, as
equity into industry.

Very few people create completely new industry, new adventures. For
the majority, the only chance of adventure was to work for a pioneer.
But by the same token, the majority could claim their own part in the
self same, essentially free adventure. They too became pioneers and
could become as much a part of that adventure as the originators of the
industry. There are particular aspects of such adventure that need to be
recognised. This is not a corporate thing, it is a very human aspect of
the nature of a successful nation, that there must be adventurers who in
turn, create the aiming point for everyone else, they create a shared adventure while remaining, essentially, free. ..............

www.chriscoles.com/page3.html

Did anyone in power today think of the consequences of enslaving the general population with vast sums of debt? Well, these are those consequences and we are all going to have to live with them for many decades, UNLESS, we all change direction and start to rebuild each and every local community with new employment not dominated by debt.

But who will listen?

[llanlad2]

Re: London's Burning (& Birmingham, Leeds, Croydon...)

Right across the world we have vast numbers of the young without jobs, PARTICULARLY; challenging jobs, where they end the day walking home with their heads up with pride from a good challenge met and overcome. I tried to get this across with the first chapter of The Road Ahead from a Grass Roots Perspective:

Adventure and Essential Freedom - The missing elements

of a Rich Cultural Life in a Successful Economy

Our economic system is in collapse and needs revision. Missing from
the debate are words such as; savings, capital, investment, industry, but
most importantly, adventure. It is adventure that is missing today.
Children are brought up to believe in adventure, yet, as soon as they
leave school, instead of adventure, they are faced with work and
responsibility. Looking back at a more successful age, the companies
that built the new industries were pioneers; adventurers. Aircraft,
shipping, and computing are but a few to spring to mind. Then, banking
was not any part of the life of the majority. Money per se was always
secondary to savings and investment, with by far the majority of those
savings invested, at arms length to protect the essential freedoms, as
equity into industry.

Very few people create completely new industry, new adventures. For
the majority, the only chance of adventure was to work for a pioneer.
But by the same token, the majority could claim their own part in the
self same, essentially free adventure. They too became pioneers and
could become as much a part of that adventure as the originators of the
industry. There are particular aspects of such adventure that need to be
recognised. This is not a corporate thing, it is a very human aspect of
the nature of a successful nation, that there must be adventurers who in
turn, create the aiming point for everyone else, they create a shared adventure while remaining, essentially, free. ..............

www.chriscoles.com/page3.html

Did anyone in power today think of the consequences of enslaving the general population with vast sums of debt? Well, these are those consequences and we are all going to have to live with them for many decades, UNLESS, we all change direction and start to rebuild each and every local community with new employment not dominated by debt.

But who will listen?

Good question. But fortunately it is exactly this sort of "meaniningless demonstration" on the streets of London that forces politicians to sit up and listen. It's sad to say but only when threatened with violence do the ruling classes sit up and take notice. Peaceful demonstrations (eg 1 million marching against war in Iraq) are ignored when stacked against powerful lobby groups and vested interests. As I have written previously Europe suffered untold revoloutions in the 19th century because the politically disenfranchised underclass was ignored. Fear of the underclass will cause change once our leaders recognise the underlying causes. I am optimistic that the road to recovery in the UK may be starting here.

There was an interesting piece in the Daily Telegraph today which mentions the sources of the discontent. For those who are unaware the Daily Telegraph is a very conser vative/establishment newspaper which has traditionally helped form political opinion in the UK. So when an influential paper like this has articles like the below I take notice and become more optimistic that things will change.

London riots: the underclass lashes out

London riots: the underclass lashes out
London's rioters are the products of a crumbling nation, and an indifferent political class that has turned its back on them.
A looted store in Tottenham: the community lies in ruins Photo: JOEL GOODMAN/LNP

By Mary Riddell

8:41PM BST 08 Aug 2011

No one seemed surprised. Not the hooded teenagers fleeing home at dawn. Not Ken and Tony, who used to live in Tottenham and had returned to stand vigil over the missiles and torched cars littering an urban war zone. Tony claimed to have seen the whole thing coming. “This was always going to happen,” he said.

The police shot a black guy in suspicious circumstances. Feral kids with no jobs ran amok. To Tony’s mind, this was a riot waiting for an excuse. In the hangover of the violence that spread through London, the uprisings seemed both inevitable and unthinkable. Over a few days in which attacks became a contagion the capital city of an advanced nation has reverted to a Hobbesian dystopia of chaos and brutality.

“In the evening there is fear, and in the morning they are gone. This is the fate of those who take our goods, and the reward of those who violently take our property.” Isaiah 17:14. No such Old Testament fate awaited the pillagers of N18, strolling away from 21st-century megastores with a looted haul of iPod accessories and designer trainers.

This is the most arcane of uprisings and the most modern. Its participants, marshalled by Twitter, are protagonists in a sinister flipside to the Arab Spring. The Tottenham summer, featuring children as young as seven, is an assault not on a regime of tyranny but on the established order of a benign democracy. One question now hangs over London’s battle-torn high streets. How could this ever happen?

Among several obvious answers, one is a failure of policing. The evidence so far points to more ignominy for the rudderless Met, as doubts emerge over whether Mark Duggan, whose death inspired the initial riots, fired at police. The stonewalling of Mr Duggan’s family precipitated the crisis, and the absence of officers to intervene in an orgy of looting led to a breakdown of order suggestive of the lawless badlands of a failing state.



The second alleged culprit is ethnicity. But, as David Lammy, Tottenham’s MP, has said, these are no race riots. The Eighties uprisings at Broadwater Farm, as in Toxteth and Brixton, were products, in part, of a poisonous racism absent in today’s Tottenham, where the Chinese grocery, the Turkish store and the African hairdresser’s sit side by side.

So blame unemployment and the cuts. It is true that Tottenham is among London’s poorest boroughs, with 10,000 people claiming jobseeker’s allowance and 54 applicants chasing every registered job vacancy. In other affected boroughs, such as Hackney, youth clubs are closing. Unwise as such pruning may be, it would be facile to suggest that homes and businesses have been laid waste for want of ping-pong tournaments and skateboard parks.

The real causes are more insidious. It is no coincidence that the worst violence London has seen in many decades takes place against the backdrop of a global economy poised for freefall. The causes of recession set out by J K Galbraith in his book, The Great Crash 1929, were as follows: bad income distribution, a business sector engaged in “corporate larceny”, a weak banking structure and an import/export imbalance.

All those factors are again in play. In the bubble of the 1920s, the top 5 per cent of earners creamed off one-third of personal income. Today, Britain is less equal, in wages, wealth and life chances, than at any time since then. Last year alone, the combined fortunes of the 1,000 richest people in Britain rose by 30 per cent to £333.5 billion.

Europe’s leaders, our own Prime Minister and Chancellor included, were parked on sun-loungers as London burned. Although the epicentre of the immediate economic crisis is the eurozone, successive British governments have colluded in incubating the poverty, the inequality and the inhumanity now exacerbated by financial turmoil.

Britain’s lack of growth is not an economic debating point or a stick with which to beat George Osborne, any more than our deskilled, demotivated, under-educated non-workforce is simply a blot on the national balance sheet. Watch the juvenile wrecking crews on the city streets and weep for all our futures. The “lost generation” is mustering for war.

This is not a cri de coeur for the failed and failing. Nor is it a lament for the impoverished. Mob violence, despicable and inexcusable, must always be condemned. But those terrorising and trashing London are also a symptom of a wider malaise. In uneasy societies, people power – whether offered or stolen – can be toxic. Most of the 53 per cent of e‑democrats calling to have the death penalty reinstated (of whom 8 per cent would opt for firing squad or gas chamber) would never dream of torching a police car, but their impulses hardly cohere either with David Cameron’s utopian ambitions.

What price the Big Society as Tottenham, the most solid of communities, lies in ruins? The notion that small-state Britain can be run along the lines of Ambridge parish council by good-hearted, if under-funded, volunteers has never seemed more doubtful. Nor can Ed Miliband take much credit for his unvaried focus on the “squeezed middle”, rather than on a vote-losing underclass that politicians ignore at their peril, and at ours.

London’s riots are not the Tupperware troubles of Greece or Spain, where the middle classes lash out against their day of reckoning. They are the proof that a section of young Britain – the stabbers, shooters, looters, chancers and their frightened acolytes – has fallen off the cliff-edge of a crumbling nation.

The failure of the markets goes hand in hand with human blight. Meanwhile, the view is gaining ground that social democracy, with its safety nets, its costly education and health care for all, is unsustainable in the bleak times ahead. The reality is that it is the only solution. After the Great Crash, Britain recalibrated, for a time. Income differentials fell, the welfare state was born and skills and growth increased.

That exact model is not replicable, but nor, as Adam Smith recognised, can a well-ordered society ever develop when a sizeable number of its members are miserable and, as a consequence, dangerous. This is not a gospel of determinism, for poverty does not ordain lawlessness. Nor, however, is it sufficient to heap contempt on the rioters as if they are a pariah caste.

One of the most tragic aspects of London’s meltdowns is that we need this ruined generation if Britain is ever to feel prosperous and safe again. If there are no jobs for today’s malcontents and no means to exploit their skills, then the UK is in graver trouble than it thinks. Mr Osborne may congratulate himself on his prudence, but retrenchment also bears a social cost. We are seeing just how steep that price may be.

Financial crashes and human catastrophes are cyclical. Each reoccurrence threatens to be graver than the last. As Galbraith wrote, “memory is far better than the law” in protecting against financial illusion and insanity. In an age of austerity, there are diverse luxuries that Britain can no longer afford. Amnesia stands high on that long list.