In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

[mooncliff]

I think it is the same in Vegas.

Will never go to Orlando again.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...orlando-police

[thriftyandboringinohio]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

To be fair, the issue seems to be feeding people in public spaces like a park.
If the group rents a building and feeds them inside there might be no legal problems at all.

[lektrode]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

To be fair, the issue seems to be feeding people in public spaces like a park.
If the group rents a building and feeds them inside there might be no legal problems at all.

same issue out here in HNL/waikiki in particular: they aggragating in the parks, denies use of the area to the rest of the citizenry = primary objection (by those who find hordes of homeless, including the nutjobs, drugy's/alchy's/stinky's, criminals etc taking over the parks to be a detriment to enjoyment of the parks with their children etc - never mind what (some of) the more vocal tourists are saying = no win sitch for anybody

[dcarrigg]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

To be fair, the issue seems to be feeding people in public spaces like a park.
If the group rents a building and feeds them inside there might be no legal problems at all.

I had a friend from my youth who got involved with food not bombs. The organization is somewhat anarchist by nature. He related to me that they would dumpster-dive and then distribute food to the homeless. I told him that I would voluntarily incorporate an organization as a 501(c)3 for them so that they could collect donations of cash or fresh food, which would become tax write-offs, but he wanted no part of that.

Part of the point was that there was waste at food establishments and they could make it available. Of course, then businesses probably had some legitimate liability concerns, but who knows. It's definitely a group that means well, but it undeniably wants to work outside of the system, which is probably what causes ordinances like this.

I almost guarantee that if they were to work with the city and go above board they would receive support. The goal is noble. But the nature of the organization is such that it will not work with corporations or governments.

[mooncliff]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

Ah, yes, i see. You are right. I guess they could rent a building.

Yes, the homeless cannot take over the parks etc., and if it were just a few it would not matter, but it can get really out of hand.

Still, I have often walked through a park or the train station in Japan late at night and given 25 people sandwiches and fruit and vegetable juice, and I don't see why that should be criminal. No one is going to the parks to give homeless food to attract them to the parks. The homeless are not pigeons or vermin. If the police need to clear the parks, then they should do that. Why should it be illegal for me to give food to people if I want to? After the Kobe earthquake, I bought and gave away food to 300 people. There are regularly stands giving away food to hundreds of people in Ueno park, and it has been like that for 20 years.

I am not arguing that the parks etc need to be kept reasonably clear and that people cannot live permanently on the beach and block reasonable public use. I am asking why I could not walk through a public park and give people food if I want to.

People giving food is not the problem. The problem is there are huge numbers of people who are ill and need to be helped, and they have all been deinstitutionalized and dumped on the street because it is cheaper. That is the real problem.

[mooncliff]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

Oh, that is illuminating.

[lektrode]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

Ah, yes, i see. You are right. I guess they could rent a building.

Yes, the homeless cannot take over the parks etc., and if it were just a few it would not matter, but it can get really out of hand.

Still, I have often walked through a park or the train station in Japan late at night and given 25 people sandwiches and fruit and vegetable juice, and I don't see why that should be criminal. No one is going to the parks to give homeless food to attract them to the parks. The homeless are not pigeons or vermin. If the police need to clear the parks, then they should do that. Why should it be illegal for me to give food to people if I want to? After the Kobe earthquake, I bought and gave away food to 300 people. There are regularly stands giving away food to hundreds of people in Ueno park, and it has been like that for 20 years.

I am not arguing that the parks etc need to be kept reasonably clear and that people cannot live permanently on the beach and block reasonable public use. I am asking why I could not walk through a public park and give people food if I want to.

People giving food is not the problem. The problem is there are huge numbers of people who are ill and need to be helped, and they have all been deinstitutionalized and dumped on the street because it is cheaper. That is the real problem.

cant say i disagree with you, and commend your personal contribution to the cause, but in the case of organized efforts to address the situation/problem, it would appear that merely handing out food, esp in public parks, is leading to more/add'l problems; ie: unintended consequences - which was my point - here's the relevant news from out here:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/2..._homeless.html

personally i think it should be relatively easy/cheap for the cities/states where this is becoming an issue that can no longer be ignored or hidden to simply allocate areas where 'tent cities' with safe/adequate shower/toilet facilities could be made available for those in need of temporary shelter could be accomodated... unfortunately what we seem to get is 'solutions' from the political class that typically involve spending _millions_ that then become lightning rods for controversy.

is all i'm saying - but again, good on you for trying to help

[flintlock]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

I can understand both sides. The city doesn't want to encourage more homeless to the area. Yet people want to help. Whatever happened to the idea of soup kitchens? It was good enough for my Grandfather's time. Probably a lot more efficient, ( and hygienic!) than dumpster diving.

[dcarrigg]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

I can understand both sides. The city doesn't want to encourage more homeless to the area. Yet people want to help. Whatever happened to the idea of soup kitchens? It was good enough for my Grandfather's time. Probably a lot more efficient, ( and hygienic!) than dumpster diving.

That was my thought when I was first told about it 9 years ago. They really do want to make the point that there are millions of edible day-old doughnuts and loaves of bread that get thrown away, though. I do see the point - I just don't see why there isn't a way to get ahold of them before they're ever in the dumpster. To me it was mistrust of government and corps gone too far to make a somewhat valid philosophical point.

If the point is to feed the homeless, there is no need to resort to guerilla tactics. Some are adversarial just for the sake of being so.

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

I don't like laws against helping people eat, but I do enjoy some protection I get thru proper zoning. Surely there are urban parks where homeless gather which are otherwise underused. Meanwhile, was this a sustainable meal program or were homeless people staged for a protest feeding? I ask because it is a very in your face location with an already well-used park that people have a lot of investment in (money & time spent there) and probably doesn't need to be rezoned shelter to make it more useful.

http://www.cityoforlando.net/fpr/Htm...s/lakeeola.htm

Here's some of the housing in the area. I'm pretty sure anyone trying to sell there might have had something to say...
http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...ex=FL529412310

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...ex=FL530982662

The neighborhood just to the south, Cherokee, is one of my favorites. Gorgeous old homes in there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...42.27,,0,-4.24

[BiscayneSunrise]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

There was an identical problem in Fort Lauderdale during the recession of the early 90's with religious groups feeding homeless in public parks. The difference is that the city was placed under a court order to ALLOW the public food distribution. A federal court said that if the city were to restrict the activity it was a violation of the groups freedom to practice their religious belief in a public place. (Funny, though how Christmas decorations aren't allowed in a public park)

The court said that the city could disallow food distribution in public parks but then the city had to provide a different venue, in other words, a soup kitchen. By the time anything was done, the economy picked up, homeless got jobs so the problem went away. Today, the homeless population is at record levels in south florida, concentrated mostly around the beaches and downtown areas.

Again, religious groups are feeding homeless in Ft Lauderdale city parks, this time under protection of a federal court order.

flintlock, you asked why there are no soup kitchens anymore. here is why: The city searched for a private venue to move the crowds away from tourist areas and the central business district but there were several problems.

First, the court order specified that any alternate facility had to be within two miles of where the homeless already congregated. (No sending them out to the Everglades or the distant warehouse district) Two, was the high cost of property. Even, with large numbers of vacancies in the city, it was several million dollars to upgrade any facility to meet various code and ADA/OSHA type requirements. You'd think a vacant, substandard building would be better than being on the street but code enforcement does not allow for common sense. (classic case of well intentioned laws creating an opposite effect) Third, the very few buildings that were possibilities faced fierce NIMBY opposition.

So thanks to federal interference, bureaucrats and NIMBY, the homeless continue to live in city parks.

[shiny!]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

Restaurants don't want to give away their leftovers because they fear a lawsuit if someone became sick from their food.

To the earlier comment that if the organization found a building to feed them in, instead of the park, the city would probably allow it... I think not. I work in the management of mobile home communities, and our tenants can't even have a pancake breakfast for themselves and visitors in their clubhouse without the Health Dept. breathing down their necks, enforcing a gazillion regulations regarding the preparation and handling of food, licenses, etc. The bureaucratic stranglehold that government has over every aspect of our lives is just ridiculous.

[flintlock]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

So thanks to federal interference, bureaucrats and NIMBY, the homeless continue to live in city parks.

Well that is what I assumed the problem would be!

[flintlock]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

Things like this are where the overly litigious nature of our society indirectly adds "friction" to everything we attempt to do. Its the fear of legal action, more than any actual evidence of suits being filed, that inhibits progress. People overreact in a negative manner way out of proportion to the chance of actually being sued.

[housingcrashsurvivor]

Re: In Orlando, feed the homeless, get arrested

There was an identical problem in Fort Lauderdale during the recession of the early 90's with religious groups feeding homeless in public parks. The difference is that the city was placed under a court order to ALLOW the public food distribution. A federal court said that if the city were to restrict the activity it was a violation of the groups freedom to practice their religious belief in a public place. (Funny, though how Christmas decorations aren't allowed in a public park)

The court said that the city could disallow food distribution in public parks but then the city had to provide a different venue, in other words, a soup kitchen. By the time anything was done, the economy picked up, homeless got jobs so the problem went away. Today, the homeless population is at record levels in south florida, concentrated mostly around the beaches and downtown areas. ....

Isn't it that decorations are allowed as long as all the holidays de jour are equally represented?

Regarding homeless. I remember that. They built this nearby on Sunrise, not far from Holiday Park and downtown. http://www.bphi.org/center.shtml . I toured it at the time. It is an excellent facility. Well funded. Very well kept. Created no problems at all (though this is a light industrial area of town). Homelessness isn't a huge problem by the beach where they have Covenant house to help the kids in distress. http://www.covenanthouse.org/ It is most noticeable at the Main Library.