An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

[brent217]

An Eastwood themed look at the history of the financial collapse.
Favorite quote "An unholy amalgamation of demographics, fiat currency, debt, taxes, power and greed have led us to this point. Next we experience collapse, revolution and ultimately, retribution."


http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=14836
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15003
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15246
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15909

I stole the links from zerohedge. What I found interesting was that the author seems to read a lot of the same sites I do, Jessie's, oftwominds, etc.

So the question then is, are more people learning the truth, or is this another EJ case where the internet is isolating the groups of people who have a certain point of view into talking only to each other?

[cjppjc]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

An Eastwood themed look at the history of the financial collapse.
Favorite quote "An unholy amalgamation of demographics, fiat currency, debt, taxes, power and greed have led us to this point. Next we experience collapse, revolution and ultimately, retribution."


http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=14836
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15003
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15246
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=15909

I stole the links from zerohedge. What I found interesting was that the author seems to read a lot of the same sites I do, Jessie's, oftwominds, etc.

So the question then is, are more people learning the truth, or is this another EJ case where the internet is isolating the groups of people who have a certain point of view into talking only to each other?

That's a great question. I suspect a small number of the former are joining the ranks of the latter. J6P is more diverse than we tend to describe him here. Maybe people are learning the truth, and don't know who to talk about it with.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

That's a great question. I suspect a small number of the former are joining the ranks of the latter. J6P is more diverse than we tend to describe him here. Maybe people are learning the truth, and don't know who to talk about it with.

I began reading this first article but then gave up very quickly. What an incredibly silly and misleading approach this guy has. To blame an entire generation--"the Boomers"--for the financial collapse (actually, the looting) is a way of covering up the crimes of a few very powerful figures. Compare this guy's method of analysis with Matt Taibbi's in the article, "The Continual Screwing of Jefferson County, Alabama," posted by Don with the ironic title, "It's Simple. All We Have to Do Is Vote them Out of Office." The irony, of course, is that Jefferson County's own Rep is now head of the House Finance Committee. But--surprise!--he is no longer a critic of J.P Morgan--the chief criminal party and beneficiary in the screwing of Jefferson County. Could it be because JPM is now his largest campaign contributor?

The change of tune of the Jeff County representative lays bare the dynamics of a system where money is power and most people don't have any.

I wonder what the moron at Burning Platform would say about the people of Jefferson County. There are probably many Boomers among them, so they're just getting what they deserve?

Dave Stratman

[cjppjc]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I dont know what to tell you. Greed, avarice, corruption, can be found anywhere. Until as individuals we decide to fight these tendencies things will not change. Only the outer form changes.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I dont know what to tell you. Greed, avarice, corruption, can be found anywhere. Until as individuals we decide to fight these tendencies things will not change. Only the outer form changes.

If it's true that greed, avarice, and corruption can be found anywhere, then it's nonsense to suggest, as the Burning Platform author does, that these things are peculiar to the Boomers.

I think we would agree that the opposite of greed, avarice, and corruption exist too among a great many people. I would venture to say that most people are not greedy, avaricious, or corrupt, and that they look with contempt at these traits, even though they may be guilty of their own petty failings in these areas. One of the reasons that ordinary people can be suckered by Wall Street types (or by used-car or real estate salesmen) is that they themselves would not think of defrauding another person or a whole community the way that bankers delight in, and so they assume that the bankers wouldn't either. Ordinary people's honesty makes them trusting--and vulnerable.

The dynamics of a political/economic system can tend to favor greed or generosity, avarice or altruism, corruption or honesty. Capitalism, where "Greed is good," systematically rewards greed, avarice, and corruption. Qualities that historically have been considered vices for capitalism are virtues. Those that practice these capitalist virtues most ruthlessly are rewarded with wealth and power. They rise to the top of the social order. They direct its institutions: Wall Street banks, the federal government, the universities and churches and synagogues, the unions. There they enshrine its values.

Feudal kings and princes claimed that the social order was the Will of God and therefore eternal. The banksters and corporatocrats claim that capitalism is human nature and cannot be changed.

The kings were wrong and so is Wall Street. Capitalism is not human nature, and greed and corruption are not seen by ordinary human beings as virtues. To see the possibility of change we have to separate the guilty from the innocent, and recognize the systemic dynamics that shield and reward the criminals.

[cjppjc]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I would venture to say that most people are not greedy, avaricious, or corrupt, and that they look with contempt at these traits, even though they may be guilty of their own petty failings in these areas.

I don't know if most people are not greedy or corrupt. Maybe what you are calling petty failings, are petty because of a lack of opportunity. There have been some great posts I've read on iTulip regarding ordinary people being rewarded for inflicting pain on strangers. It's a fascinating subject, I think we spend a little too much time thinking those who are running the game are cheating, and that if I were running the game, it would be on the level. We would like to think so. I'm just not so sure.

[Alvaro Spain]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I don't know if most people are not greedy or corrupt. Maybe what you are calling petty failings, are petty because of a lack of opportunity. There have been some great posts I've read on iTulip regarding ordinary people being rewarded for inflicting pain on strangers. It's a fascinating subject, I think we spend a little too much time thinking those who are running the game are cheating, and that if I were running the game, it would be on the level. We would like to think so. I'm just not so sure.

Those running the game are a reflection of our own inner misery. In my opinion, there is only one way to change the system: to change oneself. If one cannot change himself, how can he expect to change any other human beings?

[dcarrigg]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I began reading this first article but then gave up very quickly. What an incredibly silly and misleading approach this guy has. To blame an entire generation--"the Boomers"--for the financial collapse (actually, the looting) is a way of covering up the crimes of a few very powerful figures. Compare this guy's method of analysis with Matt Taibbi's in the article, "The Continual Screwing of Jefferson County, Alabama," posted by Don with the ironic title, "It's Simple. All We Have to Do Is Vote them Out of Office." The irony, of course, is that Jefferson County's own Rep is now head of the House Finance Committee. But--surprise!--he is no longer a critic of J.P Morgan--the chief criminal party and beneficiary in the screwing of Jefferson County. Could it be because JPM is now his largest campaign contributor?

The change of tune of the Jeff County representative lays bare the dynamics of a system where money is power and most people don't have any.

I wonder what the moron at Burning Platform would say about the people of Jefferson County. There are probably many Boomers among them, so they're just getting what they deserve?

Dave Stratman

It is true that the author was unnecessarily harsh on boomers. But I do wonder, having recently read the book review for Albert Brooks' '2030,' if there will be a generational backlash at the boomer generation. The blog's author certainly seems angry.

I wrote about the generational differences back in 2008. What I saw then was a socio-economic issue: namely that younger folks were structurally introduced to more debt than boomers. The percentage of median net income that is supposed to go to debt service and rent (which I consider to be functionally two sides of the same coin) is probably creeping above 75% for those just getting out of college in the last 5 years. Meanwhile, boomers took out $1.5T in home equity loans in the U.S. in 2005. The youth will never have that "opportunity."

It is not sustainable. But this does not mean that a relationship has to be adversarial. Flinging mud is not a productive way to solve problems. I am glad that things are (generally) kept more civil around here. What the millennials have in common with the WWII generation is the lot of living one's youth in a time of austerity. Youth unemployment is a massive problem worldwide - in the first world as well as the third.



If the employment situation does not improve, keeping 1/5+ of the youth labor force out of the job until they are 30 somethings will probably continue to foster negative feelings towards those who possess the cheap mortgage payments and jobs (i.e. boomers). There will be political implications of this - and they seem to be manifesting as a boon to the democratic party in the U.S.

The blue column is percentage of youth 18-29 voting Democrat, the red column is the percentage of the same voting Republican, and the yellow column is the spread.

Long story short: times are tough and any generation that sees itself doing worse than its parents did at the same age will have some sour grapes.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

Long story short: times are tough and any generation that sees itself doing worse than its parents did at the same age will have some sour grapes.

Divide and rule is probably the oldest and most widely used method of ruling elites. There are any number of ways that people can be divided and set against each other: race, religion, nationality, generation, etc.

It's possible, of course, that some young people will end up blaming the generation ahead of them as the cause of their misery--they are certainly being encouraged to do exactly that--but that would be a wrong-headed approach that would get them nowhere and would only enhance the grip on power of the criminal classes. This is why I reacted so strongly to the Burning Platform series and why I think it is critical for people to analyze the situation correctly.

The uprisings and protests in Egypt and Tunisia, Yemen and Syria, Spain and Greece and Italy, have all been sparked in part by the very high rates of youth unemployment (e.g., 40% in Spain, worse in Tunisia). In those countries, at least, the younger generation seems to be identifying their friends and enemies correctly. They are uniting with working people of the older generation against the criminal classes of bankers and dictators. Young Americans and even Boomers can learn a lot from their example.

[Alvaro Spain]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

The uprisings and protests in Egypt and Tunisia, Yemen and Syria, Spain and Greece and Italy, have all been sparked in part by the very high rates of youth unemployment (e.g., 40% in Spain, worse in Tunisia). In those countries, at least, the younger generation seems to be identifying their friends and enemies correctly. They are uniting with working people of the older generation against the criminal classes of bankers and dictators. Young Americans and even Boomers can learn a lot from their example.

I don't know in other countries. I can attest that in Spain a high percentage of those unemployed youth don't really want to work. To clarify: they have unrealistically high expectations about their first job and salary. As many live with their parents (in Spain it is not rare for sons to live with their parents until they are 30 years old or more) and have no pressing need for money, they believe that they can afford to wait.

It is all common sense. If we had really 40% of unemployed young people that needed a job and 21% of unemployment in our general population (many people in Spain have a job and don't pay any taxes, they are officially unemployed), we would have a revolution, which we are not having.

[Dave Stratman]

Re: An Eastwood inspired look at the history of the financial collapse

I don't know in other countries. I can attest that in Spain a high percentage of those unemployed youth don't really want to work. To clarify: they have unrealistically high expectations about their first job and salary. As many live with their parents (in Spain it is not rare for sons to live with their parents until they are 30 years old or more) and have no pressing need for money, they believe that they can afford to wait.

It is all common sense. If we had really 40% of unemployed young people that needed a job and 21% of unemployment in our general population (many people in Spain have a job and don't pay any taxes, they are officially unemployed), we would have a revolution, which we are not having.

Bloomberg and the Washington Post and others seem to have been taken in by the myth of 40% youth unemployment in Spain--as have, apparently, young people in Spain themselves. I can't understand why these kids are mounting mass protests and describe themselves as "in despair" about finding work if they are actually choosing to live with Mom and Dad rather than having the funds and freedom to strike out on their own. Maybe if you talked to them and let them know that they are deceived about the job situation. Perhaps you might also suggest that they should not expect to work at jobs for which they have trained or an employment level that matches their education. They should just ratchet down their expectations. After all, if young people demand good-paying jobs that utilize their skills, how will Spain save its banks?

Apparently you live in Spain, but you seem to be a singularly uninformed and unsympathetic observer.

Spain's Youth Unemployment Rate Exceeds Egypt, Tunisia[IMG]linkscanner://safe.gif/[/IMG][IMG]linkscanner://vrsn-secured-lsfo.gif/[/IMG]
	2 min - Feb 16, 2011 Feb. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Bloomberg's Nejra Cehic reports on youth unemployment in Spain, where the jobless rate among the young exceeds ... www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/.../2011/02/.../VI2011021600948.ht...