Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

[lektrode]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

Great photo Don. Post it in the visual jukebox thread please. Then this one can go on its way.

uhh... as usual, don has done a great job of focusing our attention on stuff that is truly significant in todays economic matters and stuff that really matters, vs the arcane world of the 'dismal science'

thanks don - i truly appreciate what you dig up = priceless resource.

[lektrode]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

....Heated chairlifts do not inspire me so much as the photos of the bridge that OP put up there.

quite alright man - i dont hold it against you... eye like the bridge shot too ;)

and again, we have more common ground, i think, than perhaps you give me credit for - its just a bit more challenging for me to get it from thot to text....
that and i grew up in The Live Free or Die State, (and 20+ years in the aloha state has given me lots of diff perspective) so my POV tends to lean in the direction of less .gov, less taxation/income-redistribution, less intrusion into what should be the private concern of the individual - you know, that ole yankee frugality/ingenuity and other "old fashioned" stuff.

Hey man - all I'm sayin' is that the system didn't work before Obamacare, ahem, I mean, Bob Dole Care, ahem, I mean 'free $ for insurance companies the law'. It won't work after either. The beauty of bipartisanship in action is that FIRE wins, we loose.

The greatest lie ever told was that FIRE was 'free market.' Jefferson didn't think so - and he wrote to J. Taylor in 1816 to say as much.

FIRE is just as taxing and bureaucratizing as government - only less efficient when government takes the shackles off it and lets it run amok. It's less efficient because even the most corrupt .gov bureaucrat couldn't squirrel away Madoff money (One Madoff = ~300,000 teachers / yr).

You fear big .gov, and rightfully so. But sometimes you need the Leviathan to restrain those who push the bounds of the rule of law too far. Bellum omni contra omnes is the only alternative. Always ask yourself, cui bono? The answer is always simple: look for the fanciest people in the fanciest buildings. The truth will be, as ever, self-evident.

I'm in favor of fewer .gov programs, but more regulatory enforcement. I.E. deploy strategic tax policy rather than complicated bureaucratic programs and beef up the IRS, SEC, and Justice Dept. Let 'em loose, but police 'em good.


I digress. Read Starving Steve's post above - it's pertinent and good. Maybe some ITuliper from abroad will remind some of us 'Mericans to take a little dose of that Ol' Yankee Humility and acknowledge when someone else's idea might have merit.

We now know a priori that we are the best at everything here in the good ol' US of A. In theory we just used to know how to take what works from anywhere, make it our own, and make it better. Now we can't see past our own damned pride and prejudice. But it's nothing new:

and once again Mr Carrigg, i cant say i disagree (with much) of this.

[dcarrigg]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

quite alright man - i dont hold it against you... eye like the bridge shot too ;)

and again, we have more common ground, i think, than perhaps you give me credit for - its just a bit more challenging for me to get it from thot to text....
that and i grew up in The Live Free or Die State, (and 20+ years in the aloha state has given me lots of diff perspective) so my POV tends to lean in the direction of less .gov, less taxation/income-redistribution, less intrusion into what should be the private concern of the individual - you know, that ole yankee frugality/ingenuity and other "old fashioned" stuff.

Ah, that was just late-night rambling. Actually, your posts tend to be pretty well thought out - see your response to goodrich4bk in this thread.

I will endeavor to make a post with numbers in the next day or so - they've gotten too wordy.

[goodrich4bk]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

Lektrode, I couldn't agree more. Basic needs only, a safety net. I belive Oregon's system is something like this. At the beginning of the year, actuaries determine what procedures the state can afford to pay for. If the money is there, people get the service. If not, they don't. If they want to make sure they can get that second by-pass, then they should save or insure.

[GRG55]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

Yes, we can all dream of the wonderful socialist solution to the problem of meeting human needs, can't we? The government provides it for "free" to everyone - problem solved!

Cuz see, the government is so efficient at providing services, so quick and responsive, so innovative. Just take that nasty profit incentive out human society, and what you have left is utopia.

We can only hope that in addition to socialist, er, "single payer", health care, that we can some day look forward to single-payer housing, single-payer retirement, single-payer food production and distribution, single-payer clothing production, single-payer entertainment, and, heck, single-payer employment! Just get rid of that darned profit incentive, centrally-plan everything, and watch the savings roll in!

That you lump health care in the same catagory as buying a sweater shows that you've given the issue about as much thought as deciding whether to take the super size fries at the local burger joint...

[Jay]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

JOIN THE US MEDICAL CORPS TODAY: uncle sam will pay to educate and train you and then you owe US the same number of years it takes to train you to care for your FELLOW AMERICANS.

simple, isnt it?.

The Health Professions Scholarship Program already exists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_...arship_Program

It is one-for-one post residency training. Every year of education paid, you owe Uncle Sam a year in whatever branch forked out the coin. I looked into it initially in the mid 90's, but it made more sense at the time to take out a loan on my own. The final bill was pretty large (which I paid off last year) but it ended up being the right choice for me.

[aaron]

Re: Stillings' Hoover Dam Bridge Photos

Or perhaps we can see what works better when people use government to provide a service that most people need, vs. relying on private enterprise to provide that service for a profit.

For example, which works better, government vaccines funded by taxes or private vaccines funded only by the people who will use them? Using the former, we've eliminated polio and many other diseases that used to maime and kill millions. I don't know any privately funded vaccines that did anything of the sort.

Or take a look at our freeways. No, they're not free. But which carry the most people at the least cost --- publicly built freeways or turnpikes? How about power generators? I grew up in Sacramento with SMUD, a public utility. It's rates were always lower than PG&E and remain so today. It didn't experience brownouts during the Enron-caused energy "emergency" and never filed BK.

Now let's look at healthcare. Our private/public combinations costs us about 16% of our GDP a year. Europe is about 8% on average, some as low as 6%. As for quality of care, the U.S. falls below Europe on almost every single objective measurement. In short, there is no question that on average our healthcare is inferior and costs more.

You can continue to spout ideological objections to all collective efforts, but the above post was pointing out that this issue long ago ceased to be ideologically driven. Rather, the evidence is in and there is no question that most people -- and the country as a whole --- would be better served at lower cost with a single payer. A minority of people --- the rich and those with excellent benefits (often paid for by the majority of taxpayers who do not have such benefits) would no doubt be worse off.

But you know what? I don't give a damn.

Excellent summary. But, let's not forget that Europe is broke too.

A single payer system of healthcare could work. You pick the 100 most common drugs and procedures, the ones that are cheap and effective, and you offer that to everybody. You want more? You buy private health insurance. Things on the "list" are covered and can never, ever be billed to a consumer (yes, even the non-citizens). Yes, it is rationing... but it is fair rationing. Everybody is guaranteed a minimum of health care. You want extra, you pay for it.

At the same time, the providers of these 100 procedures and drugs, if used in good faith, should be protected from most lawsuits.