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More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

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  • More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

    Note this isn't the flagship UC system.

    The CSUs in general are located in poorer, rural areas.

    They don't host research scientists/published authors/Nobel prize winners. They primarily just offer education at an affordable price.

    Or did.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...H563.DTL&tsp=1

    About 10,000 students will be turned away, and an untold number of employees will lose their jobs next fall across California State University's 23 campuses.

    That was the grim news Tuesday out of Long Beach, where CSU trustees discussed how the university that serves more than 400,000 students will shrink amid devastating budget news from the state.

    "We're facing the worst financial situation the CSU has ever had," said Trustee Bill Hauck, chairman of the university system's finance committee.

    "It's very sad," said Chris Chavez, president of the California State Student Association and a senior at Cal State Long Beach."But it comes back to what's being funded through Sacramento."

    Under the current budget picture, which will grow worse for CSU if tax extensions backed by Gov. Jerry Brown aren't placed on the June ballot or are voted down, the state will cut $500 million next year from CSU's more than $2 billion allocation.


    Those cuts could double if the proposed tax extensions stall, CSU Chancellor Charles Reed told the board.

    "A cut of $1 billion in state support would have devastating effects on the CSU," including a long-lasting impact that would damage the state economy, he warned.

    Payroll cuts in store


    For now, he said, a tuition increase of 15.5 percent approved for next fall will allow the university to limit cuts to $400 million.

    Much of that - $250 million - will have to come from reductions in payroll, officials said, noting that CSU has already shed 4,145 faculty members and staff positions through layoffs and attrition since the state's fiscal crisis began in 2008.

    "It's sure to be pretty devastating," said Lillian Taiz, president of the California Faculty Association. "There will be many people out of work, and in this economy, that's a nightmare."

    A savings of $60 million


    The university will save $60 million by preventing 10,000 qualified applicants from enrolling at CSU.


    "Not only will students not get a meaningful college education," Taiz said, "but kids who spent their whole high school career preparing for college will find the door slammed in their faces."
    At San Francisco State University alone, officials say they expect to have to cut nearly $23 million and are looking at more than a dozen approaches.

    "Our campus has been exploring cost-saving options for more than a year now and will implement a series of measures that will allow us to operate within this austere budget," spokeswoman Ellen Griffin said, but provided no specifics.

    Reed said he'll also slash nearly $11 million from the budget of CSU headquarters in Long Beach.

    How CSU pay compares


    Although the budget reductions dominated the conversation Tuesday, the trustees also accepted a report examining how CSU's faculty and campus presidents fare in salary and benefits compared with 20 other public and private universities across the country, from Arizona State in Phoenix to Tufts University in Massachusetts.

    They are paid far less on average than their peers, but their health and pension benefits are far more generous by comparison, according to the report by Mercer Consulting, which also produces compensation reports for the University of California.

    CSU presidents earn less


    The report on CSU found that its 23 presidents would have to earn 52 percent more in salary and cash incentives to reach the average amount paid to presidents at the other universities. CSU presidents earn $292,830 on average, compared with $444,556 at the other schools. Similarly, CSU faculty members would have to earn 17 percent more to reach the average paid to their peers: $85,083, compared with $99,882.

    But the picture changes when looking at health benefits. CSU presidents get 25 percent more in benefits than the average at the comparison universities. CSU faculty also do better, by 21 percent.

    Retirement benefits also favor CSU: Presidents top the average paid to their peers by 34 percent, and faculty take home 31 percent more in retirement than the average at the comparison schools.

    Generosity in health and retirement over salary may benefit employees in high tax brackets, said Adrian Griffin, assistant director of research at the California Postsecondary Education Commission.

    "This raises the question of why other public universities don't do this," Griffin said.

    The fact that they don't, he said, "is surprising."

  • #2
    Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

    Like many Colleges - Colleges and Universities are more focused on over paying their Employees than they are creating sustainable University business that can provide a good education at a reasonable cost.
    I feel for the Presidents of CSU being so under paid - $292,000 is a crime ;-)

    BTW- according to the CSU Payroll records - Presidents Maximum Salary is $350,000 - Not sure why that is left out of the article.

    For detail information on how over paid CSU employees are paid: http://www.calstate.edu/HRAdm/Salary...le/salary.aspx

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

      Originally posted by BK
      Like many Colleges - Colleges and Universities are more focused on over paying their Employees than they are creating sustainable University business that can provide a good education at a reasonable cost.
      I feel for the Presidents of CSU being so under paid - $292,000 is a crime ;-)
      Perhaps you can suggest what wage you would work for in order to teach at a CSU.

      Whatever the Presidents make, the actual people doing the teaching make far less.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

        Originally posted by c1ue View Post
        Perhaps you can suggest what wage you would work for in order to teach at a CSU.

        Whatever the Presidents make, the actual people doing the teaching make far less.
        The CSU system used to rely heavily on adjunct part time lecturers for the actual teaching (before they were all fired). For an introductory one-term course taught by a PhD lecturer, expect to get paid $ 3500 per term. Many lecturers tend to be as expert and as good teachers as the full-time faculty.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

          I don't want to be making the case that there aren't lots of hard working people that will be hurt by these cut backs.

          But, CSU demonstrates what is wrong in so many part of our country jobs that exist because the Government has propped up the Organization. This free lunch was only possible on the back of an out of control real estate market and all a result of cheap money. The United States of America - can't afford a CSU the way it has been run and we can't afford to be flinging Million Dollar Cruise Missiles into Libya - or sending Space Shuttles up in to orbit without a Cost/profit analysis - we don't have any Money.

          There is no easy answer to dealing with the process of lowering the standard of living in the USA.

          Who should be the arbiter of which Occupations/classes of people get untouched by the current crisis. I have a family member who had a construction related business that employed 6 people full time and now he is struggling to survive. Who will come to the rescue of his business.

          There is No Joy in seeing an economic system drunk on Easy credit slowing to a more sustainable way of life.

          BTW- The minimum Monthly Salary I see for a lecturer in the CSU Database is $3,500 - $4,700 per month - I may be wrong - I'm wrong often and regularly...
          Minimal Annual Rate for at least one lecturer position being $57,000 to a $112,000 maximum.
          ttp://www.calstate.edu/HRAdm/SalarySchedule/SalaryDetail.aspx?S1=1&F1=lecturer&D1=0&Page=3&Recs=15&Rk=23314040201&Rn=39&Rt=54

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

            Originally posted by BK View Post
            I don't want to be making the case that there aren't lots of hard working people that will be hurt by these cut backs.

            But, CSU demonstrates what is wrong in so many part of our country jobs that exist because the Government has propped up the Organization. This free lunch was only possible on the back of an out of control real estate market and all a result of cheap money. The United States of America - can't afford a CSU the way it has been run and we can't afford to be flinging Million Dollar Cruise Missiles into Libya - or sending Space Shuttles up in to orbit without a Cost/profit analysis - we don't have any Money.

            There is no easy answer to dealing with the process of lowering the standard of living in the USA.

            Who should be the arbiter of which Occupations/classes of people get untouched by the current crisis. I have a family member who had a construction related business that employed 6 people full time and now he is struggling to survive. Who will come to the rescue of his business.

            There is No Joy in seeing an economic system drunk on Easy credit slowing to a more sustainable way of life.

            BTW- The minimum Monthly Salary I see for a lecturer in the CSU Database is $3,500 - $4,700 per month - I may be wrong - I'm wrong often and regularly...
            Minimal Annual Rate for at least one lecturer position being $57,000 to a $112,000 maximum.
            ttp://www.calstate.edu/HRAdm/SalarySchedule/SalaryDetail.aspx?S1=1&F1=lecturer&D1=0&Page=3&Recs=15&Rk=23314040201&Rn=39&Rt=54

            I agree. The lecture salaries that you quote are for fully employed lecturers, though, but all the people I know there are part time lecturers (underemployment is the real problem, not that the nominal full salaries wouldn't be fine, if you could get a full time position). The effort for somebody teaching two mornings a week,
            including preparation, commute, and office hours are not worth the money
            (no health benefits etc); I guess most people do it
            because they want to keep some semblance of employment, have hopes for
            future openings, want to stay in academia, or out of idealism.
            You can get an idea of the actual salaries (not only for CSU but for all of the CA state workers) from the search engine at http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/.
            Chose the AGENCY from the menu, and wait a while, it is slow to load.
            The few dozen bottom pages for CSU employees contain part time lecturers.
            Be warned: the sacbee page can be quite enraging if you look at other classes of CA employees. And there are surprises (see e.g., the salaries for the CA Highway Patrol).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

              Originally posted by BK
              But, CSU demonstrates what is wrong in so many part of our country jobs that exist because the Government has propped up the Organization. This free lunch was only possible on the back of an out of control real estate market and all a result of cheap money.
              I guess it all depends on what your definition of "free lunch" means.

              Dr. Michael Hudson in his latest series of articles/interviews notes that FIRE economies deliberately make government spending for such things as education and infrastructure look like 'losses', when in fact this spending generates a great deal of value in terms of productivity, labor competitiveness, and lower cost of living.

              EJ has also noted in the past that compulsory primary education, while a loss for many rural families in the beginning, was by far a net positive to the economy and nation, as well as the families in question in the long term.

              Also note that the CSU system is at least a somewhat credible alternative to expensive private schools - and therein lies the rub: the cutback in CSU spending is welcomed by everyone except those it would serve.

              Sadly, the constituents don't matter.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                I guess it all depends on what your definition of "free lunch" means.

                Dr. Michael Hudson in his latest series of articles/interviews notes that FIRE economies deliberately make government spending for such things as education and infrastructure look like 'losses', when in fact this spending generates a great deal of value in terms of productivity, labor competitiveness, and lower cost of living.

                EJ has also noted in the past that compulsory primary education, while a loss for many rural families in the beginning, was by far a net positive to the economy and nation, as well as the families in question in the long term.

                Also note that the CSU system is at least a somewhat credible alternative to expensive private schools - and therein lies the rub: the cutback in CSU spending is welcomed by everyone except those it would serve.

                Sadly, the constituents don't matter.
                Come on c1ue, why be so sentimental and wedded to the past? The US college educational system is a joke and a scam as anyone who is paying attention knows. For the most part it has become a vehicle to lock young kids into debt servitude. For the lucky few it is a 4 year party for rich kids before they get a job at Goldman. The age of the internet will forever change education for the better. Tear most of it down and give people what they need on the internet. The cream will still rise, both for profs and students. The big benefit of college is that it brings energetic people together who can share ideas. I can think of other ways less wasteful to get that done.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                  I taught at SDSU as a full time lecturer for 3 years (non tenure track) and earned about 5k per section. I can't speak to others' experiences because I tried not to get involved in the union, but I busted my hump for 50k per annum. I'm not complaining; I liked the job.

                  One thing to note: one only has to teach two sections (i.e. two classes) per semester to earn full health benefits, which are very good.

                  Pre-2008 I thought the students were getting a good value at a CSU. Not sure now, since class sizes are double and cost is triple. As with everything else at this point, I'm fairly pessimistic that this squeeze will result in a more efficient or better system.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                    Originally posted by Jay
                    Come on c1ue, why be so sentimental and wedded to the past? The US college educational system is a joke and a scam as anyone who is paying attention knows. For the most part it has become a vehicle to lock young kids into debt servitude. For the lucky few it is a 4 year party for rich kids before they get a job at Goldman. The age of the internet will forever change education for the better. Tear most of it down and give people what they need on the internet. The cream will still rise, both for profs and students. The big benefit of college is that it brings energetic people together who can share ideas. I can think of other ways less wasteful to get that done.
                    I hope you were being at least somewhat sarcastic.

                    The whole point of the CSU system was to offer affordable college education.

                    This is what the CSU tuition structure looks like now:
                    Student Type/Unit Fall 2010 Term Winter 2011 /
                    Spring 2011 Terms
                    Per
                    Semester
                    Per
                    Quarter
                    Per
                    Semester
                    Per
                    Quarter
                    Undergraduate Programs
                    6.1 or more $2,115 $1,410 $2,220 $1,480
                    0 to 6.0 $1,227 $818 $1,287 $858
                    Credential Programs
                    6.1 or more $2,454 $1,636 $2,577 $1,718
                    0 to 6.0 $1,425 $950 $1,494 $996
                    Graduate and Other Post-Baccalaureate Programs
                    6.1 or more $2,607 $1,738 $2,736 $1,824
                    0 to 6.0 $1,512 $1,008 $1,587 $1,058
                    Is the CSU system's education worse than say, the online University of Phoenix education? The numbers would appear to say not.

                    Frankly the entire 'internet' education paradigm has been far less than impressive thus far.

                    Not to say it can't achieve its potential, but so far it primarily seems a way to suck out money from desperate people without delivering much product. Like a gigantic chain letter of debt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                      c1ue,

                      23 CSU Presidents - average pay $292,000
                      23 X $292,000 = $6,716,000 On College Presidents for the CSU system - this is only the Tip of the Iceberg.
                      This Number doesn't include healthcare, or the Gold plated Retirement plan the Presidents are entitled to- necessary because of the low pay scale.
                      http://www.calstate.edu/administration/presidents.shtml

                      Austerity measures are the only way folks will wake up and realize that there are Education Elites who are sucking the system of every dime they can get..... and its always under the guise of "its for the children", "education is important we can't skimp".

                      Education is very important - the key to our future - but, we can't bankrupt our society to placate over paid school administrators.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                        All I'll say is I've learned more here on Itulip.com than I did in 4 years at UGA.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                          Originally posted by BK
                          23 CSU Presidents - average pay $292,000
                          23 X $292,000 = $6,716,000 On College Presidents for the CSU system - this is only the Tip of the Iceberg.
                          This Number doesn't include healthcare, or the Gold plated Retirement plan the Presidents are entitled to- necessary because of the low pay scale.
                          http://www.calstate.edu/administration/presidents.shtml
                          You keep fixating on CSU President pay - granted it seems high.

                          It seems ridiculous to use this as a proxy for the entire CSU system though - there are 47,000 CSU faculty and employees.

                          $2 billion divided by 47000 = $42,553.

                          In turn that $2 billion serves 400,000 students = $5,000 per student.

                          I don't know about you, but this hardly seems overpayment.

                          If you want to attack CSU president pay, by all means feel free to do so.

                          But 'starving the beast' doesn't work, and won't do what you apparently want it to do.

                          Originally posted by flintlock
                          All I'll say is I've learned more here on Itulip.com than I did in 4 years at UGA.
                          Try and get an economics based job using your iTulip learning...

                          Edit: By way of comparison - Stanford university has an annual budget of $3.8 billion - or almost twice as much as the entire CSU system contribution from the California state budget. Stanford serves slightly less than 20,000 students.
                          Last edited by c1ue; March 24, 2011, 12:13 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                            Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                            If you want to attack CSU president pay, by all means feel free to do so.

                            But 'starving the beast' doesn't work, and won't do what you apparently want it to do.
                            Sorry in advance for the rant.

                            You're generally right, C1ue. Even $250k-$300k/yr is nothing in comparison to what chief executives make in the private sector. CSU is indeed a terrific bargain compared to what's out there today. Things would have been better were it not for prop 13, the California Killer, but the system is still strong by US standards.

                            Still, the race to the top for certain salaries and the race to the bottom for all others is troubling.

                            Take for instance state-tax-payer and/or tuition supported college basketball coaches. Is it good to have a basketball coach? Probably. Is it ridiculous to pay them over $1.5M/yr in public funds and student tuition? Absolutely.

                            When you can get 4-5 teachers for the price of a president and 30 teachers for the price of a basketball coach, something has gone awry.

                            I feel the same way about state/county education departments. Decisions are made by bureaucrats far away from the actual classroom.

                            Education departments tend to treat schools as more homogenous than they are - instill 'one-size-fits-all' mandates, take away teacher freedom, and gobble up a good portion of a limited pie. They hire six-figure 'chief transformation officers,' and 'chief innovation officers,' then announce they have to shut down schools and can teachers. It's terrible.

                            School was never that hard of a concept to figure out. Get ~15-30 kids, get a room, get a teacher, get some desks & books, assign some homework, get some exercise, wash, rinse, repeat. We learned this hundreds of years ago. Now there are in-school police, 37 guidance councilors because each kid needs an IEP, and 4 or 5 principals where one used to do, because someone needs to interact with the bureaucrats.

                            Here's the trick they don't often talk about with education: both the liberals and the conservatives have it wrong. Liberals go for Title I, standard tests, push for additional grants w/ no tuition cap limits (i.e. your school is not eligible for federal student loans or aid if you charge tuition over Y$, or increase tuition over X%/yr), and standardized state bureaucracy. Conservatives go for slicing into the meat of the budgets, stripping teachers pay, standard tests, and liberalizing predatory private loan+school schemes that create dysfunctional public schools and crushing debt burdens for college kids.

                            Both approaches are sub-optimal. They overcomplicate a simple thing. Give more local control. Get good books. Hire more teachers. Hire less administrators, bureaucrats, and guidance councilors. Limit construction to what is sensible and necessary. Float as little debt as possible. Only one person employed per school should be wearing a suit given time.

                            Make the public 4-year higher-ed system more meritocratic. Provide free public college for those who qualify. Provide better vocational training at 2-yr schools. Do not let just anyone in who's (or whose parents are) willing to pay. Be selective. Reward those who work for it. Hire smart people. Teach kids well.

                            The problem with what CA's doing is that it is just cutting the funds. Administrators generally will not elect ax their own when the time comes to make the call. They will raise tuition and likely let tenure-track positions go unfilled, opting instead for adjuncts. The result is predictable, and never good.
                            Last edited by dcarrigg; March 24, 2011, 01:36 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: More tales of the recovery: California State University system to lose 25% of its state funding

                              Originally posted by c1ue View Post
                              This is what the CSU tuition structure looks like now:

                              Student Type/Unit Fall 2010 Term Winter 2011 /
                              Spring 2011 Terms
                              Per
                              Semester Per
                              Quarter Per
                              Semester Per
                              Quarter
                              Undergraduate Programs
                              6.1 or more $2,115 $1,410 $2,220 $1,480
                              0 to 6.0 $1,227 $818 $1,287 $858
                              Credential Programs
                              6.1 or more $2,454 $1,636 $2,577 $1,718
                              0 to 6.0 $1,425 $950 $1,494 $996
                              Graduate and Other Post-Baccalaureate Programs
                              6.1 or more $2,607 $1,738 $2,736 $1,824
                              0 to 6.0 $1,512 $1,008 $1,587 $1,058
                              I couldn't get the table up but, this looks like a good price for an indoctrination.

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