Why democracies will always go bust

[Mega]

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011...-bankrupt.html

Smart guy, like him......he up there with
EJ
Schiff
Keiser
Keen

[flintlock]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

Does he get paid by the word? That guy could have saved his time and ours by just saying, " People in a Democracy want to have their cake and eat it too". NO S%#T. Instead he wasted a thousand words saying as much. Well actually he spent 99% of the words trying to show us how smart he is.

I liked his response to a someone in the comment section on how he was "overcomplicating a simple issue".

His response, "Thanks, nobull, but read it again: This is the most important essay I have ever written—this is a major proof. "

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

Does he get paid by the word? That guy could have saved his time and ours by just saying, " People in a Democracy want to have their cake and eat it too". NO S%#T. Instead he wasted a thousand words saying as much. Well actually he spent 99% of the words trying to show us how smart he is.

I liked his response to a someone in the comment section on how he was "overcomplicating a simple issue".

His response, "Thanks, nobull, but read it again: This is the most important essay I have ever written—this is a major proof. "

The man is no Oswald Spengler, that's for sure.

Overall, not very well written. Certainly, not written by someone well versed in philosophy.

[rshimada]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

Seems like the author went spiraling off on a tangent.

1. United States debt is is US Dollars. In 1971, the United States closed the gold window. So either:

a) The United States effectively went bankrupt in 1971, or
b) The United States cannot go bankrupt because it can create an infinite amount of fiat US Dollars.

2. There are no true democracies. The United States is a "democratic republic", where (a mere) 536 politicians (of which enough can be bought) are elected to run the Federal Government. The only politician elected across states is the President.

3. The banking system makes profits from the interest on debt. Buy enough government officials and a government will be in debt.

I don't see what democracy has to do with the bankruptcy of nations.

[metalman]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011...-bankrupt.html

Smart guy, like him......he up there with
EJ
Schiff
Keiser
Keen

said better & in fewer words 6 yrs ago by ej & a mysterious 'wall street analyst'.

[Alvaro Spain]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

said better & in fewer words 6 yrs ago by ej & a mysterious 'wall street analyst'.

Thanks for pointing to this article. Since things have not changed much since then, EJ must be depressed.

Nevertheless it is not democracy's fault. It is our own fault (in every country) if we elect leaders who reflect our inner misery. In the case of USA presidents, in my opinion, FD Roosevelt and Eisenhower were the last good and normal human beings, and not egomaniac monsters of hubris.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

I don't see what democracy has to do with the bankruptcy of nations.

This is probably a good place to start, although bankruptcy is not specifically discussed

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Econ...5274444&sr=8-1

the existence of "true" democracy is irrelevant. Laws are not written with the future in mind, only the immediate gratification of 51% of the people who bother voting.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

Thanks for pointing to this article. Since things have not changed much since then, EJ must be depressed.

Nevertheless it is not democracy's fault. It is our own fault (in every country) if we elect leaders who reflect our inner misery. In the case of USA presidents, in my opinion, FD Roosevelt and Eisenhower were the last good and normal human beings, and not egomaniac monsters of hubris.

Fault is irrelevant. All that matters is survival. If the system does not work, and more importantly has never worked, something else will fill the void. It's not like we're going to sit back and let humanity go extinct because the majority of the people, who were peasants in a more civilized age, are incapable of selecting wising leaders. It was foolish to give them such power from the beginning, and now we have to deal with the consequences - consequences that likely will be painful for everyone.

FDR and Eisenhower were monsters, by the way. This very issue was central to World War II. Not only did they cement this failed system, they laid waste to much of the West and condemned half of Europe to enslavement under communism.

If the West survives, which looks increasingly improbable, his name will be cursed. If the European people become effectively extinct, his name will be forgotten. There is no path that will lead to his memory being cherished.

[Alvaro Spain]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

Fault is irrelevant. All that matters is survival. If the system does not work, and more importantly has never worked, something else will fill the void. It's not like we're going to sit back and let humanity go extinct because the majority of the people, who were peasants in a more civilized age, are incapable of selecting wising leaders. It was foolish to give them such power from the beginning, and now we have to deal with the consequences - consequences that likely will be painful for everyone.

Serge,

It seems that we are in agreement that people don't elect wise leaders. Now we have two alternatives:

1.- We abolish democracy and have dictatorship. Will this increase chances of survival? I believe that this is a very risky alternative.

2.- We go through a most severe crisis and we realize that we have been totally selfish, that the leaders that we have elected to guide us are the reflection of our own selfishness, and that it has been our fault all the time. The pain help us learn something about ourselves. We cease puting the blame on others. Next time (after having overcome a very hard punishment) we elect better.

[shiny!]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

... the majority of the people, who were peasants in a more civilized age, are incapable of selecting wising leaders. It was foolish to give them such power from the beginning

So who should decide who gets power to vote and who does not? Who determines who's a "peasant" and who is "voter quality"? A "selected" group based upon what criteria? Who should have a right to determine that?

[cbr]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

It's real simple; democracy worked pretty well in a country run by relatively homogeneous group of men of a background where honor and honesty were personal codes strong enough to override some measure of self interest. At that time, voters were for the most part semi educated people with a personal stake in their own future and that of their state and country.


When democracies let people vote who can't even read, don't own property or know anything about the issues, and are net receivers of state funds to exist on, rather than net supporters of government (i.e. taxpayers), then of course it is doomed to fail. Any idiot can see that.

When you then enfranchise voters who don't have a strong moral code of their own, and come from backgrounds that lack a work ethic, the problem accellerates.

Then add a measure of technology and organizational sophistication that has ramped up in the last 30 years, where consolidated money and special interests can wratchet down total control over all electoral options, and you have the present United States. The future is dim.

[rshimada]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

the existence of "true" democracy is irrelevant. Laws are not written with the future in mind, only the immediate gratification of 51% of the people who bother voting.

I disagree. Would the general public have voted for TARP? Invading Afghanistan and Iraq? In democratic republics, what influence does a voter have outside of electing a politician?

Let me clarify one of my points: government officials - whether a politician in democracy or not - can and will be bought. The banking system and corporations have a lot of weight to throw around.

Much of our future depends on the moral values of those who run government, which means we're in a lot of trouble.

[mliu_01]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

So where do I get a king, or better a queen?

democracies will always go bust ? So tell me what have not go bust ever?

[flintlock]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

FDR and Eisenhower were monsters

Sorry, but you lost me with that one.

[leegs]

Re: Why democracies will always go bust

We go through a most severe crisis and we realize that we have been totally selfish, that the leaders that we have elected to guide us are the reflection of our own selfishness, and that it has been our fault all the time. The pain help us learn something about ourselves. We cease puting the blame on others. Next time (after having overcome a very hard punishment) we elect better.

And I would add to that - we elect better, AND THEN times are good for a while, until eventually the same sort of societal decay and private and public corruption that we see happening now will take over again, result in another big reset. Its sadly just human nature.

I think there is one thing that Serge has right, in his otherwise distasteful (at least), arguments. It is that his point of view addresses the inevitable cyclical nature of things, in that they are born, can become successful for a while, and then consume themselves.

I think one can make similar observations about policies such as the New Deal. IMO many things that were implemented in the 30's were appropriate for the time, and were important to our subsequent success. Those same things are elements of our current crisis.