Where the gold came from

[mooncliff]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...science-space/

[Starving Steve]

Re: Where the gold came from

If the proto-Earth or very early Earth was struck by an object the size of Mars, then there should be plenty of evidence aside from computer modelling that would show the Earth vibrating in orbit. The vibration should be huge. And the marks or details on the Earth's surface should provide evidence of a huge collision.

I am the slow-learner here, and I am no astronomer. But I have my suspicion that this theory is nothing more than junk science.

As for the Moon, I want to see evidence of the collision in its orbit? When was the Moon formed, before or after the collision?

As for the metals found on the Moon, I would like to see more sampling of the Moon's surface, NOT computer models or speculation. Convince me of what happened and when. The burden of proof lies with the fabricator of this theory about a collison between an object the size of Mars and the proto-Earth.

What is interesting about the Moon is its size. The Moon is huge. The Earth and the Moon seem to be a double-planet, and no other double-planet like this exists in the Solar System. So where did the Moon come from? Is the Moon a piece of the Earth? Why is the Moon so devoid of life, and why is the Earth teaming with life? Why is the Moon lithium rich, and the Earth so poor in lithium? Where did the water-ice come from on the Moon?

Just give me the basics here, and dispense with the computer models, at least for now.

[c1ue]

Re: Where the gold came from

I have to agree with SS on this one.

Forget gold. What about Uranium?

If all 'heavy' elements were supposed to have gone into the Earth's core, then there shouldn't be Uranium in the Earth's mantle either.

So I suppose the uranium also came from meteors? Easy enough to verify - how many glowing asteroids are out there?

There is also a mechanism for cycling the Earth's inner contents to the mantle: vulcanism

Lastly the moon not having much in the way of metals can easily be explained if the Moon was formed as the Earth was - the heavier elements grouped with the larger object. Or if the Moon was formed by ejecta from a massive asteroid collision with Earth - mostly the lighter elements would have achieved escape velocity and then coalesced into an orbital object. Or if the Moon was a chondraceous type asteroid captured by the Earth.

Overall, a very weak paper indeed.

[cbr]

Re: Where the gold came from

now that's what i call plan b; find another moon sized asteroid to deliver some more gold and end the QE debate for good...

[we_are_toast]

Re: Where the gold came from

I am the slow-learner here, and I am no astronomer. But I have my suspicion that this theory is nothing more than junk science.

As for the Moon, I want to see evidence of the collision in its orbit? When was the Moon formed, before or after the collision?

...


Just give me the basics here, and dispense with the computer models, at least for now.

Get yourself a pair of binoculars and go look at the moon, then tell me about your doubts about collisions in our solar system.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Where the gold came from

Get yourself a pair of binoculars and go look at the moon, then tell me about your doubts about collisions in our solar system.

Collisions, yes. The Earth has plenty of craters from collisions, and the Moon is covered with craters. Collisions happen often enough.

But a collision with the Earth and a planet roughly the size of Mars? Don't give me computer modelling crap, or an artist's rendering. I want the hard data, not the modelling.

BBC might cover a story like this, because BBC News loves sensational pictures.

But science, real science, is down-right boring. The observations have to be done carefully and maticulously. The observations have to be done independently of any theory or hypothesis.

In climatology, the data is collected from climate stations. Film of polar bears floating-away on shrinking icebergs made for great news coverage on BBC, but it was not science. Fudged-data or pre-selected data for "climate-forcing" in climate modelling was not honest science, but the television audience loved it.

In astronomy, an artist's rendering of two worlds colliding plus a computer-modelling is not science, either.

Show me the HUGE vibrations of the Earth in its orbit, plus the huge crater on the Earth's surface. Then, I want the geology to confirm the crater and the discovery of heavy metals. What does the hypothesis of two worlds colliding predict, and does the Earth's geology and geography confirm that hypothesis, exactly?

Oh yes, show me the gold. Where is the gold from a Mars-like object, and where wouldn't the gold be? And how much gold did you find in your crater? Convince me where the next gold discovery will be found and then find it there.......... Show me!

[peakishmael]

Re: Where the gold came from

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.

Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

Steve - I would suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth , which covers some of the evidence for an impact origin of the moon. Of course Wikipedia is pretty summary-level stuff, but there's lots of material out there if you really want to look. In any case, the standard model of Earth/Moon formation doesn't require "huge vibrations", or a crater on Earth's surface.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Where the gold came from

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

Steve - I would suggest you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth , which covers some of the evidence for an impact origin of the moon. Of course Wikipedia is pretty summary-level stuff, but there's lots of material out there if you really want to look. In any case, the standard model of Earth/Moon formation doesn't require "huge vibrations", or a crater on Earth's surface.

It may well be that the Earth collided with the Moon, or the Moon was blasted out of the Earth. That might explain the Pacific Basin. But because I am a cranky old man, "grey and grumpy", I want the vibrations. Where are they, or why aren't they there?

Then, I want the gold. "Show me the gold!." Show me that the hypothesis leads to results: Show the heavy-metal deposits, and just as importantly, show me where the heavy metals can not be.


By the way, thinking about continental drift: why wouldn't continental drift be a better explanation for the Pacific Basin than a collision with the Moon or another planet? And then why is the Moon so different than the Earth if the Moon was blasted out of the Earth?

The only major lithium deposit that I know of on Earth is in South America, I think in Chile. But the Moon is full of lithium. Why? If your theory holds true, it has to explain everything.

I know of no theory that can ignore the conservation of matter-energy law in physics. So where are the Earth's vibrations from a collision with a planet roughly as big as Mars?

Once a theory is uneconomical in its explanations, it is for the pot-heads or the Area 51 bunch. But I would discard the theory.

[nitroglycol]

Re: Where the gold came from

The vibrations aren't necessary to balance the energy equation. Some of it would take the form of kinetic energy in material that is torn away from the Earth in the collision; much would be released as heat and radiated off into space. No hocus pocus necessary.

Of course, it would be too much to claim that the impact origin theory is proven; we still have to test it. And that means, among other things, seeing if the present composition of the Earth and Moon is consistent with it. Thus, this strikes me as good and worthwhile research.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Where the gold came from

The vibrations aren't necessary to balance the energy equation. Some of it would take the form of kinetic energy in material that is torn away from the Earth in the collision; much would be released as heat and radiated off into space. No hocus pocus necessary.

Of course, it would be too much to claim that the impact origin theory is proven; we still have to test it. And that means, among other things, seeing if the present composition of the Earth and Moon is consistent with it. Thus, this strikes me as good and worthwhile research.

Aside from the Moon, where is the debris that was blown-off of the Earth? One of the most interesting observations about the Earth-Moon system is that there are no other moons orbiting this system, nor orbiting the Moon, nor orbiting the Earth. NOTHING is out there except for man-made satelites put into orbit by rockets. This is a very strange observation, and it argues against debris being blown-off the Earth to use up the energy in the collision of a Mars-sized planet with Earth..... So back to the energy from the collision: Where is it? Where are the vibrations? All of the energy would have had to go to generate heat, which could have happened, but I doubt it.

[metalman]

Re: Where the gold came from

Get yourself a pair of binoculars and go look at the moon, then tell me about your doubts about collisions in our solar system.

my gold from asteroids?

nfw

my theory is... this is my theory... that is... my theory... that is this... god shit 1 mil tons of gold onto the planet in a fit in 1327... bored as hell as he was at the time.