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Re: US to world: your sovereignty even on your own soil is irrelevant
I'm from Norway and have experience of the US and other countries, so feel entitled to comment for mutual enlightenment. It is a gross exageration that Norway embraces murderous terrorists. Norway has been a loyal ally in the "Global War of Terror", however pointless and unnecessary it may feel to the general population here. It is with some pride we can say that we have not bankrupted our nation in doing so. However, as a small and open country we are particular about our sovereignity. We were effectively colonized for 400 years and got full sovereignity only in 1905. In addition, our leaders and the general population realize that the United States has its own interests at heart. There is significant benefit to cooperation, but the United States does have a less than stellar record in subtle and not so subtle intervention in other countries affairs. While I am not surprised that the US carries out surveillance, it is felt that the exact way this was performed is a breach of diplomatic protocol. If it were more subtle, and involved the Norwegians more, there would be no problem. Essentially, what the US did was to hire a rogue team of Norwegian ex-intelligence officers, hack into our police system database and perform street level surveillance at a level that was unheard of, and with no official sanction or liason of any kind with the government.
I should also comment on the fact that we probably harbor a number of asylum seekers with probable terrorist connections. One example is Mullah Krekar. But we can't send him home, as he will be executed. Norwegians have a strong belief in the rule of law, and we don't execute people.
Again:
1. We are more particular about upholding the rule of law than some of our bigger allies and believe that it is in our and the worlds interest to do so.
2. We have differing assessments as to the scale and nature of terrorist threats and reserve the right to police our own country according to our own judgement.
3. We don't like to have our toes stepped on by a panic-stricken bankrupted old friend, even if he is much bigger than us.
4. Whenever the American government moves, there tends to be collateral damage so we like to keep our heads down when the bullets fly.
That said, I actually do smell a rat so don't throw a fit about my righteous rant above. The US is up shit creek without a paddle. My god, you're fucked every which way. Problem is, Norway is quite tightly coupled with the US dominated world. Now, this story is a significant embarrasment to the US _and_ to the Norwegian government. So who put the story out - and for what gain? There's the real story. This story dovetails nicely with another recent story. There's recently been a huge campaign in the media to rehabilitate a Norwegian spy convicted of treason for the Russians in the early 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Treholt). He is obviously guilty of being extremely familiar with the Russians, and says so himself. But he is running a campaign to quash his conviction because, as he says, "he was very close to the line of illegality, but never crossed it". Somebody seems to be able to dupe Norwegian media and perhaps citizens into believing this hogwash.
Something doesn't feel right. The Americans are bastards, but they're our bastards as long as we keep an arms length distance. I'm pretty certain that there is another external player somewhere, gunning for influence.
Well I feel that is quite enough about my country. Please go away and bother another more important country.
Originally posted by Scot
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I should also comment on the fact that we probably harbor a number of asylum seekers with probable terrorist connections. One example is Mullah Krekar. But we can't send him home, as he will be executed. Norwegians have a strong belief in the rule of law, and we don't execute people.
Again:
1. We are more particular about upholding the rule of law than some of our bigger allies and believe that it is in our and the worlds interest to do so.
2. We have differing assessments as to the scale and nature of terrorist threats and reserve the right to police our own country according to our own judgement.
3. We don't like to have our toes stepped on by a panic-stricken bankrupted old friend, even if he is much bigger than us.
4. Whenever the American government moves, there tends to be collateral damage so we like to keep our heads down when the bullets fly.
That said, I actually do smell a rat so don't throw a fit about my righteous rant above. The US is up shit creek without a paddle. My god, you're fucked every which way. Problem is, Norway is quite tightly coupled with the US dominated world. Now, this story is a significant embarrasment to the US _and_ to the Norwegian government. So who put the story out - and for what gain? There's the real story. This story dovetails nicely with another recent story. There's recently been a huge campaign in the media to rehabilitate a Norwegian spy convicted of treason for the Russians in the early 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Treholt). He is obviously guilty of being extremely familiar with the Russians, and says so himself. But he is running a campaign to quash his conviction because, as he says, "he was very close to the line of illegality, but never crossed it". Somebody seems to be able to dupe Norwegian media and perhaps citizens into believing this hogwash.
Something doesn't feel right. The Americans are bastards, but they're our bastards as long as we keep an arms length distance. I'm pretty certain that there is another external player somewhere, gunning for influence.
Well I feel that is quite enough about my country. Please go away and bother another more important country.
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