Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

[mooncliff]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Five years ago I started screaming that we were going to have a depression... during the peak of the bubble, so I sounded nuts... My rule since then has been simple: Get future expenses down.
The elastomeric roof I put on, if you do it yourself and dont fall off the roof, is up to 1/10 the cost of a new roof. I had someone do it, so it was 1/2 the price. I need not do anything for 10 years, and maybe can get away with 20 if things are really bad. The roof is now basically fireproof and windproof, and it cut the air conditioning cost by thousands per year. Seven friends and family have seen the roof and are satisfied that it is OK, and so did the same thing. Total savings is now well over $100k.
I had the house painted two years ago using a titanium oxide ceramic additive, which is supposed to extend the life of the paint to up to 20 years.
I reinforced the house with HurriQuake nails and hurricane straps, and so lowered the insurance.
I installed a solar water heater 30 years ago, so hot water is free.
I am now going to replace the often used lights with LEDs next year, switched over to induction heating cooking, and am going to buy an LED TV to replace the ancient CRT one we have soon.
This has gotten the total annual cost of the house (mortgage paid off 20 years ago) down to $5,000 for everything... taxes, utilities, insurance, maintenance... absolutely everything in total. I could install photovoltaics now and get it down to $4,000 per year, but I think they will get cheaper, and I am STILL waiting for a feed-in-tariff... which if it pays just a few thousand a year, get the total cost of the house down to near zero, which is my goal.
All my investments in the last 5 years have gone to reducing future expenses.
I did things like broached the subject of my cousin's mortgage with her, and got her to refinance, and saved her $60k. I can get away with talking about delicate things because everyone will tell you that I NEVER talked about money before... but we are having an emergency, so normal reticence is out the window...
Doing this is actually much more fun than stock picking.

My dad's house is now zero net energy... his utility bill is $150 dollars a year just for the connection charge because he installed photovoltaics. This will become easier and easier as costs of energy efficient appliances collapse, photovoltaics go way down, etc. Superefficient heat pumps for hot water are coming soon, for just a few thousand dollars. The technologies will mature soon, so don't necessarily do anything now, but study all the ways you could get your own expenses down, and then adopt over the next few years as technologies mature. Use zillow to poke around for rents and to look for foreclosures. One of my friends was just shocked to see that down the street from his million dollar home, a fairly similar house had gone for 200k in the last year.
The economy is gonna really suck over the next decade, but I think it is possible to outrun the problems by doing everything possible to get costs down.
Oh, and learn to grow vegetables... it is really one of the joys of life anyway...

[jiimbergin]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

FiThe economy is gonna really suck over the next decade, but I think it is possible to outrun the problems by doing everything possible to get costs down. Oh, and learn to grow vegetables... it is really one of the joys of life anyway...

I have had a garden for almost 40 years and it is a great joy! I supply much of my large family, many in my church family and neighbors with tomatoes, peppers, squash etc every year. I also have blackberries, strawberries, blueberries and now Kiwi (will not produce for a couple years). I plan to plant asparagus, apples, peaches and cherries this fall and next spring.

jim

[Fiat Currency]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

mooncliff,

Your experiences sound interesting. Well done! Perhaps you should start a thread where fellow iTulipers could benefit from your learnings & share their experiences too.

Thanks for sharing.

[mooncliff]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

One of the best things I have ever grown is beets. The young leaves when you thin them out make great salad, the mature leaves can be stirfried, and the roots are great boiled and have huge amounts of antioxidants. I have even grown them in a pot. Most people have never had fresh boiled beets, but when they do... they love them. I gave a bunch to a cousin who had never had them before, and he liked them so much he ate all of them... the next morning, he was in the toilet yelling for his wife saying he was bleeding... she took one look and said "No... you just ate all those beets last night!" ;)
The LED lights for growing indoors are about to get really good and really cheap, so you will be able to start your own seedlings indoors from now on for a fraction of what you used to pay, and with no diseases like happened the other year when a lot of plants were infected with fungus.

[jiimbergin]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

I too love to grow beets, but my wife does not like them. For the last 35 years, after planting, I put down newspapers between rows and around plants and cover them with mulch of some kind (leaves are best, but grass clippings etc also work). This keeps the weeds down, lessens need to water and improves the soil after I till the newspapers and mulch back into the soil in the fall. I also cover the garden with black plastic after tilling it. In the spring, no matter what the weather has been, the soil is ready to plant (never too wet or dry). Winter and spring weeds did not get a chance to grown and many insects have been killed.

[mooncliff]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Also, I have used Aluminet, which is a kind of shadecloth... very lightweight. It keeps plants from burning from too much sun in the summer, and keeps frost off plants for much longer in the fall because on cold clear nights, it reflects heat back onto the plants instead of letting it escape to the Void. I have used it for 5 years, and it is great. Kinda expensive, but well worthwhile. 30% shade is good. In the summer when there is too much sunlight and it is too hot, I have found that plants grow about double the size because they are not so stressed.

Aluminet shadecloth and titanium oxide elastomeric roofs do the same thing. They reflect away heat in the summer when there is too much light and heat, and the reflect back down heat when you are facing the cold dark cloudless night sky in the winter. Think about cloud cover. Clouds reflect excess heat in the summer, and in the winter, on cloudy nights, clouds reflect heat back down, so it is not as cold. Counterintuitive, but the effect is enormous.

Mulching is crucial.

Also, I have been incorporating ground up hardwood charcoal into the soil, and it is unbelievable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta


http://www.physorg.com/news182620663.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzmpWR6JUZQ

THE VIDEO AT THE BOTTOM IS A MUST-SEE
BBC program discussing the use of agricultural charcoal and terra preta in the Amazon, entitled BBC - Horizon - The Secret of El Dorado
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon...eldorado.shtml

"New evidence that advanced societies flourished in the Amazon Basin before the arrival of Europeans

It was the most notorious wild-goose chase in history: the Conquistadors’ search for El Dorado, a fabulous kingdom of gold that Indians said lay hidden in the jungles of the Amazon Basin. But now, at last, archaeologists have uncovered the truth behind that myth. They have found evidence of a huge society, as advanced as the Egyptians or the Incas, right in the heart of the rainforest. And this is more than the story of a lost world rediscovered.

For it seems that the people of the real El Dorado possessed a secret with the power to transform our world and their secret in the soil could be the solution to solving famine in the thrid world and other nations once and for all.... "

The scale of pre-Columbian agriculture in the Amazon is jawdropping.

THE SECRET OF EL DORADO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCu8Mi4e5yk

[jiimbergin]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Well Mooncliff, I hope we can convince others to join us in this great experience. I will look into the shade cloth.

jim

[c1ue]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Gosh, I love hearing stories like that. There aren't too many Jan Baalsrud's this day and age. I always try and talk to the military guys who show up in the ED. Sometimes you can get them talking and it is fascinating to get the stories first hand. I feel lucky when someone feels comfortable enough to open up about such tough times. What is interesting to me is that as many WWII, Korean and Vietnam vets are willing to open up, I NEVER get anyone willing to talk about the Great Depression. I think that is very telling and worth thinking about going forward in the new Depression.

I think it is far too early to say that the times we are in at this instant is as bad as it is going to get.

I see no reason whatsoever to think that the (to my knowledge) still standing iTulip view of an economic dislocation in 2013 (at latest) has changed.

And when that happens, the real wannabe populist tyrants will have their window of opportunity.

[flintlock]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

One of the best things I have ever grown is beets. The young leaves when you thin them out make great salad, the mature leaves can be stirfried, and the roots are great boiled and have huge amounts of antioxidants. I have even grown them in a pot. Most people have never had fresh boiled beets, but when they do... they love them. I gave a bunch to a cousin who had never had them before, and he liked them so much he ate all of them... the next morning, he was in the toilet yelling for his wife saying he was bleeding... she took one look and said "No... you just ate all those beets last night!" ;)
.

Is that you Dwight?

[Jay]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

I think it is far too early to say that the times we are in at this instant is as bad as it is going to get.

That's not what I said. Maybe I was unclear.

One of my points is that the last Depression was so bad that no one wants to talk about it still. Some people are willing to talk of the horrors of war but yet won't talk of the Great Depression. We are in a Depression now. Connect the dots about the near future.

[Jay]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Well Mooncliff, I hope we can convince others to join us in this great experience. I will look into the shade cloth.

jim

Thanks to both of you. I have been growing a garden for the last two years. This year was twice as good as last year. Next year will be even better! So far: tomatoes (lots of varieties), peppers, squash, zucchini, and basil. My blueberries should come in next year. The cauliflower didn't do so well. Tons of tomatoes though and delicious right off the vine! I'm going to try beets, thanks mooncliff for that! Any suggestions on plant LED's?

[jiimbergin]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

One vegetable I would suggest is butternut squash. It's meat is more like a pumpkin than what most people think of squash. One big advantage of it is that it will last up to a year and still be fine to eat. There are a ton of receipes on the net for it. One of the best thing you can do with it is make a pumpkin pie. If you put in the right spices, no one will know that it is not pumpkin. We have fooled many people who told us they would never eat butternut squash.

jim

[Jay]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

One vegetable I would suggest is butternut squash. It's meat is more like a pumpkin than what most people think of squash. One big advantage of it is that it will last up to a year and still be fine to eat. There are a ton of receipes on the net for it. One of the best thing you can do with it is make a pumpkin pie. If you put in the right spices, no one will know that it is not pumpkin. We have fooled many people who told us they would never eat butternut squash.

jim

Great suggestion, my wife makes the best soups and it will be fantastic! It will last a year in the cellar on the shelf?

[jiimbergin]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Great suggestion, my wife makes the best soups and it will be fantastic! It will last a year in the cellar on the shelf?

Some will last that long, but not all. If the squash was damaged at all, it will eventually rot. If the stem is taken off it will rot quickly. I have one squash on a shelf downstairs that I put there last fall. I have often taken squash that was from last year's crop to a local soup kitchen when the new crop was comming in and as far as I know it was fine. Most will last through the winter with no problem.

In the last few years I have also planted malabar. It is a substitute for spinach and grows very long vines in the summer. It is also used as a thickener for soups and stews. It completely covers one of my arbors by early July.

jim

ps. The vines are very long so you need a lot of room. I plant mine so some of it grows into the old corn stalks after the corn is finished.

[Jay]

Re: Are These the Economy's Good Old Days?

Some will last that long, but not all. If the squash was damaged at all, it will eventually rot. If the stem is taken off it will rot quickly. I have one squash on a shelf downstairs that I put there last fall. I have often taken squash that was from last year's crop to a local soup kitchen when the new crop was comming in and as far as I know it was fine. Most will last through the winter with no problem.

In the last few years I have also planted malabar. It is a substitute for spinach and grows very long vines in the summer. It is also used as a thickener for soups and stews. It completely covers one of my arbors by early July.

jim

ps. The vines are very long so you need a lot of room. I plant mine so some of it grows into the old corn stalks after the corn is finished.

Interesting, I've never heard of malabar. But it looks like I've had it in a few vegetable samosas over the years! Can I grow it in NE?