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  • Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

    Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

    I knew I would be touching a raw nerve with my last twoposts, on patents. But I was really surprised at the divergence of opinion. Entrepreneurs overwhelmingly supported my stance that software patents hamper innovation and need to be abolished, but friends at Microsoft, IBM, and Google were outraged at my recommendation. The big companies’ executives argued that abolishing patents would hurt their ability to innovate and thus hamper the nation’s economic growth. (They believe that companies like theirs create the majority of jobs and innovations, and they claim that without patents they cannot defend their innovations.) I am not convinced that software patents give Google any advantage over Microsoft and Yahoo, or make IBM’s databases any better than Oracle’s. But I do know one thing for sure: it isn’t the big companies that create the jobs or the revolutionary technology innovations: it is startups. So if we need to pick sides, I vote for the startups.

    Let’s start with the question of who creates the jobs. This is one of the issues that I recently took Intel co-founder Andy Grove to task for, in BusinessWeek. Grove wrote a profound essay lamenting the loss of American manufacturing jobs. I share his concerns about jobs. But Andy’s protectionist recommendations for restoring America’s competitiveness were largely based on his flawed premise that companies like Intel create all the jobs—not the startups. I also discussed the tradeoff between bailing out companies like General Motors, AIG, and Citibank and nurturing startups in this BusinessWeek piece. This question is more important than it may seem.



    Kauffman Foundation has done extensive research on job creation. Kauffman Senior Fellow Tim Kaneanalyzed a new data set from the U.S. government, called Business Dynamics Statistics, which provides details about the age and employment of businesses started in the U.S. since 1977. What this showed was that startups aren’t just an important contributor to job growth: they’re the only thing. Without startups, there would be no net job growth in the U.S. economy. From 1977 to 2005, existing companies were net job destroyers, losing 1 million net jobs per year. In contrast, new businesses in their first year added an average of 3 million jobs annually.



    When analyzed by company age, the data are even more startling. Gross job creation at startups averaged more than 3 million jobs per year during 1992–2005, four times as high as any other yearly age group. Existing firms in all year groups have gross job losses that are larger than gross job gains.

    Half of the startups go out of business within five years; but overall they are still the ones that lead the charge in employment creation. Kauffman Foundation analyzed the average employment of all firms as they age from year zero (birth) to year five. When a given cohort of startups reaches age five, its employment level is 80 percent of what it was when it began. In 2000, for example, startups created 3,099,639 jobs. By 2005, the surviving firms had a total employment of 2,412,410, or about 78 percent of the number of jobs that existed when these firms were born.

    So we can’t count on the Intels or Microsofts to create employment: we need the entrepreneurs. And there is an important lesson here for the states and cities that offer huge incentives to companies like Dell, Google, and Intel to locate their operations there. The regions should, instead, be focusing on creating more startups, not providing life support to technology behemoths.

    Now let’s talk about innovation. Apple is the poster child for tech innovation; it releases one groundbreaking product after another. But let’s get beyond Apple. I challenge you to name another tech company that innovates like Apple—with game-changing technologies like the iPod, iTunes, iPhone, and iPad. Google certainly doesn’t fit the bill—after its original search engine and ad platform, it hasn’t invented anything earth shattering. Yes, Google did develop a nice email system and some mapping software, but these were incremental innovations. For that matter, what earth-shattering products have IBM, HP, Microsoft, Oracle, or Cisco produced in recent times? These companies constantly acquire startups and take advantage of their own size and distribution channels to scale up the innovations they have purchased. They let the startups take the risk and prove the business models.

    This raises an interesting question. Google and Microsoft have always prided themselves for hiring the cream of the crop of software developers. It is ridiculously hard to get a job at either company. But when technology’s top guns join these companies, they seem to make a smaller impact than those that don’t get hired. So would these companies be better served by releasing their most brilliant developers into the wild and arming them with seed financing to start companies? (They could negotiate partial ownership and right of first refusal on acquisition.) We would certainly get more innovation this way.

    Simply put, if we are serious about lifting the economy out of its rut, we need to focus all of our energy on helping entrepreneurs. Provide them with the incentives (tax breaks and seed financing); education; and infrastructure. And gear public policy—like patent-protection laws—toward the startups. Let’s not bet on the companies that are too big to fail or too clumsy to innovate.

    Editor’s note: Guest writer Vivek Wadhwa is an entrepreneur turned academic. He is a Visiting Scholar at the School of Information at UC-Berkeley, Senior Research Associate at Harvard Law School and Director of Research at the Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization at Duke University. You can follow him on Twitter at @vwadhwa and find his research at www.wadhwa.com

  • #2
    Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

    Wonderful work in propaganda segmentation and dialectical slicing, aligning IP rights with the big behemoths, then spinning into we must support the little guy. Of course the behemoths will squash the little guy if the little guy can be suckered into giving up their property rights. It's interesting trying to watch them flip the argument.

    Up is Down, I guess when one looks at the world in the following manner...

    "Take desalination, in which GE is one of the largest players. GE has spent more than $4.1 billion to acquire its part of the desalination business. Yet a decade after commencing, they’re still nowhere close to making desalination affordable and sustainable. GE’s progress depends on the patents it owns. As of 2009, GE invented 47 of the 832 U.S. patents in this field—just 5.6%, or a little more than one-twentieth. Consider the progress that GE could make if it could also use any of the patents that it doesn’t own—of which there are many."

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/01/opp...ent-free-zone/

    "The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management."

    ~ Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:36
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

      Originally posted by reggie View Post
      Wonderful work in propaganda segmentation and dialectical slicing, aligning IP rights with the big behemoths, then spinning into we must support the little guy. Of course the behemoths will squash the little guy if the little guy can be suckered into giving up their property rights. It's interesting trying to watch them flip the argument.

      Up is Down, I guess when one looks at the world in the following manner...
      It is very simple, the independent inventor cannot obtain ANY finance UNLESS they give up their property rights. That has been the core problem for some decades.

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      • #4
        Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

        Originally posted by Chris Coles View Post
        It is very simple, the independent inventor cannot obtain ANY finance UNLESS they give up their property rights. That has been the core problem for some decades.
        Right, but now there is a push to abolish the concept of intellectual property ownership altogether in this open everything is the new cool. I just don't know how these media personalities can write this stuff with a straight face. It takes psychopathy to an entirely different level. Unfortunately, many young techies eat this stuff up alive, not understanding its ramifications.
        The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

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        • #5
          Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

          Right, but now there is a push to abolish the concept of intellectual property ownership altogether in this open everything is the new cool.
          I am sure IBM appreciates being termed the "new cool" because they are among the bigger contributors to Free and Open Source Software. And, I guess they are pretty cool. Funny thing is, they make as much or more on Open Source as they would on proprietary products.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

            Originally posted by ggirod View Post
            I am sure IBM appreciates being termed the "new cool" because they are among the bigger contributors to Free and Open Source Software. And, I guess they are pretty cool. Funny thing is, they make as much or more on Open Source as they would on proprietary products.
            But in IBM's case, they're making their own business decisions, which I presume they feel are in their best interest. As they are big boys, I assume they know what they are doing. But what the article in the OP seems to be advocating is a legislated, or forced, solution. If this dynamic is allowed to eventuate, then the little guy gets creamed.
            The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

              If this dynamic is allowed to eventuate, then the little guy gets creamed.
              Not long ago, as I was contemplating the conundrum we all faced, I thought about how one might survive in a world of behemoths. One young but particularly wise guy told me he was going to simply assure he was desirable to TPTB because the top 1% were in control. Humility settled over me like a blanket. Once in a while he does that ... other rare times I, with my advancing age, do the same to him :-)

              The bottom line is that all of us are somehow fooled into thinking we are not the "little guy", that our particular idea or concept is so very very special that we can aspire to greatness and finally join that 1 or 2% who really are in charge. The fact is, that given billions of people on this planet we are NOT VERY SPECIAL at all and we would be best served by recognizing that fact and protecting ourselves as best we can ... by sharing our output openly, keeping the rights to our work, and competing fairly with our peers. TPTB are not great engineers, programmers, or creative types at all ... they do have all the cookies and keep them close to themselves. They foolishly believe they can trade cookies for ideas and products ... in fact ... those who create ideas and products are better off to give them away once they realize the cookies are temporary and not really forthcoming anyway. The IDEA of the cookie, is much better than the one that is finally delivered after you fight for it .... You can only have your cake and eat it too if it is open and freely shared cake. Otherwise you sell your cake and hungrily watch TPTB eat it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                Originally posted by ggirod View Post
                how one might survive in a world of behemoths. One young but particularly wise guy told me he was going to simply assure he was desirable to TPTB because the top 1% were in control.
                .
                .
                .
                .
                You can only have your cake and eat it too if it is open and freely shared cake. Otherwise you sell your cake and hungrily watch TPTB eat it.
                That is the conundrum is it not? If "I" have a great idea -- and I look at the "great successes" like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Xerox -- "I" think why can't I become like them -- and what will get me to that goal -- that "little greed thing" sends me down the road to emulate "Doctor Faustus"
                Last edited by Rajiv; August 18, 2010, 08:38 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                  that "little greed thing" sends me down the road to emulate "Doctor Faustus"
                  Rajiv, thank you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                    Originally posted by ggirod View Post
                    Not long ago, as I was contemplating the conundrum we all faced, I thought about how one might survive in a world of behemoths. One young but particularly wise guy told me he was going to simply assure he was desirable to TPTB because the top 1% were in control. Humility settled over me like a blanket. Once in a while he does that ... other rare times I, with my advancing age, do the same to him :-)

                    The bottom line is that all of us are somehow fooled into thinking we are not the "little guy", that our particular idea or concept is so very very special that we can aspire to greatness and finally join that 1 or 2% who really are in charge. The fact is, that given billions of people on this planet we are NOT VERY SPECIAL at all and we would be best served by recognizing that fact and protecting ourselves as best we can ... by sharing our output openly, keeping the rights to our work, and competing fairly with our peers. TPTB are not great engineers, programmers, or creative types at all ... they do have all the cookies and keep them close to themselves. They foolishly believe they can trade cookies for ideas and products ... in fact ... those who create ideas and products are better off to give them away once they realize the cookies are temporary and not really forthcoming anyway. The IDEA of the cookie, is much better than the one that is finally delivered after you fight for it .... You can only have your cake and eat it too if it is open and freely shared cake. Otherwise you sell your cake and hungrily watch TPTB eat it.
                    If I understand you properly, then my response is that I will not capitulate to this dialectic (either we sell our IP to them and lose, or we give it away for free and lose...or somehow win).

                    Further, I'm not interested in selling my soul. I simply want to be able to direct the fruits of my labor and creativity. Either selling ones soul or giving away our self-direction seems to me to be a recipe for disaster. Why do either?

                    If I didn't interpret you post accurate, then I'd appreciate it if you can expand on how you see the giving away our IP as a win. I don't get that part, if that is what you are saying

                    Originally posted by Rajiv View Post
                    That is the conundrum is it not? If "I" have a great idea -- and I look at the "great successes" like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Xerox -- "I" think why can't I beome like them -- and what will get me to that goal -- that "little greed thing" sends me down the road to emulate "Doctor Faustus"
                    I'd actually say that's the Ponerization part (you wrote about this a few months ago in another post), which is a different set of psychological inputs, coming mostly from media, culture industries, and schooling industries. We can pursue wealth and ownership without greed, can we not?

                    I don't need to be Google, nor do I want to be. Centralization of that much power, even if in my hands, is antithetical to my being. And I submit, that it is still antithetical to many American's spirit. These tech companies are not good examples, as they are not what they appear to be, nor are their founders.
                    Last edited by reggie; August 18, 2010, 08:34 PM.
                    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                      If I didn't interpret you post accurate, then I'd appreciate it if you can expand on how you see the giving away our IP as a win. I don't get that part, if that is what you are saying
                      Far and away the most valuable software I've used was "given away", under Open Source licenses such as GPL, LGPL, and BSD, and far and away the most valuable software I've created I gave away, under similar terms.

                      See further Eric Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar for one well known explanation of how this works, for the common good of all.
                      Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                        I think you have me pegged about right, and I believe ggirod would agree with me, if I say that the issue is not about giving away IP or "Selling Out" to the highest bidder. But often it is about "How do I get this great idea into the hands of people who could use it, or would appreciate it?"

                        But it takes resources to take the idea from being a gleam in ones eyes to becoming a tangible object. It is really about how you are able to put the team together. It is in this great desire to get the idea to see the light of day, is when one sometimes makes the bargain with Mephistopheles.

                        Talking about IP and patents -- a well written defensible patent becomes quite expensive. Defending the patents are even more expensive.

                        In India, as opposed to the US, patents are valid only as long as you work them (in other words take action to bring them out as a product) if you don't, then the patent opens out to whoever can commercialize it. This too is a double edged sword -- but it holds to the original thought process behind granting patents. Patents basically move IP from secrecy to open daylight. In return a monopoly is granted for a limited time. This allows people to build on prior knowledge. In some ways, the very act of patenting is to open up your ideas to the world. However, if you have not brought out a product based on the IP, then over time , that reverts to open knowledge -- even if you don't utilize it, it prevents somebody else from monopolizing the idea.

                        A priori, the decks are loaded against the "small guy."

                        As far as the sociopaths, you always have to look out for those. The further up the food chain you go, the more likely you are to find them. Most of them are not truly "venal" but rather are amoral, and are opportunists. And one has to take steps to counter them.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                          The idea that a patent somehow protects the little guy is erroneous.

                          The example? FM Radio.

                          See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Howard_Armstrong

                          Sure, he won. After he died.

                          The problem with the patent system isn't its existence per se - it is the intervention of the lawyers compounded by its outdated time scale.

                          In the 18th century, a patent granted to an individual could be expected to pass into public domain in a generation - doubly so when life expectancies were rarely more than 15 years beyond a patent grant date.

                          Today in the corporate era - a corporation can keep a patent alive for decades (see pharmaceutical companies).

                          Secondly the time scale of a patent is fixed - but innovation and development varies wildly between fields.

                          A 20 year patent for software is ridiculous - it encompasses 10 generations or more of development whereas a manufacturing process patent might see 2.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                            Dean Baker on Patents -



                            It is remarkable that economists, who usually view themselves as advocates of free market transactions, unquestioningly embrace various forms of intellectual property rights, especially copyrights and patents. Copyrights and patents are government granted monopolies. They have their origins in the feudal guild system, not the free market economics of Smith and Ricardo. In fact, at the end of the 19th century, Switzerland and the Netherlands actually eliminated patent and copyright protection, with the intent of promoting free market competition. In spite of their feudal legacy, and their obvious status as forms of protectionism, few economists ever question the merits of the patent and copyright systems.

                            This paper details the ways in which patents in prescription drugs and medical equipment and copyrights lead to economic inefficiencies.1 It points out that the efficiency losses from these forms of protectionism are likely several orders of magnitude larger than the barriers to international trade that receive so much attention from economists.

                            The paper also outlines alternative systems for providing incentives for innovation and creative artistic work. In the absence of deliberate government policy, there probably would be under-investment in innovation and creative work, but that is not the relevant question. The relevant question is whether the existing patent and copyright systems are the most efficient mechanisms for supporting innovation and creative work. That would be the question that any honest economist would pose.

                            The Inefficiency of Drug Patents and Copyrights

                            The basic argument for patents and copyrights is straightforward. In a free market, without protections for intellectual property, there will be under-investment in research and creative activity like writing or recorded music or movies. As soon as an innovation is made public, others could duplicate the process and sell a comparable product, without having to bear the costs of the research that allowed for the innovation. In the case of recorded music or movies, copies can be made at minimal cost (zero cost in the Internet Age), which means that in a free market, the original producers could not sell the products at a high enough price to allow the creative workers to be compensated for their work. However, the fact that a free market will under-invest in research and creative work hardly establishes that the feudal institutions of patents and copyrights are the most efficient way to support such work in the 21st century.

                            The economics profession has devoted vast amount of research and textbook space to proving the inefficiency of various forms of protectionism. The basic story in this work is that protectionism causes the price to exceed the marginal cost of production. All of this work is entirely applicable to patents and copyrights, except the impact is at least an order of magnitude larger than with most instances of protectionism in international trade. While tariffs and quotas rarely raise the price of goods by more than 30 or 40 percent, patents on prescription drugs typically raise the price of protected products by 300 to 400 percent, or more, above the marginal cost. In some cases, patent protected drugs sell for hundreds or thousands of times as much as the competitive market price. In the case of copyrighted material, recorded music and video material that could be transferred at zero cost over the Internet, instead command a substantial price when sold as CDs, DVDs, or licensed downloads. Copyrighted software commands even higher prices.

                            The distortions resulting from these huge gaps between price and marginal cost should cause an honest neo-classical economist great pain. At the onset, the lost consumer surplus from patent and copyright protected pricing is enormous. The basic rule on this issue is that the size of the deadweight loss is proportional to the square of the gap between price and marginal cost. The United States alone is projected to spend $210 billion this year on prescription drugs. In the absence of patent protection, the same drugs would probably cost no more than $50 billion. (The savings would be equal to $500 per person for everyone in the country.) The United States will spend more than $30 billion on recorded music and videos this year, material that could be available at zero cost on the Internet. By comparison, many economists felt the need to comment on the NAFTA agreement in 1993 that reduced tariff barriers on imports from Mexico. At the time, U.S. imports from Mexico were less than $40 billion a year, and the average tariff was already less than 5 percent.

                            Of course the deadweight losses are just the beginning of the story. As the textbooks tell us, monopoly profits encourage all sorts of anti-social rent-seeking behavior, activities that we see in abundance in the case of both patent and copyright protection.

                            Starting with drug patents, the newspapers are filled with stories about concealed or distorted research findings by pharmaceutical companies who are trying to exaggerate the benefits, or minimize the risks, associated with their drugs. The corruption from companies pursuing monopoly rents permeates the research process. Medical journals routinely receive and publish ghost written articles, where prominent researchers have been paid by the industry to lend their names to company authored papers. In the same vein, the medical experts who provide guidance to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on drug safety are often receiving payments from the manufacturers of the drugs they are evaluating.

                            The sales effort to doctors is similarly corrupted by the pursuit of monopoly profits. According to the industry own data, more people are employed in sales than in research, as the industry relies on an army of salespeople to push its latest blockbuster drugs to doctors. Often this sales effort involves dinners, trips to resorts, and sometimes even outright kickbacks – all ways in which drug companies share a portion of the monopoly profit that they earn by selling drugs at patent protected prices.

                            Monopoly profits also distort the direction of research. According to the FDA's classification system, roughly 70 percent of new drug approvals are for drugs that do not represent qualitative improvements over existing drugs. While there is little social purpose served by developing these duplicative drugs in most instances, patent monopolies can make the development of copycat drugs very profitable. A copycat drug can allow a firm to cash in on a portion of the profits earned by a competitor on a blockbuster drug. In a world with patents, the introduction of a second drug in the market will have the beneficial effect of lowering prices to some extent (there is more competition with two drugs than one drug), however if drugs were sold in a competitive market, there would be little reason to pursue the development of most copycat drugs. The fact that most new drugs fall in this copycat category suggests that a very large share, possible a majority, of patent supported research is wasted.2

                            Drug patents also distort the direction of research by pushing it in the direction of patentable results. Research directed at finding cures or treatments based on diet, exercise, or environmental factors will not be pursued in a health care system that relies exclusively on patent monopolies to finance research. This neglect can be offset by government funding targeted specifically towards these areas, but the patent system will direct resources elsewhere.

                            Finally, the granting of patent monopolies will lead to the development of a gray market, in which unauthorized versions of patented drugs are sold. The large gap between the patent protected price and the marginal cost of production creates opportunities for profit in the same way that the high price of illegal drugs like cocaine and heroin create opportunities for profit. Since these unauthorized drugs will be sold outside of regulatory oversight (except when they are imported from countries with well-developed regulatory systems, like Canada), there will be limited quality control. Unauthorized drugs are likely to be less effective than the patented drug, and possibly even harmful. In either case, the health outcome is far from optimal.

                            To sum up, there are a long set of complaints against the inefficiencies associated with drug patents, all of which should jump out of any introductory textbook treatment of protectionism in international trade. Yet, the economic profession has been virtually silent on the inefficiencies associated with drug patents.
                            He also suggests alternatives to patents/copyrights in the paper.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Startups Or Behemoths: Which Are We Going To Bet On?

                              William Kingston in his excellent book; INNOVATION, The Creative Impulse in Human Progress, sets out a very detailed debate about the origins and discovery of our modern antibiotics and in so doing, sets out a wonderfully detailed explanation of the different attitudes of each of us towards the process of discovery, invention and innovation.

                              The problem is not patents per se, it is the funding, or, to be more precise, the lack of funding for competing products, that is so hampering the present economic system. So in almost every respect, I totally disagree with the above paper.

                              What we have today is a financial system that is entirely feudal and which; while purporting to be free, is exactly the opposite. An inventor is faced with roughly one of three choices. Most usually get to a point where a minimal start has been made to exploit and they meet with Venture Capital that has one aiming point; to bring their technology to market so that it may be sold to the highest bidder in as short a timescale as possible. You will see this with the frequent use of the phrase, "Exit Strategy". The inventors, almost always are marginalised or thrown out. The very best example being the original founders of Cisco. The Intel's, Qualcomm's or Cisco's of the world thrive in such a system as they are never forced to compete for the very simple reason they can sit still and all the very best competition will arrive at their door for them to purchase. That is as anti-competition, as it is possible to get; yet that is the reality of it. PERIOD.

                              The second option is to try and struggle on without funding. That option leads to the inventor having to live a life of penury. I wonder if the average "economist" would like to live without any income.........? For that is the option that is delivered in the paper. He seems to think we can have a working economy without income from our use of our intelligence. I am forced to ask; which planet is he on? All I sense is that he must be at least one slice short of a sandwich between his ears....

                              But the third option is perhaps the worst. If they hold very strong patents that threaten existing industry, and they refuse to take the feudal option delivered by venture capital, they are ignored. I am reminded of a face to face meeting in the Pentagon with the Assistant Secretary of State for Research Development and Acquisition for the American Army, "Yes, Mr. Coles, we are infringing, but we are going to ignore you!" Said I must add with a broad smile. My patent agent retorted; "Chris, they cannot do that!", but he never once offered to write a letter to bring the retort he made into any form of action. In fact, no attorney in the US will ever take on the government. But, from that moment forward.The word gets out not to deal with them; major federal institutions refuse to abide by their statutory duties and refuse to answer letters; why, even the body responsible for the law itself ignores you and no funds every come forward to help. It is a VERY well known fact that the individual private inventor has almost no chance at all of properly exploiting their invention in todays financial and regulatory environment. So to claim that it is the patent or copyright that is the limiting factor in our economic woes only demonstrates that the author is totally uneducated in the facts. He lives in some wonder world where no one needs an income and everything is the fault of the individual granted what are today, worthless rights.

                              Give me strength!
                              Last edited by Chris Coles; August 20, 2010, 08:02 AM. Reason: spelling plus added the word Assistant

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