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  • Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

    (10/23/2009)
    Debra Kahn, E&E reporter

    SAN FRANCISCO -- A leading Chinese industrialist called yesterday for worldwide population constraints and an end to government-sponsored consumerism as solutions to climate change and other environmental issues.

    Speaking at a conference put on by Business for Social Responsibility (BSR), a group that helps businesses institute environment and social sustainability programs, Zhang Yue, chairman and CEO of Broad Air Conditioning, also said governments should stop stimulating the economy by appealing to consumers' sense of patriotism.

    "Encouraging folks to have kids is an encouragement to have more and more markets to buy more stuff," Zhang said through an interpreter. "Some people say it's a human rights issue [to control birth rates]: 'My right to have kids is tied to my quality of life.' I say it'll take us in a direction that you have no right to take us in."

    The issue of population control has made headlines in recent days, with conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh attacking New York Times reporter Andrew Revkin for speculating that birth control could be used to limit greenhouse gas emissions (Greenwire, Oct. 21).

    Zhang said China's one-child policy should be emulated around the world, calling population growth "humankind's first big problem."

    "We haven't connected population to environmental protection yet in China," Zhang said. Doing so would make clear the connection between population growth and greenhouse gas emissions, as well as the issue of dealing with an aging populace, he said. "In the next two-three decades we've got to come down to a one-child policy. Only through population control can we really address some of these major issues."

    Zhang, who has been listed by Forbes as one of the 100 richest businesspeople in China, also said businesses and government need to slow down development or risk catastrophic climate change.

    "The planet right now is in some ways an equation that can't continue," he said. "We'll become extinct." Although Broad sells air conditioners in 40 countries, the company is prioritizing higher salaries over expansion, he said. "Our company isn't growing as fast as others, but we haven't had a loan from the bank in 15 years."

    Zhang said governments, particularly the Chinese, should stop exhorting consumers to fix the economic downturn by shopping more.

    "Countries are misguiding the public and driving consumption," Zhang said. "We've tied consuming to patriotism almost in China, and it's a very dangerous concept, a dangerous attitude to give the public.

    "There's no financial crisis really in China, but we use it as an excuse to get people to buy stuff," he added. "Even people in the countryside who don't have electricity are being encouraged to buy refrigerators."

    In response to a question about correlating economic growth with happiness, he said it was not so: "The more you develop economically, the worse the food is. Seventy percent of the antibiotics in the United States are used for livestock."

  • #2
    Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

    Originally posted by KGW View Post
    (10/23/2009)
    Zhang said governments, particularly the Chinese, should stop exhorting consumers to fix the economic downturn by shopping more.

    "Countries are misguiding the public and driving consumption," Zhang said. "We've tied consuming to patriotism almost in China, and it's a very dangerous concept, a dangerous attitude to give the public.

    "There's no financial crisis really in China, but we use it as an excuse to get people to buy stuff," he added. "Even people in the countryside who don't have electricity are being encouraged to buy refrigerators."

    In response to a question about correlating economic growth with happiness, he said it was not so: "The more you develop economically, the worse the food is. Seventy percent of the antibiotics in the United States are used for livestock."
    The american model of economics, endless unsustainable consumerism. Seems to be the model currently propagated in china too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

      Originally posted by chr5648 View Post
      The american model of economics, endless unsustainable consumerism. Seems to be the model currently propagated in china too.
      I suggest we start our downward turn away from "unsustainable consumerism" by curtailing our endless consumption of propaganda objects being manufactured and distributed by DC Think Tanks, Manhattan Advertising Firms, Hollywood studios and Silicon Valley technologists.

      PS. The only link I could find to this story was at:
      http://www.fuckbankers.com/?p=151174

      Is this the original source?
      The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

        Originally posted by reggie View Post
        Is this the original source?
        Behind a paywall - BUSINESS: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

          Originally posted by reggie View Post
          IPS. The only link I could find to this story was at:
          http://www.fuckbankers.com/?p=151174

          Is this the original source?
          I found a YouTube video of parts of what I guess (I didn't watch it) is this speech at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynwll5RkR_M
          Most folks are good; a few aren't.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

            Do you have something useful to say? Besides the patently obvious? Or is the status quo your favorite place? Pardon me if I sound rude, but the little I have heard from you seems to be in the style of a government provocateur. . .


            Originally posted by reggie View Post
            I suggest we start our downward turn away from "unsustainable consumerism" by curtailing our endless consumption of propaganda objects being manufactured and distributed by DC Think Tanks, Manhattan Advertising Firms, Hollywood studios and Silicon Valley technologists.

            PS. The only link I could find to this story was at:
            http://www.fuckbankers.com/?p=151174

            Is this the original source?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

              Originally posted by KGW View Post
              Do you have something useful to say? Besides the patently obvious? Or is the status quo your favorite place? Pardon me if I sound rude, but the little I have heard from you seems to be in the style of a government provocateur. . .
              First, perhaps I am just naive, but I'm not sure I know what a "government provocateur" is. You're going to have to help me on that one.

              Second, maybe you can explain to me what topic areas are already thoroughly understood by members here so that I won't rehash that territory.

              Third, if you do not like my posts I believe that you can employ the 'ignore' feature that vBulletin (the forum software in use here) incorporates, as that will hide all my posts from your view when you are logged-in.
              The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                Originally posted by KGW View Post
                Do you have something useful to say? Besides the patently obvious? Or is the status quo your favorite place? Pardon me if I sound rude, but the little I have heard from you seems to be in the style of a government provocateur. . .
                reggie's posts seem provocative to me as well. I enjoyed your use of that word.

                However what he posts, and to what purpose(s), are less obvious to me.

                I have him on my "ignore" list, as he suggested we consider, but I still click through to read his posts, intrigued and puzzled.
                Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                  Originally posted by KGW View Post
                  In response to a question about correlating economic growth with happiness, he said it was not so: "The more you develop economically, the worse the food is. Seventy percent of the antibiotics in the United States are used for livestock."
                  The Chinese are commonly considered a practical people, and equating the quality of food with happiness seems very Chinese to me. . . .

                  The reason that 75% of antibiotics go to livestock production is because the conditions in which the animals are raised are disease-producing, and if they didn't receive routine prophylactic antibiotics they would sicken and die. Without drugs, the whole production system would collapse.

                  Grass is the natural food of most livestock, yet to enhance profits they are fed grain, soybeans, ground up newspapers, and believe it or not manure. Overcrowding is another disease-producing factor. No wonder these animals need antibiotics to reach slaughter age.

                  How is this dismal situation related to human happiness? I can't speak for the Chinese CEO, but in my opinion the quality of the meat produced from inferior animals is inferior . . . both in taste and health-producing qualities. Eating is one of the great pleasures in life, and feeling healthy another, so I can easily understand why this Chinese CEO would associate good food with happiness . . . .
                  raja
                  Boycott Big Banks • Vote Out Incumbents

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                    Originally posted by KGW View Post
                    In response to a question about correlating economic growth with happiness, he said it was not so: "The more you develop economically, the worse the food is."


                    The food in Japan is very good (not to mention healthier) even though Japan is more developed than the USA. The food in more developed parts of China such as Shanghai is better than in the remote areas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                      I suspect the speaker is referring to the mass market due to overpopulation.


                      Originally posted by touchring View Post
                      The food in Japan is very good even though Japan is more developed than the USA. The food in more developed parts of China such as Shanghai is better than in the remote areas.

                      Good food is expensive, vegetables and real meat are expensive. Man made meat used in hamburgers are much cheaper.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Aussie Premier also speaks to population growth. . .

                        Despite the headline being about the mining tax, the article is focused on population.

                        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...-tax-plan.html



                        Julia Gillard, who last week replaced Kevin Rudd as Australian prime minister, may move to slow Australia’s population growth amid concerns about failing infrastructure and the nation’s environment.
                        “The change of direction is to put front and center the sustainability issues,” Gillard said in an interview with the Nine television network today “There are environmental issues about water and about soil. But there are also sustainability issues about planning, about services.”
                        Gillard has distanced herself from some of Rudd’s policies since gaining the role unopposed in a Labor party-room ballot on June 24. The 48-year-old Wales-born lawyer already revisited two of Rudd’s most unpopular decisions by reconsidering a carbon- trading system shelved in April and agreeing to negotiate with the mining industry on a proposed tax increase.
                        Rudd had said he advocated a “big Australia” amid government projections for the population to rise to 36 million by 2050 from 22 million now. Gillard, like her predecessor, hasn’t nominated an optimal population target.
                        The Urban Taskforce, a lobby group that represents property developers, said any slowing may affect economic growth in a country that avoided the global recession.
                        “Any reduction to our nation’s rate of population growth puts at risk the very things that have made Australia what it is today,” Taskforce Chief Executive Officer Aaron Gadiel said in e-mailed comments today. “As our population ages, without a strong immigration program we can expect significant labor shortages in key parts of our economy, including major capital cities.”
                        ‘Right’ Migrants
                        Gillard said any policy must focus on the “right” kind of migrants, including those that fill skills shortages. Australia’s population has more than tripled since 1945 with more than 900,000 immigrants arriving in the past decade, according to data from the Department of Immigration & Citizenship
                        “We will still have an approach about getting the migration settings right, about meeting our needs for skilled labor, but I also want to see us do it sustainably,” the prime minister said. “I hope people would conclude my parents were the right kind of migrants.”
                        The country will continue to intercept asylum seekers who attempt to reach the Australian mainland in unauthorized boats, and detain them until their claims can be processed.
                        “I believe in doing the effective things to manage our borders,” she said. “I also believe this nation needs to honor its obligations to people who are genuine refugees, and honor what I think is an Australian value about care and concern for children.”
                        Balance of Power
                        The Greens party, whose support in the Senate can help pass government legislation over opposition objections, said any policy change shouldn’t ‘demonize” asylum seekers.
                        “Australia needs a sustainable population determined by our infrastructure and environmental capacity,” Greens leader Senator Bob Brown said in an e-mailed statement. “Asylum seekers make up a tiny fraction of overall immigration levels, and it is the other 90 percent plus of immigration that debate should focus on.”
                        Since taking on the top role, after 2 1/2 years as Rudd’s deputy, Gillard has given Labor an election-winning lead over the opposition Liberal-National party coalition led by Tony Abbott.
                        In her first speech as Prime Minister, Gillard said the government would scrap its mining tax advertising and start “genuine” negotiations with miners on resolving their objections, calling on the industry to do the same.
                        “In an act of good will they have. I think that’s given us a terrific foundation to now have the genuine negotiations we need to get to a conclusion here,” Gillard said today. “I think I took a big step forward for goodwill and respect in the discussion about the mining tax.”
                        Gillard, who can decide when the election will be held, this week said a poll will come before the end of 2010.
                        “I’m indicating a different approach,” Gillard said. “I don’t want employers telling me that they can’t get the workers they need, when in some parts of this country, we have got youth unemployment in double digits.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                          Originally posted by raja View Post
                          The Chinese are commonly considered a practical people, and equating the quality of food with happiness seems very Chinese to me. . . .

                          The reason that 75% of antibiotics go to livestock production is because the conditions in which the animals are raised are disease-producing, and if they didn't receive routine prophylactic antibiotics they would sicken and die. Without drugs, the whole production system would collapse.

                          Grass is the natural food of most livestock, yet to enhance profits they are fed grain, soybeans, ground up newspapers, and believe it or not manure. Overcrowding is another disease-producing factor. No wonder these animals need antibiotics to reach slaughter age.

                          How is this dismal situation related to human happiness? I can't speak for the Chinese CEO, but in my opinion the quality of the meat produced from inferior animals is inferior . . . both in taste and health-producing qualities. Eating is one of the great pleasures in life, and feeling healthy another, so I can easily understand why this Chinese CEO would associate good food with happiness . . . .
                          What is not discussed here is the assumption that population growth is directly correlated to food quality decline. This is a manufactured correlation... a dialectic being used to drive a conclusion that's been pushed on the public for quite some time. All one has to do is refer to the Club of Rome's propaganda of the 70's if they want a recent example of this narrative.

                          By the way, the fact that a Chinese national gets away with talk like this on US soil is astounding. You know, it wasn't that long ago that words like this would have been taken as hostile. Now, we engage the frame, and try to assess the logic with some level of reasonableness and seriousness. This frame that people are in is not healthy, and quite frankly, more than scary. Yet, people here are questioning my motives. Unbelievable.

                          But to the OP, if you're going to accuse me of posting unoriginal material, then the least you could do is not post a rehash of think tank propaganda that's been on the agenda of at least the last 100 years.
                          The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge ~D Boorstin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                            Originally posted by reggie
                            Yet, people here are questioning my motives. Unbelievable.
                            Well, yes, but ...

                            I'll grant that I've been one of those wondering if your motives were less than honorable.

                            On the other hand, I would hope that you'd grant that you have chosen to exercise considerable discretion in exposing your motives.

                            Such discretion can lead, even in ordinary human discourse, to skepticism amongst recent acquaintances, especially when offering a perspective outside of the listeners current framework.

                            I look forward to more of your posts.
                            Most folks are good; a few aren't.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Chinese exec calls for limiting population, consumption

                              Originally posted by KGW View Post
                              (10/23/2009)
                              Zhang said China's one-child policy should be emulated around the world, calling population growth "humankind's first big problem."
                              Are you sure this wasn't a disguised Jim Nickerson speaking?

                              Comment

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