Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

[blazespinnaker]

This news truly frightens me.

http://www.allfacebook.com/2010/06/c...eath-sentence/

"Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg could be in hot water over a “Draw Muhammad” contest hosted on the site last month. He is being investigated by Pakistani authorities under a section of the penal code that makes blasphemy against Muhammad punishable by death."

If I was Zuckerberg, no freaking way would I travel the world without bodyguards now.

Pakistan is trying to create a chilling effect on corporations the world around to quash the rights of free speech.

The internet has created an open line of communication between our cultures that is starting to be very very scary.


I have a hard time seeing Obama HUSSEIN Barack telling people to back down when it comes to drawing or saying what they want to say. Could you imagine? The outcry would be enormous and people would say that he is going against the fundamental principles of the Constitution. That he really is a closet Muslim.

Unfortunately, it's obvious that Muslims take this sort of stuff damn seriously and might just go to war, or at the very least, create great sympathy amongst terrorists who are extreme in this sort of thing.

And as the Muslims complain more, I can see more people wanting to exercise their free speech even more to show that they're not afraid. "Draw Muhammad" websites all over the place .. Anywhere any kind of user content is allowed, there will be an attempt to show that we aren't afraid.

In the west, we have a very deep tradition of free speech .. We could even end up going to war to defend that right.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

He is being investigated by Pakistani authorities under a section of the penal code that makes blasphemy against Muhammad punishable by death."

I smell an Anglo-Pakistani Intelligence operation to stir up conflict, distrust and dissension.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

I smell an Anglo-Pakistani Intelligence operation to stir up conflict, distrust and dissension.

I'm not sure you need an intelligence agency to draw cartoons or parody religious figures.

There are millions of people on the internet who want their life to mean something and drawing cartoon figures of Muslim prophets probably seems like an easy way to do that.

It's also an "I am Spartacus" moment as well as people show their support for South Park (and others) and the censorship they went through.

And even if it is a provocateur .. Why does it need to be pakistani? Why not just some christian right nut cases who thinks the Muslim religion is evil and are trying to start something.

At the heart of all this though, is two cultures that are fundamentally at odds are being thrust together via the internet.

Until I saw this Pakistani thing, I thought we could resolve it peacefully. I'm much more doubtful about this.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

At the heart of all this though, is two cultures that are fundamentally at odds are being thrust together via the internet.

I'm looking at this in a very different way, blaze.

I'm suggesting that there is not some fundamental conflict that we probably cannot resolve peacefully.

I'm suggesting that "intelligence" agents are inflaming this conflict into something quite a bit bigger than it naturally would have been.

[Master Shake]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

Here's a good one, sure to stir things up.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

Here's a good one, sure to stir things up.

img cut .. because while I believe in free speech I don't think it makes sense to upset Muslims for no reason other than the fact to prove that we can

Yeah, and so, you see my point Pythonic Cow?

Given what we've seen, I am starting to believe that Muslims actually take this sort of thing very seriously.

And as you can see by the above, we in the west do not.

How do you see this being resolved peacefully?

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

How do you see this being resolved peacefully?

I don't.
I was just quibbling over whom to blame for the next war .

[Chris Coles]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

I don't.
I was just quibbling over whom to blame for the next war .

No one in their right mind can say the picture is not insulting to one group or another. Personally I find it deeply disturbing and not what I want to see here on iTulip. Such images, taken in what one might describe as an alternative context, (hate instead of laughter), can quickly become reasons for war.

[FrankL]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

No one in their right mind can say the picture is not insulting to one group or another. Personally I find it deeply disturbing and not what I want to see here on iTulip. Such images, taken in what one might describe as an alternative context, (hate instead of laughter), can quickly become reasons for war.

Warning: long rant ahead

Images that poke fun at religion used to be offensive as well when targeted at Christianity (and still are offensive to some); western nations have a rich history of satire of religion, as it is a means of showing the hypocrisy in the lack of relativism by some supporters of institutionalised religion.

I think the issue at hand is that western nations allowed immigration of many people from different cultures without establishing assimilation (especially in north-western Europe). Many religions immigrants are not familiar with the western values and do not accept them when they are confronted with them (especially not when they're insulting to them). Relativism and self-criticism are signs of maturity (of ones religious beliefs). What cartoons, such as the above one, do is show that for many muslims this state has not been reached yet. However, posting these cartoons most likely do not help to reach that goal, as they're imposed by outsiders for starters. What they will do, is make people in western countries aware that values that they take for granted are not necessarily accepted by some of their fellow-citizen. This at least increases the awareness of what's going on in the society you live in.

The political correctness beliefs that has been among many in western nations for the past decades feverishly fights agianst any element in society that can be considered to be 'insulting', and seeks to ban them. What they do not seem to realise is that rather than fix the cause of an issue they ban any symptoms of these problems pretending they'll just go away if you close your eyes. While imposing your own values onto others is insulting, it is also an essential part of defending your own way of life and guaranteeing its success for continued existance. Political correctness is a one-way ticket to erosion of values, being replaced by values of people who do not suffer form the disease of political correctness and aren't afraid to impose them onto others (in this example their right not to be insulted).

The case of insulting/being insulted should be a matter of manners and thickness of the skin, not one of imposed morality or worse, laws (smell the irony of this sentence).

[Master Shake]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

I think the issue at hand is that western nations allowed immigration of many people from different cultures without establishing assimilation (especially in north-western Europe).

Bingo!

[Minion]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

Greetings.

There are absolutes in all the observable universe, though they are all dependent on frames of reference. Gravity, for example (must be viewed in an inertial, not accelerating reference frame).

And in human life, outflowing concern for the people around us with proper wisdom creates peace. Outgoing attempts to provoke anger does the opposite.

What could possibly be anyone's motivation to provoke Muslims to anger? Is there anything to gain?

Stated another way, can we really know how to create peace on earth with warped value system that puts personal pride over concern for our neighbors?

[Ghent12]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

Such a curious event! Will a backwards and completely insane culture go to war for absurd reasons? Possibly. Wars are fought for plenty of absurd notions.

[Chris Coles]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

The case of insulting/being insulted should be a matter of manners and thickness of the skin, not one of imposed morality or worse, laws (smell the irony of this sentence).

I was not insulted, nor do I see the image as against any form of correctness, political or otherwise; I simply did not like to look at it and said so.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

I'm insulted as well and I find the picture very offensive.

HOWEVER .. I would go to war to defend someone's right to post that sort of picture.

Regardless, the first amendment of the constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]"

It's one people take very very seriously.

Google just torpedo'ed their whole business in China over the issue of Censorship.

[Master Shake]

Re: Will "draw Muhammad" contest unleash mass terrorism and possibly war?

I'm insulted as well and I find the picture very offensive.

HOWEVER .. I would go to war to defend someone's right to post that sort of picture.

Regardless, the first amendment of the constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]"

It's one people take very very seriously.

It is an offensive picture (Note: I found it, didn't draw it). However, it is a historical fact that the Prophet consumated his "marriage" to his child bride Aisha when she was 9 years old. That makes him a pedophile.

If you are familiar with the Koran, especially the Medinan suras which abrogate the more peaceful and ecumenical Mecca ones, you could legitimately say that he was a trecherous, violent sociopath as well.