25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

[marvenger]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

bingo. if you've got a problem with consequences of self interested short term speculation with no regard for public interest allowed by a banks with licence to print and get paid by printing, have a look at hedge funds. There aren't that many of them coz not that many are sociopaths with no regards for others.

[GRG55]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Yes you did! By not understanding the structure and the instruments of the structure which the hedge funds use to get their returns. How can hedge funds achieve the degree of leverage that they have? In other words who lends them the money? It is the banks. The TBTF banks are inextricably involved directly with the activities of each and every hedge fund.

bingo. if you've got a problem with consequences of self interested short term speculation with no regard for public interest allowed by a banks with licence to print and get paid by printing, have a look at hedge funds. There aren't that many of them coz not that many are sociopaths with no regards for others.

The banks are inextricably involved directly with the activities of most property purchasers also. Does that make every mortgage holder who bought a building using leverage a sociopath?

The banks are the enablers...and that is where both the problem lies and where the solutions need to be directed.

Like any profession the cohort is composed of a very few excellent hedge fund managers, a large number that set the average, and a few [maybe a fat tail few] that are not worthy of the title [John Meriwether comes to mind]...but the same can be said of the medical profession, engineers, dentists, lawyers and a host of others...

I'll make the point once again...it was hedge fund managers like Bill Fleckenstein that were publicly sounding the warning about Greenspan's housing bubble even before EJ brought iTulip back on-line.

The condemnation here of the entire population is both unseemly and unwarranted.

[marvenger]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

The banks are the enablers...and that is where both the problem lies and where the solutions need to be directed.



I'll make the point once again...it was hedge fund managers like Bill Fleckenstein that were publicly sounding the warning about Greenspan's housing bubble even before EJ brought iTulip back on-line.

I agree, but out aim wasn't to say all fund managers are evil. Our aim was to say there is a lot of disgusting activity, a lot it legal but disgusting nonetheless, that goes on in an industry called the hedge fund industry.

I agree you have to sort out the banks first, the hedge funds are symptoms of the banks. That doesn't mean many of them aren't sociopaths though.

[jpatter666]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

I agree, but out aim wasn't to say all fund managers are evil. Our aim was to say there is a lot of disgusting activity, a lot it legal but disgusting nonetheless, that goes on in an industry called the hedge fund industry.

I agree you have to sort out the banks first, the hedge funds are symptoms of the banks. That doesn't mean many of them aren't sociopaths though.

There's lots of disgusting activity, lots of it legal but disgusting nonetheless, that goes on in an industry called the legal profession.

And politics.

And the medical profession.

Shall we continue? Maybe just put them all against the wall. :eek:

I do not agree that most hedge fund types are sociopaths. They don't meet the definition for one thing (look it up in Wikipedia if you like).

If you'd like to read a hedge fund manager's comments on things directly, Cliff Asness maintains a blog.

http://www.stumblingontruth.com/#

Might I suggest the "Unafraid in Greenwich CT" posting to start.

(note: not agreeing with everything he says, Asness sometimes shoots his mouth off, but he is no sociopath....that's just ridiculous)

[BK]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Without Hedge Funds and Banker Incomes the Pay Scales for Teachers in the New Jersey/New York Metro Areas would have to fall dramatically.

I'll make the unpopular observation that Hedge Fund Managers /including FIRE Industry Wages allow Teachers, Firefighters. Police men, and all Municipal Employees of Metro New York/New Jersey to be OVERPAID. Society Needs lots of Teachers and Society Can't function if teachers are overpaid. So many Communities are on the Brink of Insolvencey because of Contracts that Over pay Teachers and all Municipal Employees. The Teachers Union is very happy to Have Hedge Fund Managers(and Hedge Fund Employees) in Living in their School Districts and driving up the cost of Real Estate (and Property Tax Revenues). The Money that flows from Hedge Fund Managers and Employees is another driver for high Real Estate Prices and has allowed Teachers Unions to get consistent Benefit and Pay increases for the past 25 years.

Sadly, the whole system is fundamentally flawed and only works until it Stops-working.

When will our Society realize that Parents are the Crucial element of a high performing Student and Not Teachers.

[Raz]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Without Hedge Funds and Banker Incomes the Pay Scales for Teachers in the New Jersey/New York Metro Areas would have to fall dramatically.

I'll make the unpopular observation that Hedge Fund Managers /including FIRE Industry Wages allow Teachers, Firefighters. Police men, and all Municipal Employees of Metro New York/New Jersey to be OVERPAID. Society Needs lots of Teachers and Society Can't function if teachers are overpaid. So many Communities are on the Brink of Insolvencey because of Contracts that Over pay Teachers and all Municipal Employees. The Teachers Union is very happy to Have Hedge Fund Managers(and Hedge Fund Employees) in Living in their School Districts and driving up the cost of Real Estate (and Property Tax Revenues). The Money that flows from Hedge Fund Managers and Employees is another driver for high Real Estate Prices and has allowed Teachers Unions to get consistent Benefit and Pay increases for the past 25 years.

Sadly, the whole system is fundamentally flawed and only works until it Stops-working.

When will our Society realize that Parents are the Crucial element of a high performing Student and Not Teachers.

As the husband of a schoolteacher who puts in on average about 53 hours each week of the 38 weeks she works each year
I can state with absolute certainty that this statement about parental involvement is true.
My wife is expected to be a records clerk, social worker, public relations liason, tutor, parental punching bag, and foot-servant for administrators.
She earns about $60,000+ in my opinion - but is only paid $43,900 per year. (She's not in it for the money!)

The whole system is fundamentally flawed, indeed. And attacking the hedge fund industry to the exclusion of others is silly.
How many pro basketball players are worth 680,000 teachers?:rolleyes: Rap "artists"?

I agree that many of these guys are egotistical and greedy to an extreme but this article is more of an emotional rant than an examination of what's wrong with the entire system.

[Rajiv]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

I think the aim of the article was more along the lines of what is stated here - Wealth Disparities in U.S. Approaching 1920s Levels

This graph was an eye opener for me (not that I should be surprised):


My Take:

What a time to be an oligarch! All I wanted to do was vomit when I saw this.

Folks, there is no way we can have economic prosperity in this country when the top 1% has all of the money. The middle class is basically being destroyed right in front of our very eyes. Consumption economies die when the consumers have no money to consume!

I see growing signs of desperation and anger as the wealth of this nation continues to get transferred to the elite of this nation.

People are starting to "lose" it as a result. This past week's airplane event in Austin was a disturbing development. I must admit that I really am not surprised. The government shouldn't be either.

Things are only going to get worse in the violence department as the taxpayers continue to get violated and more desperate as a result of this economic cataststrophe. The news media tried to downplay the actions in Austin.

I think Washington was both surprised and concerned about what took place in Texas.

I have to ask: Should the government really be surpised that an American flew a plane into an IRS building in a fit of rage as we all get repeatedly fleeced by the political and social elites of this country?

Let me preface all of this by saying violence is not the answer here. However, why shouldn't every American be infuriated by what has ocurred since this crisis began?

All the government has done is bail out Wall St. continuously since 2008. My guess is the disparity of wealth in this chart would look even worse if it included 2009. The rest of America has basically been ignored minus a few housing programs to help lower mortgage payments.

That's what's been so frustrating about this whole crisis and America is finally starting to get it. Just about ALL of the steps that have been taken by the government to help fix this crisis have involved throwing more and more money to the financial elites of this country. I mean, the examples are endless: TARP, AIG, Bank of America (BAC), Citi (C), Freddie (FRE), Fannie (FNM)....Need I say more?
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I think that the hedge fund managers were used as an example of the people who have been compensated excessively.

Based on the graph above, a strong case could be made to going back to the tax structure that existed in the late 60's and early 70's adjusted for Shadowstats inflation. The data above is based on the work of Emmanuel Saez.

Also talking of Overpaid atheletes, there was this paper from Saez - "Taxation and International Mobility of Superstars: Evidence from the European Football Market" with Henrik Kleven and Camille Landais, first draft December 2009

Abstract

This paper analyzes the effects of top earnings tax rates on the migration decisions of football players across European countries. We construct a panel data set of top earnings tax rates and football players in the first leagues of 14 European countries since 1980. We identify the effects of top earnings tax rates on migration using various tax and institutional changes: (a) the 1995 Bosman ruling which liberalized the European football market, (b) top tax rate reforms within countries, and (c) country specific tax provisions offering lower tax rates for immigrant football players. We provide both case study analyzes and a structural mobility model estimated using all the data and sources of variation simultaneously. Both approaches show that the level of top earnings tax rates has a large and significant impact on the migration decisions of football players, especially after the 1995 Bosman ruling. Specific tax reductions for immigrants also have large impacts on location decisions with an elasticity of the probability of playing in a foreign country with respect to its net-of-tax rate on earnings around 0.5 and above 1 for younger players and top quality players. The large tax induced migration effects we uncover translate into significant effects in the performance of football clubs across countries.

There was also this interview with Kapoor on Exposing Wall Street -- It contained a segment on off shore tax havens - Lehman and Beyond - 8 videos of Sony Kapoor

[marvenger]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Ok what i'm getting at is that if you willing seek stupid amounts of money, and accept it, without thinking of the consequences to others you're a sociopath by my definition.

[BK]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Raz,

I assume your wife is not a Teacher in New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York or California.

If she were she would make a lot more MONEY.

I have a friend who is a Teacher - and makes $85,000-$90,000. If you annualize this amount and include the defined Pension Benefit - the True Annual Income is probably equates to $120,000-$130,000.

Communities can't function when teachers receive this can of PAY. My friend is very bright and very hard working and better educated.

Wages for Teachers in New Jersey, Massachusetts , New York , and California require a World where Hedge Fund (and all FIRE Insdustry employees) continue to receive there absurd wages......otherwise there needs to be a wage/benefits reset for the Unionized Teachers of the EAST and West Coasts.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

I'll make the point once again...it was hedge fund managers like Bill Fleckenstein that were publicly sounding the warning about Greenspan's housing bubble even before EJ brought iTulip back on-line.

The condemnation here of the entire population is both unseemly and unwarranted.

The problem, however, is most of these usurers wield their influence in such a way that they have hastened our transition from democracy to plutocracy - the inevitable transition predicted by Oswald Spengler.

A typical mortgage holder, while necessarily enslaved by the bank as no middle class citizen can afford a decent home on his labor alone, cannot corrupt our political system in quite the same way.

It may appear unseemly to you, but as the rule of law and social unity further disintegrates, decisions will have to be made regarding who is necessary for the functioning of a civilized society and who is a threat.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

[
I agree that many of these guys are egotistical and greedy to an extreme but this article is more of an emotional rant than an examination of what's wrong with the entire system.

It's polemical, at the very least it highlights how the present social order is neither what the people want and as such demonstrates a failure of democracy and the so-called free market.

In a system of society free of corruption, such persons would never have been able to pervert government authority for such extraordinary theft.

[Rajiv]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Here is a graph of average salaries -- so if some teachers are getting $85-90k then many are geting a lot less than that. See also my reply to GRG55

Median Salary by Job - All K-12 Teachers (United States)

Compare your salary: Get a free Salary Report

[loweyecue]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Without Hedge Funds and Banker Incomes the Pay Scales for Teachers in the New Jersey/New York Metro Areas would have to fall dramatically.

I'll make the unpopular observation that Hedge Fund Managers /including FIRE Industry Wages allow Teachers, Firefighters. Police men, and all Municipal Employees of Metro New York/New Jersey to be OVERPAID. Society Needs lots of Teachers and Society Can't function if teachers are overpaid. So many Communities are on the Brink of Insolvencey because of Contracts that Over pay Teachers and all Municipal Employees. The Teachers Union is very happy to Have Hedge Fund Managers(and Hedge Fund Employees) in Living in their School Districts and driving up the cost of Real Estate (and Property Tax Revenues). The Money that flows from Hedge Fund Managers and Employees is another driver for high Real Estate Prices and has allowed Teachers Unions to get consistent Benefit and Pay increases for the past 25 years.

Sadly, the whole system is fundamentally flawed and only works until it Stops-working.

When will our Society realize that Parents are the Crucial element of a high performing Student and Not Teachers.

IMHO there is problem with this type of argument. Without Banker/Hedge fund managers living there the cost of living in CA, NY NJ wouldn't be what it is now, so the teachers would get by quite well on those lower wages. If you are going to talk about the effect of them living there then we should look at both sides of the equation not just one side.

[chr5648]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Raz,

I assume your wife is not a Teacher in New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York or California.

If she were she would make a lot more MONEY.

I have a friend who is a Teacher - and makes $85,000-$90,000. If you annualize this amount and include the defined Pension Benefit - the True Annual Income is probably equates to $120,000-$130,000.

Communities can't function when teachers receive this can of PAY. My friend is very bright and very hard working and better educated.

Wages for Teachers in New Jersey, Massachusetts , New York , and California require a World where Hedge Fund (and all FIRE Insdustry employees) continue to receive there absurd wages......otherwise there needs to be a wage/benefits reset for the Unionized Teachers of the EAST and West Coasts.

You forgot to mention the mandated increases in pay each year, in my town in NJ it is 3% mandatory increase. The question for you Rajiv, is how the hell is my town gonna get that 3% each year, not just for teachers what about the police, fire, and politicians. Too Bad I don't live in a rich town, maybe we could tax some hedge fund manager.

The problem, however, is most of these usurers wield their influence in such a way that they have hastened our transition from democracy to plutocracy - the inevitable transition predicted by Oswald Spengler.

A typical mortgage holder, while necessarily enslaved by the bank as no middle class citizen can afford a decent home on his labor alone, cannot corrupt our political system in quite the same way.

It may appear unseemly to you, but as the rule of law and social unity further disintegrates, decisions will have to be made regarding who is necessary for the functioning of a civilized society and who is a threat.

Someone just nailed this on the head.

[Rajiv]

Re: 25 Hedge Fund Managers Are Worth 680,000 Teachers

Then there is this to go along with my tax structure argument

Click on the image to see a larger image