Buchanan on reindustrialization

[labasta]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

On a slightly side note, I was talking to a friend a few months back about his previous role as a salesman for a German engineering firm. I trotted out the (wrong) opinion that today machines manufacture everything and so going back to a manufacturing based economy wouldn't solve the fire dilema.

He recalled to me the time he was visiting China for the company. He was taken on a tour of the factory (forgotten the kind of widget) and saw the floor of the factory had no workers on it, only machines and robots. The tour guide said that there were six workers on the actual manufacturing side of things. However, he was then taken to the floor below the actual manufacturing level where over 2000 engineers were employed to design and improve the product and process etc.

That my friends, says it all.



[tinfoil_hat] The elite are vying for a one world economic, political and cultural system where different regions of the earth are to be designated their different roles in the world economy. Seconday industries (will be) is in South East Asia. Tertiary to take place in the West, primary industries in South America, Russia, Australia etc. The language will be English and the culture, American (the most successful culture at brainwashing, e.g. American TV).

Germany has fought remarkably well in resisting these economic measures despite repeated corporate de-industrialisation attacks. It's hanging on still with gigantic subsidies and other methods of government support, but can it hold out? Japan, I think, is a gonna.

The one world dictatorship will resemble American democracy (covert rule) but more obvious so as to have more in common with the EU which is a dictatorship (oligarchy at best) weakly pretending to be a democracy, at least, at the federal level (where it counts). Even locally, agents will and have been sent in to "manage" matters of importance for the oligarchy, e.g. Common Purpose.

To make this very weakly veiled dictatorship to work, language, media, electronic, and chemical weapons are being used to keep the mind in a state of prozakian-numbed contentment at their life and things in general, e.g. American television and "news" reporting. The theme world-wide will rather resemble the national American subliminal message from the television, which is "Everything is all swell and dandy in America la-la land."

However, despite the constant attack, resistance is possible and even likely. But that responsibility is up to each and every one of us.

[/tinfoil_hat]

[Starving Steve]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

On a slightly side note, I was talking to a friend a few months back about his previous role as a salesman for a German engineering firm. I trotted out the (wrong) opinion that today machines manufacture everything and so going back to a manufacturing based economy wouldn't solve the fire dilema.

He recalled to me the time he was visiting China for the company. He was taken on a tour of the factory (forgotten the kind of widget) and saw the floor of the factory had no workers on it, only machines and robots. The tour guide said that there were six workers on the actual manufacturing side of things. However, he was then taken to the floor below the actual manufacturing level where over 2000 engineers were employed to design and improve the product and process etc.

That my friends, says it all.



[tinfoil_hat] The elite are vying for a one world economic, political and cultural system where different regions of the earth are to be designated their different roles in the world economy. Seconday industries (will be) is in South East Asia. Tertiary to take place in the West, primary industries in South America, Russia, Australia etc. The language will be English and the culture, American (the most successful culture at brainwashing, e.g. American TV).

Germany has fought remarkably well in resisting these economic measures despite repeated corporate de-industrialisation attacks. It's hanging on still with gigantic subsidies and other methods of government support, but can it hold out? Japan, I think, is a gonna.

The one world dictatorship will resemble American democracy (covert rule) but more obvious so as to have more in common with the EU which is a dictatorship (oligarchy at best) weakly pretending to be a democracy, at least, at the federal level (where it counts). Even locally, agents will and have been sent in to "manage" matters of importance for the oligarchy, e.g. Common Purpose.

To make this very weakly veiled dictatorship to work, language, media, electronic, and chemical weapons are being used to keep the mind in a state of prozakian-numbed contentment at their life and things in general, e.g. American television and "news" reporting. The theme world-wide will rather resemble the national American subliminal message from the television, which is "Everything is all swell and dandy in America la-la land."

However, despite the constant attack, resistance is possible and even likely. But that responsibility is up to each and every one of us.

[/tinfoil_hat]

One eskamo coat--- the kind with the furry parka, i.e, the kind that would go with the film, Nanook of the North--- costs $450 (four hundred and fifty dollars) if made in Canada. The same coat, almost, and complete with the furry parka, made in Vietnam costs $30 (thirty dollars) at Burlington Coat Factory in California.

If I buy the Vietnam knock-off, I save $420. That gives me $420 to buy other things in America or in Canada or Mexico or from wherever. If that isn't an argument for free-trade and open borders, I don't know what is.

Let the failing companies fail. And let the efficient companies prosper. That discipline --- that freedom to succeed or fail--- helps everyone. When governments keep their hands-off, it gives us all the freedom of choice in the market place, not to mention, a lower cost of living.;)

[aaron]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

One eskamo coat--- the kind with the furry parka, i.e, the kind that would go with the film, Nanook of the North--- costs $450 (four hundred and fifty dollars) if made in Canada. The same coat, almost, and complete with the furry parka, made in Vietnam costs $30 (thirty dollars) at Burlington Coat Factory in California.

If I buy the Vietnam knock-off, I save $420. That gives me $420 to buy other things in America or in Canada or Mexico or from wherever. If that isn't an argument for free-trade and open borders, I don't know what is.

Let the failing companies fail. And let the efficient companies prosper. That discipline --- that freedom to succeed or fail--- helps everyone. When governments keep their hands-off, it gives us all the freedom of choice in the market place, not to mention, a lower cost of living.;)

Christ Steve, I like my winter fruits as much as the next guy, but you need to look one step further. What happened to the guys in Canada who were making the coats? What happened to the money they would have spent buying shoes from the eskimo down the street? Canada is lucky in this regards... Those workers can be sent to the shale mines, I suppose. But realistically, not all jobs are replaced. It is great for you and me (we have some money), but others have to live off the government (if they are lucky).

Cost of living has been going up for years and years
Only people with money have freedom of choice
Less people have money now

--------
What if we turned NAFTA into a real, free trade block and had huge barriers for every other country? Forget the rest... make the Amero a reality (backed by gold), repudiate all debts, bring all troops home, and rebuild our countries? It is doable, in my opinion. But, "free trade" in its current form has been of limited benefit to the average North American. It has been great for other parts of the world, but not for ours.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

On a slightly side note, I was talking to a friend a few months back about his previous role as a salesman for a German engineering firm. I trotted out the (wrong) opinion that today machines manufacture everything and so going back to a manufacturing based economy wouldn't solve the fire dilema.

He recalled to me the time he was visiting China for the company. He was taken on a tour of the factory (forgotten the kind of widget) and saw the floor of the factory had no workers on it, only machines and robots. The tour guide said that there were six workers on the actual manufacturing side of things. However, he was then taken to the floor below the actual manufacturing level where over 2000 engineers were employed to design and improve the product and process etc.

That my friends, says it all.



[tinfoil_hat] The elite are vying for a one world economic, political and cultural system where different regions of the earth are to be designated their different roles in the world economy. Seconday industries (will be) is in South East Asia. Tertiary to take place in the West, primary industries in South America, Russia, Australia etc. The language will be English and the culture, American (the most successful culture at brainwashing, e.g. American TV).

Germany has fought remarkably well in resisting these economic measures despite repeated corporate de-industrialisation attacks. It's hanging on still with gigantic subsidies and other methods of government support, but can it hold out? Japan, I think, is a gonna.

The one world dictatorship will resemble American democracy (covert rule) but more obvious so as to have more in common with the EU which is a dictatorship (oligarchy at best) weakly pretending to be a democracy, at least, at the federal level (where it counts). Even locally, agents will and have been sent in to "manage" matters of importance for the oligarchy, e.g. Common Purpose.

To make this very weakly veiled dictatorship to work, language, media, electronic, and chemical weapons are being used to keep the mind in a state of prozakian-numbed contentment at their life and things in general, e.g. American television and "news" reporting. The theme world-wide will rather resemble the national American subliminal message from the television, which is "Everything is all swell and dandy in America la-la land."

However, despite the constant attack, resistance is possible and even likely. But that responsibility is up to each and every one of us.

[/tinfoil_hat]

Well, this isn't so far from the truth. But rest assured, it will not come to pass. It may seem all of the elite are out to get you, but there are many - more than you probably realize - who are awaiting the right moment to play a major role in fighting this trend.

Further, this globalist vision is fundamentally against nature. The weight of history alone is enough to prove the inevitability of victory.

[VIT]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

Interesting to watch all these talks from Americans. Look how the re-industrialization was linked to free trade or barriers. If we think 100-200 years ago for Europe or even IT boom in US 10 years ago there was not such idea to link these two. Do not you see the problem ?

It is not about free trade is good or bad the question is to whom and when. It is very good to have a free trade when you have technological advantage but if you don't it means your living standard will equalize with the rest of the world in average. That is the nature of capitalism to equalize the "room temperature". It could be achieved by finding new markets for old goods or even old markets with new goods by advance in technology. When you are hotter body this equalization process makes the work for you - read prosperity. If you are not - sorry, but you will have average temperature.

Posing the trading barriers will mark that US lost the technological advantage and eventually in a long run all the respective industries will loose in a world competition.

There is one guy who is saying we see the crisis of world labor specialization. 100 years ago there were several centers of technological advance, at the end of 20 century there were only 2: USSR and US. Now it is only 1. There is no room anymore to gain by increasing the specialization. Until we find the new model technological advance is stalled.

I think there is a rational point in this. If this is a case we should see the equalization in the world which is bad news for US. If you are 1-st you have everything, second gets nothing. Not sure you can stop it by re-industrialization, but reducing overhead definitely help you to compete with equals.

[Starving Steve]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

Interesting to watch all these talks from Americans. Look how the re-industrialization was linked to free trade or barriers. If we think 100-200 years ago for Europe or even IT boom in US 10 years ago there was not such idea to link these two. Do not you see the problem ?

It is not about free trade is good or bad the question is to whom and when. It is very good to have a free trade when you have technological advantage but if you don't it means your living standard will equalize with the rest of the world in average. That is the nature of capitalism to equalize the "room temperature". It could be achieved by finding new markets for old goods or even old markets with new goods by advance in technology. When you are hotter body this equalization process makes the work for you - read prosperity. If you are not - sorry, but you will have average temperature.

Posing the trading barriers will mark that US lost the technological advantage and eventually in a long run all the respective industries will loose in a world competition.

There is one guy who is saying we see the crisis of world labor specialization. 100 years ago there were several centers of technological advance, at the end of 20 century there were only 2: USSR and US. Now it is only 1. There is no room anymore to gain by increasing the specialization. Until we find the new model technological advance is stalled.

I think there is a rational point in this. If this is a case we should see the equalization in the world which is bad news for US. If you are 1-st you have everything, second gets nothing. Not sure you can stop it by re-industrialization, but reducing overhead definitely help you to compete with equals.

The U.S. could reduce the overhead cost for businesses by instituting national health insurance, just like the other countries in the world have now. And the U.S. could pay for this by a GST tax or a VAT tax. Whatever, the U.S. had better move quickly now, otherwise, the U.S. will sink to bottom of this fish tank and end-up a turd-rate nation. Without national health insurance, America is going to lose this race and not survive.:rolleyes:

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

There is one guy who is saying we see the crisis of world labor specialization. 100 years ago there were several centers of technological advance, at the end of 20 century there were only 2: USSR and US. Now it is only 1. There is no room anymore to gain by increasing the specialization. Until we find the new model technological advance is stalled.

I think there is a rational point in this. If this is a case we should see the equalization in the world which is bad news for US. If you are 1-st you have everything, second gets nothing. Not sure you can stop it by re-industrialization, but reducing overhead definitely help you to compete with equals.

1) If you think the US is the center of technological advancement to the exclusion of all other countries, you're crazy. We do still have a fair amount of advancement, but with the exception of some computer engineering, most of it is inconsequential. This is particularly true of the huge sums of money we invest in medical treatment that is not only pointless in this overpopulated world but has no appreciable impact on society at large, even in the US.

2) This grand dream of world trade was dreamed up by the same sorts of dilettantes who gave us the Iraq war. To them, it's like a risk board. They ignore race, they ignore culture, they ignore variable natural resources, they ignore everything that has ever differentiated one group of people from another. You can stop all of this madness by simply telling the world you no longer want to be a part of it, the consequences be damned.

[VIT]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

1) If you think the US is the center of technological advancement to the exclusion of all other countries, you're crazy. We do still have a fair amount of advancement, but with the exception of some computer engineering, most of it is inconsequential. This is particularly true of the huge sums of money we invest in medical treatment that is not only pointless in this overpopulated world but has no appreciable impact on society at large, even in the US.

see http://www.unesco.org/science/psd/ws...Sheet_2009.pdf

2007 world share of R&D:
US 32.4%
Japan 13%
China 9.2%
Germany 6.1%
etc

Numbers speak for themselves. And there is a lag between current expenditures and return on them. But even if we think from common sense what are the most R&D intensive industries / products:

- Aircraft - US and EU. Do you have any other countries passenger airplane with substantial presence world wide.
- Military, Pharmacy, Semiconductor, IT - US companies dominated.

Again I am not saying this is the only place, but it is a center. Even if you have a semiconductor factory in Asia probably it was designed in US or by US company or with US equipment.


2) This grand dream of world trade was dreamed up by the same sorts of dilettantes who gave us the Iraq war. To them, it's like a risk board. They ignore race, they ignore culture, they ignore variable natural resources, they ignore everything that has ever differentiated one group of people from another. You can stop all of this madness by simply telling the world you no longer want to be a part of it, the consequences be damned.

Do not see how this relates to my post.

see my comments

[Starving Steve]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

see my comments

I don't see anything wrong with the Iraq War. A modern-day Hitlerite was captured and hung, and that outcome was OK by me. And post-Iraq War, there is peace in Lebonon, peace in Syria, peace in Jordan, peace in Isreal, peace in Kuwait, peace in Qatar, and peace in Saudi-Arabia. The outcome was GOOD and above what I had expected. (So I give a hi-5 to Bush and his bunch.)

As far as respecting culture differences, I am not too darn impressed with the culture to-day in Iran, especially in Tehran. And I am not too darn impressed with the culture to-day in the Taliban-controlled parts of Afganistan and Pakistan.

As far as research and development going on in the U.S, I don't see too much going on outside of military-funded projects. An exception would be R&D on pharmacuiticals, also the R&D being done by General Electric. But these are the exceptions.

Subtract defence projects from the 32% of the world's R&D, also subtract-out pharmacuiticals, and that doesn't leave much R&D in the U.S. And there is not much going on now in Silicon Valley aside from gagets and toys being developed for the rich to play with.

When the U.S. starts to put its talent together on projects to lower the cost of living, especially on projects to lower the cost of energy, then I would invest in America. But I would not invest in America the way it is now.

[Zen$]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

I don't see anything wrong with the Iraq War. A modern-day Hitlerite was captured and hung, and that outcome was OK by me. And post-Iraq War, there is peace in Lebonon, peace in Syria, peace in Jordan, peace in Isreal, peace in Kuwait, peace in Qatar, and peace in Saudi-Arabia. The outcome was GOOD and above what I had expected. (So I give a hi-5 to Bush and his bunch.)

As far as respecting culture differences, I am not too darn impressed with the culture to-day in Iran, especially in Tehran. And I am not too darn impressed with the culture to-day in the Taliban-controlled parts of Afganistan and Pakistan.

As far as research and development going on in the U.S, I don't see too much going on outside of military-funded projects. An exception would be R&D on pharmacuiticals, also the R&D being done by General Electric. But these are the exceptions.

Subtract defence projects from the 32% of the world's R&D, also subtract-out pharmacuiticals, and that doesn't leave much R&D in the U.S. And there is not much going on now in Silicon Valley aside from gagets and toys being developed for the rich to play with.

When the U.S. starts to put its talent together on projects to lower the cost of living, especially on projects to lower the cost of energy, then I would invest in America. But I would not invest in America the way it is now.

Starving Steve should come down here to the US and:

1) Look into the eyes of a family that lost a loved one in Iraq
2) Pay the taxes that get you precious little given their pretty high level

and then still conclude the mission and outcome was peachy?
[We will ignore the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that died for now as they are just future "serfs"--right?]

One can try to stay civil on these boards but clearly Steve is not starving, and has likely not had a family member die for a dubious war and suffer the real and devastating emotional and economic consequences. He likely has money and is not young and trying to start off so he is concerned with "prices" as a consumer. As all the old fart WW2 generation and Boomer types were as they started to sell out Gen X as they just got into the economy with NAFTA, GATT, deficits, etc. This has done quite a bit to undermine "our American way of life." [Well well "'the greatest' generation"; yea right.] His comments seem to tract what I will call the Anglo-American right wing talking points. Its funny how from Canada, to the US, to the UK, to all the way to Australia they all eventually get on the same sheet after a few years.

"Free trade" as currently practiced is such a load of bullocks that one could spend days criticizing why it is. Suffice to say economists always seem to mistake the model for the real world--after all that is where grants and tenure come from--right?

Here's how us Americans can get Steve' goat. Frankly I think the US should impose a "world security tax" that all the exporters must pay to gain access to the US market; it will be base on their worldwide exportables (as an American citizen I am taxed on worldwide income even though I might not live in the US) and will require filing with all the appropriate forms with the IRS on these worldwide exports. [That way its not a "tariff" in the same way the the health care excise tax is not an income tax ; and since everyone must pay it it treats all fairly ;).] With that we Americans could pay off the crazy debt that the dumbass Republicans and Democrats have saddled the US taxpayers with due to wars and military spending since the 80's. That way the world could just make "contributions" toward the peace and stability that others enjoy including Canada and Europe which effectively freeload off the US taxpayer. Either that or they could pony up the material and manpower to knock off the next "modern-day Hitlerite" to come along. The entire EU and Canada military has nowhere the material and manpower to invade Iran (or Iraq or Korea . . .). So Steve you can suck on that if you think I support that BS right wing play book to get us to invade IRAN.

The "world security tax" could also get them aquainted with the IRS (a kind, noble, and loving organization). Steve could get those lovely letters they send out and learn to speak a new foreign language "IRC."

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

As all the old fart WW2 generation and Boomer types were as they started to sell out Gen X as they just got into the economy with NAFTA, GATT, deficits, etc.

Well, yeah, things are a tad messed up. I'll give you that. And I am one to appreciate a good sarcastic rant and a good screen name.

However I recommend being careful in pointing the blame for this cockup. It's pretty clear that things go rotten fairly often in history; probably more often than we realize since "winners write the history books" and few of us read them anyway.

The phenomenon of pointing figures at the supposed bad guys who fouled up this time may be more of a symptom of the disease than a reliable indicator of the mechanisms by which human polities rot.

[lsa420]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

On a lighter note.....

Since the discussion has focused on "free trade" and the like, perhaps some good old fashioned Bastiat is in order. Enjoy.

Economic Sophisms

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

On a lighter note.....

Since the discussion has focused on "free trade" and the like, perhaps some good old fashioned Bastiat is in order. Enjoy.

Economic Sophisms

What a comical product of the Enlightenment, even down to his anti-bonapartism!

"I won't bother using logic in my argument because my opponents are merely sophists!"

Would even Socrates have been so bold?

Ultimately, this is the problem with Enlightenment thinking. Their belief in the rationality of their ideas is strong, not even the billions upon billions of humans living like animals can prove them wrong.

And we wonder why war comes to our lands and how the French Revolution unleashed this wretched modernity upon our lands.

[lsa420]

Re: Buchanan on reindustrialization

Ultimately, this is the problem with Enlightenment thinking. Their belief in the rationality of their ideas is strong, not even the billions upon billions of humans living like animals can prove them wrong.

Obviously the terrible conditions you speak of are due primarily to enlightened ideas such as freedom, individual liberty, property rights and free trade. I had no idea. Thanks for enlightening me.

Tyranny, oppressive governments, protectionism, socialism and central economic planning only have a positive effect on humanity, and have nothing to do with the billions upon billions of humans living like animals.