The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

[jiimbergin]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

When was the last time anyone who reads here had someone walk up to them and give them $100 or 500 $100 bills and say "here take this, there are NO strings attached." Please take a moment and write to us about your experience. It doesn't happen in real life, and it certainly does not happen in US politics.

I donated a fair amount to canidates last year. Enough to some that I probably could have had some influence. I gave money to those I believed would vote as I would vote. If they don't then they will get no money from me in the next election cylce. That does not necessarily make them corrupt.

[Serge_Tomiko]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

I voted in the election that sent #1 on the corruption list, Vern Buchanan, to Washington. The best candidate, the one with the most character, and the guy I voted for finished 3rd. I was dumbfounded by the results as a blindman could see that Vern Buchanan was corrupt and was well reported by local papers. His appearance on this list is no surprise. I've also had the opportunity to attend one of his speeches. He's a mental midget.

This whole episode is sureal. I could see so clearly that he was an idiot and a crook, yet he won the local republican nomination, and now he's made the "top corruption" list in his first term. The only answer is that our election process is also rigged. I feel like Neo in The Matrix movie after taking the red pill.

What has happened to the United States I thought I knew?

The truly sad issue is that some of the crooks on the list have been on the list multiple times and for multiple offenses. How the hell do these crooks continue to win re-election? Jeeshz, people, let's friggin' wake up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQF8...layer_embedded

Either the people in your district are too stupid or the elections were rigged. In either case, democracy clearly is over.

[rjwjr]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Jim,

When an individual (and only individuals can contribute, and there is an upper limit of ~$2500) contributes to a political campaign, one has to disclose one's profession, and employer. So that is what allows the figures you quote to be calculated.

So if you (a dentist) were a contributor who gave $100 to a campaign, it would show up as a contribution by a health professional. If it were somebody employed by the Pharma Industry, it would show up there.

So far, logically there is no corruption!

The corruption comes from two sources -- from individuals that give to many campaigns simultaneously at the limit ($2500) -- and from lobbyists, who use the categorization, you just cited to their advantage when lobbying the politicians for preferred treatment for their favorite pork project.

Since the Supreme Court has decreed that money equals free speech, it appears that the rich have more free speech than the poor.

Your perspective is supported, Rajiv, by the fact that Dr. Paul seemed to have tremendous grass roots support. In my little geographical circle, the number of Paul demonstrators were far more numerous and noticeable than any other candidate for any other elected office. Too bad that grass roots support (he set two Republican fundraising records during his campaign and was the top-raising Republican in the 4thQ of 2007 with $20,000,000 in donations!) doesn't translate to being named the party's candidate. In spite of that obvious grass roots popularity he finished last in delegates amongst the 4 candidates still in the race when John McCain locked-up the nomination. Something just ain't right.

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Jim,

What has Ron Paul done to "pay back" his "monied" interests? He votes "no" on anything that expands government and does everything he can to reduce it. I wish all special interests were payed back in that way.

I don't follow the voting record of any politician, but I'll stick with what to me is a reasonable contention. People in interest groups do not back politicians without expectation of support for their interests. I think if that were not the case no entity would go to the trouble to track the data as is put forth at http://maplight.org/map/us/legislator

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

I donated a fair amount to canidates last year. Enough to some that I probably could have had some influence. I gave money to those I believed would vote as I would vote. If they don't then they will get no money from me in the next election cylce. That does not necessarily make them corrupt.

Below is copied from http://maplight.org/map/us/legislator

"MAPLight.org, a groundbreaking public database, illuminates the connection between campaign donations and legislative votes in unprecedented ways. Elected officials collect large sums of money to run their campaigns, and they often pay back campaign contributors with special access and favorable laws.

"This common practice is contrary to the public interest, yet legal. "

"MAPLight.org makes money/vote connections transparent, to help citizens hold their legislators accountable.

"The Database

MAPLight.org combines three data sets:

• Bill texts and legislative voting records
• Supporting and opposing interests for each bill
• Campaign contribution data from the Center for Responsive Politics and the National Institute on Money in State Politics

Combining this data makes visible key information that could never before be determined easily. For example:

• Contributions given by interests supporting and opposing each bill
• Average donations given to legislators voting Yes and No on each bill
• Timeline of contributions and votes for each bill, graphically identifying when legislators received large donations before or after their vote."

jimbergin, then perhaps the better word for the expected effect of giving money to politicians in hope/expectation that their votes would favor your interests is along the line of "prostitution" as it applies to those receiving the money. On one hand, I personally favor the legalization of prostitution as it applies to the sex trade. I don't favor it when exchange of money takes place to influence passage of laws. Maybe I am suffering cognitive dissonance.

If it is not too intrusive to answer, because you have some real experience with making donations, what does one have to do when sending a check? Fill out a form stating what is your profession and who is you employer as Rajiv stated in his post above. Naive as I am, and only having donated to Nixon's campaign 25$ in 1972, I thought one only wrote a check, signed it, and mailed it. As all I recall is I sent a check to Nixon's campaign in an envelope I received.

My opinion, which is not worth anything, is that politicians and donors at some point, if this so-called democracy is to continue to function as it might have been intended, must change their focus to consideration of what is good for the population at large vs. what is good for those who support the candidates financially. I suppose if that were to ever happen, it might occur from publicly funded campaigns, which if there are any arguments that we can't afford it, then consider presently what things we seem to be affording (hint:bailouts).

[Jim Nickerson]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

I donated a fair amount to canidates last year. Enough to some that I probably could have had some influence. I gave money to those I believed would vote as I would vote. If they don't then they will get no money from me in the next election cylce. That does not necessarily make them corrupt.

One more opinion: jiimbergin, how you would vote, or I for the matter, might or might not be in the best interests of the country at large. I'm not judging your morality here, I don't think, but if how you, as an example, divvy up your contributions to political candidates is based on how you think they'll vote with regard to how you see things best, then there isn't a lot of difference between your contributions and those of corporations and however they end up buying influence except that their greater donations almost certainly are more influential than your smaller ones. The desire between small and large donors being the same: to influence votes to what they perceive as their best interests.

Here is where laws are/should be best determined by deliberative bodies (house and senate) versus direct vote by the public. Even if 50.001% of the public wants something it might not be in the best interests of most people in the country. An immediate example being provision of healthcare for every citizen. Maybe on 50.001% would vote in a popular election to change anything from its current form; that definitely is against the interests of the voting minority.

The problem with the deliberative bodies acting in the best interest of the country is money and who provided it.

[wayiwalk]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

I voted in the election that sent #1 on the corruption list, Vern Buchanan, to Washington. The best candidate, the one with the most character, and the guy I voted for finished 3rd. I was dumbfounded by the results as a blindman could see that Vern Buchanan was corrupt and was well reported by local papers. His appearance on this list is no surprise. I've also had the opportunity to attend one of his speeches. He's a mental midget.

This whole episode is sureal. I could see so clearly that he was an idiot and a crook, yet he won the local republican nomination, and now he's made the "top corruption" list in his first term. The only answer is that our election process is also rigged. I feel like Neo in The Matrix movie after taking the red pill.

What has happened to the United States I thought I knew?

The truly sad issue is that some of the crooks on the list have been on the list multiple times and for multiple offenses. How the hell do these crooks continue to win re-election? Jeeshz, people, let's friggin' wake up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGQF8LAmiaE&feature=player_embedded

Wow - I usually don't have a knee-jerk reaction to pols from either party, I see them as all corrupt, but man oh man does this guy ever take the cake.

Total trash.

I sure would love a list of names of the people with overseas / tax haven investments - like that being chased by the IRS of RBS. I'm convinced that there would be 100's of our congressmen with such investments.

[jiimbergin]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

jimbergin, then perhaps the better word for the expected effect of giving money to politicians in hope/expectation that their votes would favor your interests is along the line of "prostitution" as it applies to those receiving the money. On one hand, I personally favor the legalization of prostitution as it applies to the sex trade. I don't favor it when exchange of money takes place to influence passage of laws. Maybe I am suffering cognitive dissonance.


If it is not too intrusive to answer, because you have some real experience with making donations, what does one have to do when sending a check?

I personally need nothing from politicians, other than not confiscating my gold or other assets. We have 14 grandchildren. I pick canidates that I believe will leave this country a better place for my grandchildren than other politicians. I am retired with a reasonable amount of assets and income.

When you donate, they know a lot about you. Name, address, phone number, occupation, etc. I usually donate on line using a credit card.

[mikedev10]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Show me an elected official who is not mainly supported in their campaigns by monied interests, and then you might be on to one who is mostly honest or least corrupt. Paul has a lot of money from special interest groups backing his last campaign according to http://maplight.org/map/us/legislator



They are all crooks.

lobbyists don't bother to visit him. these numbers are just aggregated up from donors like me right? i identify myself as an IT consultant, so my cash falls into the computers/internet? i don't suppose there's anyone in congress or anywhere that has something like "other" at the top of this list!

[mikedev10]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

One more opinion: jiimbergin, how you would vote, or I for the matter, might or might not be in the best interests of the country at large. I'm not judging your morality here, I don't think, but if how you, as an example, divvy up your contributions to political candidates is based on how you think they'll vote with regard to how you see things best, then there isn't a lot of difference between your contributions and those of corporations and however they end up buying influence except that their greater donations almost certainly are more influential than your smaller ones. The desire between small and large donors being the same: to influence votes to what they perceive as their best interests.

Here is where laws are/should be best determined by deliberative bodies (house and senate) versus direct vote by the public. Even if 50.001% of the public wants something it might not be in the best interests of most people in the country. An immediate example being provision of healthcare for every citizen. Maybe on 50.001% would vote in a popular election to change anything from its current form; that definitely is against the interests of the voting minority.

The problem with the deliberative bodies acting in the best interest of the country is money and who provided it.

why does the 50.001% matter? we are a republic, not a direct democracy. our reps are not supposed to vote directly among current popular opinion. they are supposed to be wiser than the mob.

sadly ignorant constituents elect ignorant representatives and i'm not so sure many are wiser than the mob today. but that is because we now have a citizenship largely ignorant and distinterested in politics, foreign affairs, economics etc... thus "a republic, if you can keep it" --- it seems to be slipping.

[tsetsefly]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Show me an elected official who is not mainly supported in their campaigns by monied interests, and then you might be on to one who is mostly honest or least corrupt. Paul has a lot of money from special interest groups backing his last campaign according to http://maplight.org/map/us/legislator



They are all crooks.

Those are not PAC's or businesses giving him money. If im not mistaken he gets most of his money from individual donors, and they list their job.

You can look at his voting record, I dont think he is doint anyone many favors.

[jiimbergin]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Those are not PAC's or businesses giving him money. If im not mistaken he gets most of his money from individual donors, and they list their job.

You can look at his voting record, I dont think he is doint anyone many favors.

He is not one I gave money to, but I should have and I will in the future. I do not see him doing anyone any favors. He is voting just as any contributer would have expected. That is certainly not corruption.

[Ghent12]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

Show me an elected official who is not mainly supported in their campaigns by monied interests, and then you might be on to one who is mostly honest or least corrupt. Paul has a lot of money from special interest groups backing his last campaign according to http://maplight.org/map/us/legislator



They are all crooks.

This angers me greatly. You have shown a penchant for logical deductive reasoning in the past, yet in this case you choose to make an assumption which is patently false--namely that since Dr. Paul receives political donations, he therefore must be a crook. Please take your passion out of the discussion and look towards the evidence. There is none to suggest that Dr. Paul is not the most honest person in Washington.

[neoken]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

This list is from individual donors as far as I can tell. Below are some links to OpenSecrets.org, great site to dig into donations.

Paul donations

Interesting how most of the money comes from military families, I guess he struck a cord with the folks who didn't want to jump on the liberal anti-war band wagon.

Compare these donations to my own congress-critter from Tennessee:

Jimmie Duncan

Seems old Jimmie has a lot more PAC monies. Paul has almost none.


Also:
Paul's voting record


Just skimming through his record it seems pretty consistent with what I've heard from him. Now I doubt I'd ever vote for him because he's not close enough to my political views, but on first glance he seems less beholden to big money donors than most...a little plus goes in his column.

[Mashuri]

Re: The Most Corrupt Members Of Congress 9/22/09

This list is from individual donors as far as I can tell. Below are some links to OpenSecrets.org, great site to dig into donations.

Paul donations

Interesting how most of the money comes from military families, I guess he struck a cord with the folks who didn't want to jump on the liberal anti-war band wagon.

And yet notice all the "no" votes he gives for military expansion. I saw that he voted "yes" on a couple but found little provisions like this in them "-Prohibits the consideration of any bill, joint resolution, or conference report that would increase the budget deficit (Sec. 701)". Big shock that bill didn't get passed. ;)