machine gun marc

[Starving Steve]

Re: machine gun marc

I guess I'm expecting some mix of:

1. Great Britain this last century, with shrinking influence and declining individual wealth,
2. Russia the last two decades, with increasing political and economic dominance by a corrupt oligarchy and declining well being and safety of ordinary citizens, and
3. America during the Carter years, with foreign affairs failures, declining power, rising inflation, stagflation, rising unemployment, gas lines, increasing domestic bureaucracy and social and domestic discord, and increasing dissatisfaction with the politicians in Washington, especially the President.

Look to Chicago, Detroit and California for our future :eek:. Many Americans are going to have to learn to live poorer.

When you think of California (door #3), think of Salinas, California, the lettuce capital of America. Said to have a population of 144,000, it now has had already 100 gang killings this year. The killers are mostly school kids or young men in their twenties. This is door #3. So Chicago or Detroit could not be worse.

Salinas is only a few blocks of city; the rest of the town ends in lettuce fields. How they figure 144,000 people live there has to be through double-counting people or creative demography.

Picturesque as Salinas is to visit, don't get caught in a shoot-out between the gangs. The shootings go on day and night, even on Hwy 101 between cars.:eek:

[jtabeb]

Re: machine gun marc

Pure game theory. This is the general principle for winning.

Sorry, undergrad in CompSci. Old habits die hard.

[sunskyfan]

Re: machine gun marc

I generally agree with your sentiments (as I generally do most of the time ) though in the "dark shadow" may be the "coolest" place to be. The premise of any optimism I have is in our ability to pull our head out of ass. The warm pink glow of that state may make it impossible.

[ThePythonicCow]

Re: machine gun marc

The premise of any optimism I have is in our ability to pull our head out of ass. The warm pink glow of that state may make it impossible.

We've pulled out of alot of serious messes in our history, true. If we get out of this one in my lifetime in good shape, I'll delighted, but amazed.

It's going to take some serious downsizing of debt, living standards, the FIRE economy, corptocracy and government.

I sure don't see how we get there from here in one piece anytime soon.

[GRG55]

Re: machine gun marc

...A low-energy high-tech agricultural economy with entertainment and enough armaments to keep the rest of the world in-check is very doable...

US agriculture may be high-tech...but low-energy it ain't. Not by a long shot.

[cjppjc]

Re: machine gun marc

It is amazing how long it has taken for the entire phony system to crumble.

Yes. For maybe two decades I've though that we had a false prosperity. I used to say fake prosperity. I would tell all my friends we (America) were just borrowing money. They would nod their head and then not give it another thought. I think alot of people are slowly comming to the idea, to quote an iTuliper We Are Toast.

[mesyn191]

Re: machine gun marc

America is the number one agricultural power in the world.

Our agriculture is heavily dependent on cheap energy (read: cheap oil). With out that our production would drop precipitously and/or become much to expensive to sell effectively. Also many of the aquifers are being used up rapidly. We probably have a decade or 2 at least before it becomes a major problem though.

Also our armaments are very resource, energy, and finance intensive. If our economy goes bust it won't be long before our military starts to crumble.

[jtabeb]

Re: machine gun marc

to quote an iTuliper We Are Toast.

I thought I said "F*CKED"? Are you sure you are quoting accurately?:p:p

[lakedaemonian]

Re: machine gun marc

US agriculture may be high-tech...but low-energy it ain't. Not by a long shot.

US dairy farmers are getting slaughtered now.

And when the price of energy whipsaws again they'll continue to get slaughtered getting stuck behind the curve when dairy prices rise(just my opinion on history repeating itself).

Dairy farming in the US is like dairy farming in a Wal-Mart parking lot with a Mobil gas station as the feedlot.

Global lowest cost producers could do well out of this, but it could still be pretty painful until we get there.

We are dairy farming with low energy, low finance, and extremely low water inputs compared to our national and global competition and I'm still worried...particularly how China's bubble and global trade barriers for food will impact on us.

And if we are worried, then the world must be filled with dairy farmers on the brink.

[*T*]

Re: machine gun marc

Sorry, undergrad in CompSci. Old habits die hard.

Meant as a compliment, not a criticism.

[jtabeb]

Re: machine gun marc

Meant as a compliment, not a criticism.

Taken as the first, not the second ( It was a Tongue in Cheek response)

[sunskyfan]

Re: machine gun marc

That is a current condition but could be rectified pretty quickly. If we quit wasting energy living and hour from work and driving idiot gas hogs there is plenty of oil in the USA to last for some time.

Aquifers are only an issue in some of the arid regions that we try and farm (Western Kansas, Eastern Colorado and such). Not that I think we shouldn't also be smart about our water.

As to our military. If we do not panic and over-react we have the basis for a very tough and lethal small foot-print military. Our problem is that we keep asking our military to do nation building and peace keeping instead of nation defending and threat destruction.

[cjppjc]

Re: machine gun marc

That is a current condition but could be rectified pretty quickly. If we quit wasting energy living and hour from work and driving idiot gas hogs there is plenty of oil in the USA to last for some time.

Aquifers are only an issue in some of the arid regions that we try and farm (Western Kansas, Eastern Colorado and such). Not that I think we shouldn't also be smart about our water.

As to our military. If we do not panic and over-react we have the basis for a very tough and lethal small foot-print military. Our problem is that we keep asking our military to do nation building and peace keeping instead of nation defending and threat destruction.

Agree about the nation building. I clearly remember W saying he wasn't going to engage in nation building.

As for the work close to home, most would like to. It's just not that easy,

[mesyn191]

Re: machine gun marc

That is a current condition but could be rectified pretty quickly. If we quit wasting energy living and hour from work and driving idiot gas hogs there is plenty of oil in the USA to last for some time.

Relocating closer to work will be impossible for many due to the way the cities are set up. Energy consumption for crops has more to do with the fertilizer (massively energy intensive to produce, same thing with pesticides) than the cars in general.

Aquifers are only an issue in some of the arid regions that we try and farm (Western Kansas, Eastern Colorado and such).

Its not a arid region only problem. Its all over the US. This is more of a long term issue ATM, the problem is that its so big if we don't start doing something drastic about it now we may start having another crisis within a decade or 2.

As to our military. If we do not panic and over-react we have the basis for a very tough and lethal small foot-print military. Our problem is that we keep asking our military to do nation building and peace keeping instead of nation defending and threat destruction.

Even if its just sitting there doing nothing but waiting our military hardware still consumes vast resources just to maintain readiness. I don't share your optimism that we'll be able to shrink it and still maintain much or most of our force projection capability that would keep others in check.

[sunskyfan]

Re: machine gun marc

We can change the shape and distribution of our cities very easily. It just takes and economic collapse .

Chemical based farming is not needed at the level it is used and I am not aware of any substantial aquifer problem beyond where I mentioned. No doubt that in arid regions where there is extensive use of pumped water there are unsustainable situations. But, I don't think this is a systemic problem in the rest of the US.

I think people underestimate our ability to project cheap power due to technological superiority mostly because it does not pay anybody, yet, to configure our military that way. It will.