dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

[sunskyfan]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

The question is not "what price gold?". The question is "what relevance gold?".

[Forrest]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

Why? Who cares about what the price of gold does? It's totally irrelevant except maybe for the fact it correlates with things that do matter.

It's the price of Oil that matters.

Alas, poor friend, it is only gold that doesn't get used up, that everyone holds onto, that century by century is the standard currency, because it is used as a portable and tradable store of wealth as well as a commodity.

Oil is great for trading, for use, for building wealth...not for currency.

If we could only look at all cost in terms of gold, which is real, and at paper currencies, which are only a "promise", as the false weights and measures they are, we could happily trade on and off the gold standard, and consequently, always know where we stand.

The question is not "what price gold?". The question is "what relevance gold?".

Perhaps barbarous times will require a “barbarous relic”

Have you been to China or India lately?

If you will just stop looking at gold as a commodity for a moment, and simply look at it as money, I will explain, but pardon a little history.

Inflation isn't new, and neither is false dealing to make money...as soon as they had gold in Shinar they probably had someone stealing from someone else by 1) lying about the value, quality, or scarcity of the goods, or 2) adding some other metal to the gold, diluting it's value. Prices rise and fall because of the market, as well, and wars and famines hit, complicating the matter, but usually its simple greed that gets people into things like fractional reserve banking, junk bonds, or derivatives.

I will use the classic example. 2000 years ago, 1 ounce of gold purchased a gentleman's suit of clothes. I don't know what that is in yards of linen and dye, and embroidery, but whatever.

In about 1900, it cost about $20.00 gold to purchase the same quality of clothing for a gentleman. A $20.00 gold piece weighs about 1 ounce. Hmmmm!

If you looked at suits about 12 years ago, and at the price of gold, a suit ran about $250, if I recall it properly, and shock of shocks, so did an ounce of gold.

Looking at the price of a decent suit these days, 1 ounce of gold will still buy a gentlemen about the same quality of clothing as in 9AD, and 1900ad , and 1997ad for the same 1 ounce of gold.

Gold is the only universal, stable store of value, and you can use it that way, without words, or documents or contracts in any country, for just about anything.

We should not look at the gold we hold just as a hedge against inflation, and a sure fund of real money in the event of war, economic collapse, or governmental shennanigans.

If we look at what we buy in terms of what it costs in gold, you can easily compare the relevant values of yen against remnimbi, compared to the price of gold!

Everyone mistrusts fiat money, and really, in their heart of hearts, although they usually don't know why, they know that gold as currency maintains it value, year after year, no matter what happens.

The Central Banks of every country know it too, or they wouldn't have so much of the stuff!

[sunskyfan]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

You must be one of those guys wearing $1000 suits? or you can go down to Men's Warehouse or Jos A Banks and get one for less than $500. What does that mean?

[Spartacus]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

is that a Shilling/Zippy morph

or a Mish/Shilling/Prechter composite?

[GRG55]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

...Oil is great for trading, for use, for building wealth...not for currency...

Actually oil is good for making the stuff that moves your car, heating your home [if you aren't fortunate enough to be connected to a nat gas pipe ], enriching all manner of exporting country kleptocrats over the past 50 years, and as an excuse for certain world powers to start wars [direct and proxy]...;)

[Forrest]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

You must be one of those guys wearing $1000 suits? or you can go down to Men's Warehouse or Jos A Banks and get one for less than $500. What does that mean?

I'm afraid that in those other time periods, there were no discount houses for good suits of clothes of a similar quality.

When comparing prices of goods from time period to time period, it is well to use the same full retail pricing of the same quality goods. Do I have to look up several centuries of prices for a good Falerna in Italy to restate the case? Presuming they still make that wine...I'm not up to date.

In earlier days, wholesale stores, massive looms, and drop shipping were not an option, and back in 9ad, the Romans or Greeks would have thought such behavior beneath them.

I'm sure there were some people living on credit even then that were slicing and dicing deals for a simulated 'good' toga, but I thought leverage was to be used for business, or personal emergencies these days...or is there something about personal debt that you find invigorating?

[blazespinnaker]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

Alas, poor friend, it is only gold that doesn't get used up, that everyone holds onto, that century by century is the standard currency, because it is used as a portable and tradable store of wealth as well as a commodity.

Oil is great for trading, for use, for building wealth...not for currency.

If we could only look at all cost in terms of gold, which is real, and at paper currencies, which are only a "promise", as the false weights and measures they are, we could happily trade on and off the gold standard, and consequently, always know where we stand.

Gold is to volatile to be a currency. Gold is outlawed/taxed by nations.

Gold takes power away from government. That is an obvious fact to anyone. Betting on gold is betting against the house.

I *like* the house. I like government. I like having police, and fire, and security. DO I want to live in a country like Iraq or Russia with private security forces? No thanks!

What we need are SDRs. We don't need gold.

[Forrest]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

I'm afraid that in those other time periods, there were no discount houses for good suits of clothes of a similar quality.

When comparing prices of goods from time period to time period, it is well to use the same full retail pricing of the same quality goods. Do I have to look up several centuries of prices for a good Falerna in Italy to restate the case? Presuming they still make that wine...I'm not up to date.

In earlier days, wholesale stores, massive looms, and drop shipping were not an option, and back in 9ad, the Romans or Greeks would have thought such behavior beneath them.

I'm sure there were some people living on credit even then that were slicing and dicing deals for a simulated 'good' toga, but I thought leverage was to be used for business, or personal emergencies these days...or is there something about personal debt that you find invigorating?

Gold is to volatile to be a currency. Gold is outlawed/taxed by nations.

Gold takes power away from government. That is an obvious fact to anyone. Betting on gold is betting against the house.

I *like* the house. I like government. I like having police, and fire, and security. DO I want to live in a country like Iraq or Russia with private security forces? No thanks!

What we need are SDRs. We don't need gold.

Dear me! As a Liberal Constitutionalist, I like Government's powers to be strong where they are supposed to be according to the Constitution.

As a capitalist, I like open markets, and fair currency, which fiat currency is not, and gold is. You can have both, because there is money to be made in playing the markets, but I want my gold as my basic store of value.

As for SDR's...well, it's just I like my money to be a little less directly influenced by globalist intentions. The IMF is not a friendly bank, but a vulture waiting to feed on the underbelly of countries like Iceland, who got in over their heads. Still, they have some value...in theory. In reality, no value is set, and the big guys can eat the small ones with impugnity.

I like a slightly more level playing field, and a little less force being used. After all, we won't like it much when the United Nations forces a takeover of assets in a currency failure like Iceland's. The US is just as dangerously over-leveraged as Iceland...we just happen to import AND export goods, allowing us to keep a precarious balance. We also grow our own food.

The SDR is neither a currency, nor a claim on the IMF. Rather, it is a potential claim on the freely usable currencies of IMF members. Holders of SDRs can obtain these currencies in exchange for their SDRs in two ways: first, through the arrangement of voluntary exchanges between members; and second, by the IMF designating members with strong external positions to purchase SDRs from members with weak external positions. In addition to its role as a supplementary reserve asset, the SDR, serves as the unit of account of the IMF and some other international organizations. International Monetary Fund Factsheet, 8/27/09

My Fire Department is all volunteer...my neighbors. My security are my own guns, and those of my neighbors and friends, since the police are over 45 miles away to solve minor problems like theft and break-ins and assault.

Government supplied first responders are terrific in more city like atmospheres, and I don't mind paying taxes for them, so long as they lend us a hand when we need their airplanes and helicoptors, for a lost hiker, or to save a house from a brush fire. We like having the brush burn, otherwise. Private security forces are like radical militia's...way beyond my needs, or fears, but appropriate in dangerous places.

When little old ladies go to Vegas, they usually know to stay away from high stakes poker and craps, because you can lose a lot of money there if you don't know what you're doing. I find both fun, and slot machines a dead bore, but I do miss the days when financial consultants were not out to rape everyone's bank account...just each others.

[blazespinnaker]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

My Fire Department is all volunteer...my neighbors. My security are my own guns, and those of my neighbors and friends, since the police are over 45 miles away to solve minor problems like theft and break-ins and assault.

Exactly.. which is what this conversation is REALLY about. It's not about gold. It's about whether or not you trust government to have power to interfere when the crowd goes crazy (which is what central banks do, they tame the economic mob that panics with low rates .. something you can not do with gold).

Your description of yourself, while interesting, is certainly not globally applicable. Nothing personal, but I see you using anecdotal evidence (your own personal life) as a model for how things should run. Sorry but it doesn't scale up to 300 million people. Again, nothing personal.

[Forrest]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

Exactly.. which is what this conversation is REALLY about. It's not about gold. It's about whether or not you trust government to have power to interfere when the crowd goes crazy (which is what central banks do, they tame the economic mob that panics with low rates .. something you can not do with gold).

Your description of yourself, while interesting, is certainly not globally applicable. Nothing personal, but I see you using anecdotal evidence (your own personal life) as a model for how things should run. Sorry but it doesn't scale up to 300 million people. Again, nothing personal.

If I thought that the government would actually enforce the law as written, rather than submit it to an executive committee for a concensus, or take a bribe to look the other way, I wouldn't need gold as a store of wealth, since I could trust the government to back up their scrip. But I don't...no matter who's running it, and frankly, neither does anyone, anywhere, or they wouldn't own gold and silver.

Also, not living in a city, which is what I was describing so anecdotally, I don't think to turn to the government for help...there isn't much of any around, and even those within call, however long it might take, have wisely advised us to take care of what we can ourselves. And we do. There are some things that no one but the government does well, and that they should do. And the government does some things well, or we would have long since gotten rid of them.

Using my lifestyle as a model for 300 million people...well, why not? Our whole county used to put a shoulder to the same wheel together when necessary in the past, and we got a lot done. We could do it again, voluntarily, or as in merry olde England, pay someone to take our place if we didn't want to join in....wait, that sounds like taxes....oh no!!!!!

But I can see that an awful lot of people don't want to take responsibility for themselves, and turn over their liberty and money with their selfhood to government all too easily. I'd just like the ability to opt out of as much as possible. The first thing I'd opt out of would be Congress, the Presidency, and the Supreme Court...all too centralized and out of touch!

No harm done, Blaze...I rarely expect to be fully understood

[rjwjr]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

Exactly.. which is what this conversation is REALLY about. It's not about gold. It's about whether or not you trust government to have power to interfere when the crowd goes crazy (which is what central banks do, they tame the economic mob that panics with low rates .. something you can not do with gold).

Your description of yourself, while interesting, is certainly not globally applicable. Nothing personal, but I see you using anecdotal evidence (your own personal life) as a model for how things should run. Sorry but it doesn't scale up to 300 million people. Again, nothing personal.

For what it's worth, I found his description of himself and his situation very inspiring. That's the world I'd like to be living in as well. I believe it can scale up to 300 million people, one person at a time, each accepting personal responsibility for themselves, their family, their neighbor, and their community (in that order). I'm just baffled as to why Forrest lives in California...talk about being odd man out with those Constitutional Liberterian ideals in the land of Pelosi!

[ricket]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

in the land of Pelosi!

Yeah, because we all know she's the one responsible for the downfall of America...

[rjwjr]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

Yeah, because we all know she's the one responsible for the downfall of America...

Do you really want to put yourself in a position to defend Nancy Pelosi?! Maybe you should have thought a little longer before clicking the ol' Submit Reply button.

[jk]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

i guess no one is interested in the evolving role of gold in the global economy. much more fun to rehash ideological issues.:rolleyes: again. and again.

[metalman]

Re: dennis gartman: "gold's become the 3rd currency"

i guess no one is interested in the evolving role of gold in the global economy. much more fun to rehash ideological issues.:rolleyes: again. and again.

i'm with you, jk. think back to 2006. who woulda thunk the chinese will use the words 'gold' and 'monetary option' in the same sentance?